GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #3

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Have dry cleaners near the parent's home or Jenna's apt or any of the stops on the map been contacted to see if they have possession of the tapestry?
Sorry if I'm repeating questions answers. I've been following since the beginning, but things do get muddled after a while.

This is that one thing that I know Occam's Razor says should be part and parcel of her disappearance, but I think there is a tiny chance it is not. So little care was taken into turning off lights and TV that it seems almost ridiculous that someone would take such good care then to rehang the frame and wipe it down. Wipe it down, maybe. Rehang it? Why bother. Plus, moving the furniture around to get it down and back up. But if Jenna herself had been irresponsible with the tapestry would she have sent it to a cleaners? Would she even know to do that? Would she possibly just disposed of it and hung it back up, meaning to tell her parents about the oopsie when they returned home. And someone DID help her, but now that she is missing that person does not want to come forward and get into the middle of this mess since it was immediately assumed whomever has the tapestry also has Jenna?

Just musing out loud here...
 
I wonder if the tapestry case was broken at the party or the tapestry was removed at the party on 8/17. I am not sure there is any easy explanation for it being part of Jenna's alleged return to her parents house on the night of 8/18 when the car switch was done.

Was Jenna very attached to the buffet cover, Subie? Would she have taken it with her if she was headed somewhere for the short or long term?
 
I was asked to offer some suggestions and I've been trying to read through it but it's just soooo long and a lot of folks are repeating the same thing again and again.

I'm not going to point fingers or attach any relevance to anything but I will tell you that folks can and do hide things. We think we know all about someone, even a family member, and suddenly we find out we really never knew much about them in the first place. Looking at the entire thread with neutral eyes, the below is my take.

First, starting at the beginning, there was a bunch of mentions about how this person was very loud about not using drugs. I'll just quote some Shakespeare here.... "methinks thou doth protest to much...." One thing that sets off the alarm is someone who makes a big deal of how innocent, etc they are. Yes, they could be but normally anything above or beyond a certain level just sets off the bogus meter. With the huge opioid issue affecting this country, I hesitate to say someone isn't using. People you would never suspect. So for me, the strength attributed to her not using, plus the missing money raises a red flag that this may not be totally accurate. Yes, she could have been stealing for someone else but lacking that data I would have to say it was for her personal benefit.

Second, People are allowed to go missing in this country. Much has been made mention of the autism spectrum but she is clearly an adult functioning and performing all the adult things and clearly knows enough on how to conceal or hide things as evidenced by the other cell phone and such. It may not always be what you or I would chose to do, or what the family would like but people are allowed to do what they desire.

Her car was clearly dumped, so how did the driver get picked up? In today's society, no one walks anywhere if they can get a ride. But the car is also very visible and gets noticed so I see why someone decides to get rid of it.

One of the things I was taught to do when you get stuck working a search is to stop building. You cycle stuff back to zero and start again as if you never started. Throw out what you were told. Trust your dog and what it does. Take what the dog does and bounce that off what you were told. Not the other way around. Don't assume anything you were told is true. During an investigation, cops hold things close to the vest as they don't want to miss something or clue someone off. Forums such as this are read by everyone. Good guys, bad guys, and everyone in between. Information is withheld or circumstances changed. Only if the information can be independently validated would I trust it. In these cases, I remember the following saying: When you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras.

What I'm thinking is that Jenna is missing of her own volition. She actively assisted with this. For whatever reason, she has decided to disappear and she had help. Maybe it was the family involvement in her life, maybe it was the going to court over the stolen money. Maybe it was someone voicing the idea and her agreeing to it. Maybe it was her way of shedding her skin and starting off somewhere new in a place where people don't know her. People who are actively evading or actively assisting in their own disappearance are the hardest ones to locate. They are the most knowledgeable to know what to avoid and what to change to 'disappear'. The missing tapestry, carefully removed and the frame rehung, tells me someone took that for personal reasons. Either sentimental or for remembrance. Trying to sell it presents a host of problems and it's easily remembered so I don't see that showing up in a pawn shop any time soon.

What I don't know is if Jenna's getting exactly what she wanted. Best of intentions and all that. We have all seen people get a great idea and then realizing it's not turning out the way they expected (or desired) and not being able to break free. But my gut feeling at this point in time is that she set this chain of events in motion. She actively, willing, participated. Friends may be covering for her especially if they feel it is helping her. If Jenna feels her family is the problem then they will help keep the family from finding her until something doesn't feel right anymore. The car was dumped because it wasn't needed anymore. Other means of transportation have been established. I will also say that these kind of investigations can be a slog-fest. A quick flurry of information and then nothing. Leads are chased down, people develop a guilty conscious. It's not unknown for investigations to take months or even years.

I think folks need to change their perspectives. This may not be an abduction but a voluntary absence. Bounce the information off of that for a while.
Thank you for posting. I'm always fascinated by posts from people with a lot of experience in these situations.

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That certainly does seem very pointed. How do they know the sightings are actually false? Are you saying that this individual has reported sightings of Jenna to the family, LE has checked them out and deemed them false- and this individual continues to make contact with the family, citing sightings?
If that is the situation, it seems that is harassment and interference with an active investigation, and the family ought to possibly pursue a no contact order. I'm no attorney, but I think that's what I would do.
Sorry, must have missed something, but what sightings are false that we are talking about? How do we know they are false?
Eta - I see that is what you are asking too.
 
Has the lead regarding the morningside apartment on the 18th been checked out does anyone know?
 
Two additional thoughts:

A. I wonder if anything has ever been mentioned about the club tongue and groove? It is located at lindberg right by the marta station and had a solar eclipse party on 8-18. Jenna "liked" this club on her facebook in 2 different places.

B. Could all of this driving around that we think happened late at night just be her and her friend riding around looking for an apartment? The apartment she messaged a girl about on the Atlanta Housing group is within a mile of family dog according to the post. Here's a screenshot of that area approximately as well as a screenshot of the whole area to put it in context. Maybe she found an apartment and is dead set on moving away and being on her own? Hopefully? Better than other scenarios. Also family dog is right on morningside where the woman who spotted her car was from, most likely a coincidence though. I just don't know why you would go to a gym all the way over in the upper westside and why a car on a side street would bother you.

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Both are excellent points - I have asked about this morningside apartment and also noted that the woman who reported her car was from morningside too. Perhaps J's car hadn't been there that long. Did LE ask her how long it had been parked there?
 
I'd like to go back to the Google timeline and the gas stops. My recollection is that one had a time of 11 p.m. and one was tied to Wendy's at 10 p.m. How were those times established? Were the other two before or after them (based on the debit card statement or witnesses or cctv)? It seems to me that LE and two PI's should at least have that info by now.
 
Ooooo i cant remember, i think it was the whole seat.... anyone?

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Maybe the whole seat and nothing but the seat . What do you think of the possibility J or someone had just parked there for some errands that day and someone reported it to LE ? It does almost seem like that, the way it was found with the purse the suitcase and the keys in it don't you think? Otherwise surely it would have been stolen pretty quickly if it had been parked for any length of time?
 
According to police no resemblance. Only thing that was close was the green tshirt she was wearing.

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I have to say I feel for you all with this sighting, family and friends. The friend may have been mistaken but the green T-shirt is a weird coincidence as well as the driver being a student at the university right near to your parents house.
I don't suppose she could have enrolled at the uni with a false /new id? Just a thought but it is obviously just me speculating.
 
Hate to hop in on the backend and maybe this has already been suggested in the threads I haven't read through just yet...but what if she wasn't being extorted? What if the money she was sending was in fact to disappear of her own volition and was going to a friend or acquaintance?

Also on the "start a new life" thread of thinking. New job. Pays well. Anyone can do it if you just work hard. ya da ya da...those are things I would definitely look for when moving and having to find a new job. That's how I ended up in sales when I thought it was really finance. It's also how a naive young woman could end up being trafficked.
That's an interesting point. So even the stolen money from the pet store job do you mean? Squirrelling it away for the future? That would mean an accomplice.
 
I have to say I feel for you all with this sighting, family and friends. The friend may have been mistaken but the green T-shirt is a weird coincidence as well as the driver being a student at the university right near to your parents house.
I don't suppose she could have enrolled at the uni with a false /new id? Just a thought but it is obviously just me speculating.

The driver being an Emory student doesn't seem weird IMO. There are a lot of students around in the area. Emory is a private university, so I think it's pretty unlikely that she enrolled there unless someone else is footing the bill. I Googled for tuition costs, and it looks like it's at least $45k/year.
 
Also I hate to be critical but Jenna enrolling at Emory is a very high bar. Look up their average ACT and SAT. It's a fairly hard school to get into. She would've had to apply last fall most likely.
 
The driver being an Emory student doesn't seem weird IMO. There are a lot of students around in the area. Emory is a private university, so I think it's pretty unlikely that she enrolled there unless someone else is footing the bill. I Googled for tuition costs, and it looks like it's at least $45k/year.
I didn't say the driver being an Emory student was weird. I said it was a weird coincidence (the green t shirt and because parents house is right next to Emory). Point taken about the fees but still is a strange coincidence IMO.
 
Does anyone know anything more about the specifics of what type/where Jenna was looking for apartments? Such as studios, one bedroom, two bedroom, pet friendly, smoking/non smoking etc? The roommate situation seems huge- both whether or not she knew potential roommates, or whether she was meeting up with potential new ones who were unknown to her, or both.
How strict is that housing market, would someone have to co-sign a lease for her? Would $$ down and a security deposit be something Jenna's mom and dad might help with? The career counseling service- is that also lifestyle, housing, etc? Do they have bulletin boards, either physical or virtual? Are there missing posters up in those locations? Any locals or perhabs subie have info on that?
 
Also I hate to be critical but Jenna enrolling at Emory is a very high bar. Look up their average ACT and SAT. It's a fairly hard school to get into. She would've had to apply last fall most likely.
Criticism is fine. She got a degree from Gwinnett - would that not have been enough to qualify then ?
 
<modsnip> My theory is that she was last seen at Dynasty Lounge driven there by someone else (person she spent friday evening with). What happened after that who knows - left with someone and planned to get car later, nabbed on the street on her way out, accident at the club. Someone knows something and are not saying.
 
Does anyone know anything more about the specifics of what type/where Jenna was looking for apartments? Such as studios, one bedroom, two bedroom, pet friendly, smoking/non smoking etc? The roommate situation seems huge- both whether or not she knew potential roommates, or whether she was meeting up with potential new ones who were unknown to her, or both.
How strict is that housing market, would someone have to co-sign a lease for her? Would $$ down and a security deposit be something Jenna's mom and dad might help with? The career counseling service- is that also lifestyle, housing, etc? Do they have bulletin boards, either physical or virtual? Are there missing posters up in those locations? Any locals or perhabs subie have info on that?

Both are excellent points - I have asked about this morningside apartment and also noted that the woman who reported her car was from morningside too. Perhaps J's car hadn't been there that long. Did LE ask her how long it had been parked there?

Has the lead regarding the morningside apartment on the 18th been checked out does anyone know?
Am bumping my posts and Oriah's re the room/apartment leads that may still need following up and expanding upon.
 
Thanks shiressleuth I really feel the housing situation is important to thoroughly investigate. I think there's a good chance that Jenna was sort of living out of her suitcase/vehicle for a little bit prior to house sitting, and perhaps she didn't want her family to know that, and that's why she has been a bit cagey about her living situation.
 
Criticism is fine. She got a degree from Gwinnett - would that not have been enough to qualify then ?

On paper yes. In reality no. I taught at a school similar to Jenna's high school for 5 years. I coached against her school. Her degree from Gwinnett was an associates so she would have entered for the last two years of a bachelors but in all likelihood Emory would not have accepted any of those credits so most likely a new 4 year journey and Emory is very competitive.
 
Definitely not saturated - not even close. There were some printouts on their door and neighbors' doors, but when I drove by the other day, nothing. We no longer see them in shop windows either. Absolutely no coverage from local media, which is appalling IMHO.
I agree with this. Yesterday on my way home I stopped by the pet store where she used to work and the grocery store adjacent, both to pick up some things on the way home from work. No flyer visible in either place. I have only seen one flyer posted anywhere in Atlanta and Decatur, and I drive through most of the significant locations in this case almost daily.
 
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