CO CO - Roger Ellison, 17, Cedaredge, 10 Feb 1981 #2

So happy to see a little bit of life in this thread. No clue if Pash is innocent or guilty but I definitely enjoy reading his posts!

prd2bokie said:

So happy to see a little bit of life in this thread. No clue if Pash is innocent or guilty but I definitely enjoy reading his posts!

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I enjoy them too. I wish more people who knew Roger in school knew about this thread and could tell us anything they heard in regard to his disappearance.

Anybody know anyone who was in the class in question with Roger? I call BS on the topic of the assignment being top secret.

I think that pash is guilty, he's like the criminal comes back to the scene of the crime to see what is going on and what people know. That's what he's doing here in my humble opinion .

Gtcomo said:

I think that pash is guilty, he's like the criminal comes back to the scene of the crime to see what is going on and what people know. That's what he's doing here in my humble opinion .

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Or, you know, he's innocent and trying to clear his name.


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Glad you feel that way, I think he's guilty

Gtcomo said:

Glad you feel that way, I think he's guilty

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What would you do if you were accused of murdering someone 36 years ago, without the slightest bit of evidence, and were still being accused of the crime? I'd speak up, too.

Why do you feel Pash is guilty?

Although the disappearance of Roger is technically "open" since he has not been found, I doubt it's what we would call "active". Unless someone comes forward with information or remembers something that would lead to other discoveries, I'm afraid we may not ever know what happened to him. So sad. This is one of those cases I would very much like to see solved.

BethAnn777 said:

Anybody know anyone who was in the class in question with Roger? I call BS on the topic of the assignment being top secret.

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The person that was said to last see him and talk to him in the hallway was my neighbor. I would love to pick his brain. I moved away 25 years ago and the neighbor was probably gone before that as he was quite a bit older than me. He would maybe have answers about the assignment etc assuming he had the same class. Do we know if others in the class can corroborate the secret assignment ?



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I could understand law enforcement keeping Roger's answers to the assignment secret, but the topic of the assignment is not exactly a secret if the whole class received the same topic to write about. Granted, few if any of Roger's classmates might remember the topic of the assignment. I can only recall a couple of topics we were asked to write about in school back in the 80s, so unless there was some reason for the topic to stand out in their minds they may not remember it.

When I was in school most of us kids would not have written something deeply personal in a school essay, but I get the idea that Roger did. Knowing the topic of the assignment might not even help us since we don't know what Roger's answers were. But I don't see why anyone would be bound to secrecy regarding the topic of the assignment. I don't know how many kids were in his class but in my small town 1980s classes there were usually 20-30, so we know approximately that many other students would have been aware of the topic at the time.

I like that Pash posts on here. I do find it his comments a bit acerbic and patronising, but his name is in question so I can see why. In the spirit of websleuths, all ideas, no matter how far fetched should be explored. Often, a thought or idea, leads to different ideas...So I disagree with Pash bashing Satch as Satch is level-headed, fair, and respectful of all posters ideas.

First, just because a teacher had a nickname and was an outsider in the town, it does not make him a prime suspect. We all had teachers we didn't like, that were weird, that we regrettably made fun of, that smelled...the list goes on and on. Children and young adults can be mean spirited, so rumours, are rumours. I think if there was something with Pash, it would have come up by now. And if Pash knows something, he is not at liberty to discuss it. That does not make him guilty. In hindsight, I am certain, with the better mental health education we have today, that Pash should have reported this depression and social ideation immediately. There were not protools for that, but I would imagine based on how this has deeply impacted Pash's life and with the mental health awareness we have now, that he would have. That's not guilt though. And honestly, if a teenager divulged he was suicidal, as they are self-absorbed, reactionary, and impulsive and Pash didn't look at those assignments immediately (to a teen this is right now), he could have easily taken that as dejection or lack of caring. Remember teens don't think like rational adults, especially when under distress. He could have panicked and wished to take the assignments back...and a as a teen if seemed the last straw...

So...
1) We all think there is something relevant in the assignment. Pash can't speak of it due to legal advice. But, my guess is if there were leads in this assignment based on his answers, it would have been eventually revealed if it was based on typical teen things-Suicide, Sexuality, Pregnant Girlfriend, Not Graduating on Time, or joining a Hare Krishna group. All of those, over time, would have become more culturally normative to speak of and eventually leaked. Especially with both parents passed away...

If there is something in those assignments involving high ranking officials, I would imagine the majority are dead, retired, or have moved on. First and foremost, who is going to believe a high school kid instead of say the mayor, police chief, or other officials? It just seems, unless he had some pretty concrete evidence and "informed" other adult people, besides in a school assignment, it would be easy to dismiss. Even if it was allegations of doping or faked urine tests, it would be easy to project it back on him saying he was being a sore loser, etc. We are talking about a teen taking on educated adults, it is easy to see who would come out ahead.

Is it possible he was showing signs of depression and perhaps paranoia associated with a mental illness. Thus the accusations or what ever topic he wrote of. Hell, he could have been convinced they were a pedophile gang or were implanting tracking chips in people. Who knows. While it might have been damning, it really doesn't seem the evidence or support from an adult were backing him. As a student, I was involved in sports, skiing, track, swimming, and you learn the process of interacting with adults to problem solve as a norm. So, for no-one to know, seems strange. It could indicate a mental health issue if he could no longer trust the adults around him. And he could have gone on a "mission" and inadvertently got himself killed. A fall, drowning, etc. trying to get away. We have to remember this is a teenager, so he does not have the adult thought-processes we can apply to his situation. The link below discusses the case and says Roger smoked pot. Marijauna can make certain people very paranoid.

His parents say he was acting strangely prior to the disappearance, and while he might have been going through the motions of planning the future, he could have been increasingly disillusioned as everything he worked for seemed anticlimactic. Add some pot and that becomes deeper depression and paranoia. If he wrote he was suicidal, it should be taken seriously as that could have been the outcome. Coming from a small town where you are lucky to fill a football team with enough kids, every kid is talented and a star athlete. This can lead to a serious wake-up call when you move to a bigger city or university and see true competition. Going from excellence to mediocrity can be very depressing. He had a lot of work to do to achieve the ski team, that could have been daunting. Hero to zero in a way. Do we even know if this was his dream? What he planned for his life?

Did he return all of his school books? I don't know what the weather was like, but he seemed very underdressed. As a skier he knew about layers and hypothermia. Was the start of him not carrying about the outcome?

I don't know about the poacher story. We would need more information. What was this man dying of? Was he delusional? People who are dying sometimes lose linear time. Was this a incident that occurred in, say, vietnam or WWII, that was intrusive during the dying process. That is very common. Yes, it would be true, the timeline might not be. Did his buddy collaborate to give the dying man his peace, even though it may have been a different time? Too many questions with that. And picking Roger out in a line up, again, he would be a familiar face. But, the other piece is , where was Roger supposedly kept from disappearing until this time? Honestly, this could have been a misplaced war or other memory, very normal in the many stages of the dying process.





Thoughts?

https://findrogerellison.wordpress.com/inside-a-reporters-notebook/

dogperson said:

When I was in school most of us kids would not have written something deeply personal in a school essay, but I get the idea that Roger did. .

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BBM. I actually had a couple high school papers that I wrote very personal information on, and it turned out they were to be read in class. Devastating and horrible feeling. Guess who was ill that day?

LucyOso said:

BBM. I actually had a couple high school papers that I wrote very personal information on, and it turned out they were to be read in class. Devastating and horrible feeling. Guess who was ill that day?

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Oh no, that's terrible! Did the teacher make the students read their essays aloud or did the teacher read them aloud? A thing like that can be horrible for a teen or child.

dogperson said:

Oh no, that's terrible! Did the teacher make the students read their essays aloud or did the teacher read them aloud? A thing like that can be horrible for a teen or child.

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Is there a possibility he thought the assignment would be read aloud? Teens are very reactionary and impulsive. They are very short-sighted...

I believe the deathbed confession of the poacher. The two poachers did not swear each other to secrecy all those years ago because they were afraid of getting caught for poaching. They swore each other to secrecy because they saw a young man held at gunpoint and heard one or more gunshots moments later. I think they recognized whoever was holding the young man, and they were terrified for their safety and the safety of their families. Cedaredge is a small town, and I'm sure everybody knows everybody.

The law has traditionally placed a lot of stock in death-bed confessions. The assumption is that you are confessing to unburden your soul and prepare yourself for the hereafter. Also, there is the belief that you have no reason to lie, and that what your are confessing to has to have been been dire or important enough for you to hide it all these years. I'm thinking about the scenario: a man is dying of cancer and decides to tell the police about something he remembers seeing decades previous. Seriously, would this dying man haul a police man in in order to make up a confession? And, either he or his long-ago poaching partner submitted to a lie detector test. Would you confess to something made up and then take a lie detector test, or subject your old friend/partner to a lie detector test? There is just no motive to lie in a situation like this.

Because of all these factors, I place a lot of stock in the poacher's story, especially because his friend corroborated it, too. And, the guy's story must have been credible to the police, or they would have dismissed it and we would never have heard about it.

In fact, where on earth did we learn about the deathbed confession? From the police or from a news story? Interesting...

I believe it too. If I were on my death bed why would I make up something like that? At those times I would imagine only important things are said. Did this confessor give a name of the alleged gunmen ? Did he give specific details of where this occurred? Just wondering if it was detailed enough that authorities could search a specific area for any remains or evidence? I I remember reading about it but cannot recall that specifically.


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From what I remember, I don't think he named any names, or if he did the police certainly would not make it public.

pitkrew said:

I believe it too. If I were on my death bed why would I make up something like that? At those times I would imagine only important things are said. Did this confessor give a name of the alleged gunmen ? Did he give specific details of where this occurred? Just wondering if it was detailed enough that authorities could search a specific area for any remains or evidence? I I remember reading about it but cannot recall that specifically.


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Thats a good point. But, I do know that the death and dying process can be fascinating. Depending on the type of cancer he had, he could have had brain mets. Meaning while he was genuinely resolving something that occurred in the past the details could be over-lapped or confused. Do we know the "confessors" background? Was he a veteran? Often in the dying process chronological thinking and events get blurred. If the poacher was a veteran and had cancer there is a very good chance he could be recalling a war event and mixing disturbing memories. And his buddy could agree with him to help him pass with peace. I just can't imagine adult men would let someone get slaughtered and run away to spare themselves a $100-500 fine. Seems not inline with the hunting culture or mountain people. IMOO.

I find it telling that, officially, at least, the LE still maintain that he (Roger) was murdered shortly after he disappeared, probably be someone he knew. To my knowledge, that official position has never changed. The poacher's story did not seem to change that opinion. If it wasn't accidental, then "by someone he knew" does not seem a far leap. And it does not necessarily disagree with the poacher's story. What is interesting, further back in these entries, someone claiming to live in Cedaredge, states that her grandfather he is a hunter states that at that time of year, and the elevation of the general area, deer would not be found. Were the poachers uninformed, or up to something else?

msmithca858 said:

I find it telling that, officially, at least, the LE still maintain that he (Roger) was murdered shortly after he disappeared, probably be someone he knew. To my knowledge, that official position has never changed. The poacher's story did not seem to change that opinion. If it wasn't accidental, then "by someone he knew" does not seem a far leap. And it does not necessarily disagree with the poacher's story. What is interesting, further back in these entries, someone claiming to live in Cedaredge, states that her grandfather he is a hunter states that at that time of year, and the elevation of the general area, deer would not be found. Were the poachers uninformed, or up to something else?

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Could they have been making moonshine or dealing drugs? And if they were poaching, perhaps it wasn't deer. What else is on that mountain?


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