TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #1

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enelram said:
You'd be surprised at how many youngsters get medicated because their teachers at school suggest they be tested
for misbehaving at school. So often it begins with the schools and it 'could' be to make the teacher's job easier.

But, by the time the child is acting out at school, the parent is playing catch-up for many years of ignoring the problems at home. IMO, most behavior problems begin at home. And IMO, the parents are most times responsible whether
it comes out or they deny it. Could be negligent parents, abusive parents, hyper-religious parents and many more causes. But I firmly believe it starts in the home.
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As a former teacher, I actually wouldn't be surprised. But, have to also say, this was NOT my experience, personally. In my experience it was the rare parent whose negligence and obliviousness was the cause of their child's being prescribed (or over-prescribed) medication by middle school. (And if they had been the negligent sort, they likely would not have shown up for the PT conference discussing their child's performance.) While I listened to the parents' concerns, I never advised parents to test their kids for ADD or to pursue medicating them--not my area of expertise, and it would have been overstepping my professional bounds. The kids I knew about who were medicated had their diagnoses before coming to my class, anyway--most often because the behavior had come up at home first.

Later, as a parent of at least one 'lively' and distractible child, I also did not get medical or prescription advice from any teacher. Though we had more than the average number of PT conferences, no teacher ever advised us to medicate or take him to a doctor, though we did end up taking him to several. (His particular issues were neurologically-based, observed by preschool age, and I pursued this on my own due to sensing this was not simply a 'behavioral' issue.)

JMO, IMO and in my experience; others may differ.
 
MsFacetious said:
I had seen that...
It appears the MIL and the wife's sister are safe. I guess we just assume the wife and kids are too?
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I wish LE would just say, "Yes, wife and kids are safe. Please leave them alone." Just one word they are safe would be so nice at this point.

jmo
 
Inthedetails said:
Fine-tuning the details on his targeting locals on Facebook:

"Devin Patrick Kelley spent the months before his attack 'starting drama' with strangers on Facebook — and he specifically targeted people from 'within 20 minutes' of the population-400 town where he committed Sunday’s heinous attack, according to resident Johnathan Castillo."

http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/texas-shooter-trolled-town-on-facebook-before-attack/

What's weird is that it seems like he was specifically targeting his MIL/inlaws, but his Facebook provocations were against the community in general. ??

jmo
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Very interesting, 20 minutes....
 
vmmking said:
A community this small may have been very protective of one of their own and helped her escape him, earning his ire. I came from a town that small, and that's what I suspect.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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Yes and I wonder if, because of problems with his ex and ex MIL , he could no longer attend that church. ??
 
Inthedetails said:
I wish LE would just say, "Yes, wife and kids are safe. Please leave them alone." Just one word they are safe would be so nice at this point.

jmo
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Yes and I wish someone would delete her facebook too.
 
Senator Ted Cruz speaking in Sutherland Springs now on CNN.
 
enelram said:
Yes and I wonder if, because of problems with his ex and ex MIL , he could no longer attend that church. ??
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Did anyone have an order of protection keeping him away? Because that would do it.
 
kaen said:
I am just catching up but the idea that he served twelve months for fracturing a child's skull and does not have a felony conviction speaks to something being wrong in the military justice system. He was able to get out become a security guard, was able to buy weapons. I am more than a little horrified.
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I am no expert, but the military justice system can be tricky.

There can be administrative charges (even for serious matters) administrative confessions and administrative punishments. Likewise, there can be formal judicial charges, confessions and judicial convictions. Some defendants may have elements of both in their cases.

Like everything, the military justice system has strengths and weaknesses. A strength is that it can punish losers for criminal actions with out the need for a formal, "beyond a reasonable doubt" type conviction.
 
margarita25 said:
Imo this is much more than a "domestic situation"...he could've targeted them when they were alone, not surrounded by others. This is classic mass shooter and no different from any of all the other coward mass shooters, moo.
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We see a pattern of behaviour though. It increases a little over time. No, I don't think it's a "domestic situation" but I do think that this time, he became so enraged that he wanted to destroy something that may have had meaning to his mil. How do you think she's feeling right now? I'd be second guessing myself all over the place. I'd even probably have some survivor's guilt going on if my sil shot up a church I attended after having it out with me in a text rant. I'd figure he'd thought I'd be there. I feel for her, and his, families, too, in addition to the entire little town. Everyone had to nearly know everyone.
 
kaen said:
The law is very clear about suggesting or coercing or forcing families to medicate their children. Legally, schools cannot require a child to take medication. Any decisions about medication are the sole purview of the family and their medical professionals.

If the school staff believe a child is showing signs of a condition that might benefit from medication,they can suggest that he be evaluated to see if he qualifies for special education. They’re allowed to describe the behaviors they’re seeing. They can say how your child’s behavior is negatively affecting his learning. But they are not allowed to even bring up medication. Suggesting medication is out of the school's purview as they are not doctors.

On another note, how did this man become a security guard? He was not honorably discharged and had served time for domestic violence. People who knew him experienced character issues. This scenario could have also played out in the resort where he had access to emergency plans and communication systems.
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I hate to say it, as it does not apply to all security guards of course, but commonly imo some of these nut jobs become security guards because they can't become cops. And they want the power/sense of authority, etc that cops have.
 
rsd1200 said:
We see a pattern of behaviour though. It increases a little over time. No, I don't think it's a "domestic situation" but I do think that this time, he became so enraged that he wanted to destroy something that may have had meaning to his mil. How do you think she's feeling right now? I'd be second guessing myself all over the place. I'd even probably have some survivor's guilt going on if my sil shot up a church I attended after having it out with me in a text rant. I'd figure he'd thought I'd be there. I feel for her, and his, families, too, in addition to the entire little town. Everyone had to nearly know everyone.
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I think some of it also has to do with him maybe wanting her, the MIL, etc, to maybe see the horror of those dying around her, and/or hurting the people she loves and congregated with.

Eta:

Just seeing this post:

Inthedetails said:
MIL wasn't in church, but his wife's grandmother was, and she was killed. :(

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...grandmother-church-shooting-article-1.3615014
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My point exactly...
 
Cryptic said:
Do you have a link for this?

The Times article states that he admitted that the facts were accurate. This may not constitute a formal conviction. Likewise, it could well be possible for the military to sentence people to confinement without a formal conviction (administrative punishment).
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I'm not sure how much more clear the link can be:

COLORADO SPRINGS — Before a 26-year-old gunman entered a rural Texaschurch with a ballistic vest and a military-style rifle, killing at least 26 people on Sunday, he was convicted of assaulting his wife and breaking his infant stepson’s skull.
In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Devin P. Kelley, 26, was charged with “assault on his spouse and assault on their child,” according to the Air Force.
“He assaulted his stepson severely enough that he fractured his skull, and he also assaulted his wife,” said Don Christensen, a retired colonel who was the chief prosecutor for the Air Force. “He pled to intentionally doing it.”
He was sentenced in November of that year to 12 months’ confinement and reduction to the lowest possible rank. After his confinement, he was discharged from the military with a bad conduct discharge. It is unclear whether his conviction would have barred him from purchasing a gun.
 
margarita25 said:
I hate to say it, as it does not apply to all security guards of course, but commonly imo some of these nut jobs become security guards because they can't become cops. And they want the power/sense of authority, etc that cops have.
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Yes, I agree. In my area, they call them Rent-A-Cops cuz the sec. guards act like puffed up LE.
 
Cryptic said:
Do you have a link for this?

The Times article states that he admitted that the facts were accurate. This may not constitute a formal conviction. Likewise, it could well be possible for the military to sentence people to confinement without a formal conviction (administrative punishment).

Because I know for a fact that military court martial cases can have some twists and that they do not always follow the civilian format.

Rather, they can have an administrative adjudication of guilt / punishment, a formal adjudication of guilt / punishment, and / or a combination of both. As to whether or not DK was formally convicted, I don't know. That is why I am asking for a link.

How familiar are you with military court martials?
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Pretty familiar. In a case I had the opposing party was charged, convicted and sentenced. I'm aware of some of the terminology. There is nothing to suggest this was administrative.
 
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