TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

bluesneakers said:

It's just the same anecdotal evidence we've heard for years - violent TV, rock music, scary movies, the evening news, etc. People think it makes sense those things lead to violence even though there's no actual proof. And yes, other countries have all the same stuff so why don't they have the same rates of violent crime? I live in Canada where there is access to everything Americans get, yet mass shootings are virtually unheard of and the murder rate is much lower than the USA. Horror movies from Scandinavia are the worst I've ever seen but look at their low crime rates.

It makes you think.

Click to expand...

I believe some people are just born "bad". Doesn't matter if they were exposed to Bugs Bunny watching Elmer Fudd blow his face off, a violent war video game, or not exposed to anything of a violent sort, some humans are just wired for finding satisfaction in inflicting pain and death.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/...-shooting-required-accuracy-and-sympathy.html

This is an interesting inside view into media reporting about tragedies such as this shooting, and their initial reliance on twitter and Facebook.

Bernina said:

I believe some people are just born "bad". Doesn't matter if they were exposed to Bugs Bunny watching Elmer Fudd blow his face off, a violent war video game, or not exposed to anything of a violent sort, some humans are just wired for finding satisfaction in inflicting pain and death.

Click to expand...

You believe it, but I wonder if you have a link to a study or some research? I'm open-minded and curious.

Bill Carson said:

I heard an expert say---and I believe him---that DK wasn't suffering from mental illness, but a personality disorder---he was a psychopath.

I think the difference is that a mental illness is something that develops and could be treated or cured, but a personality disorder is a condition that one is born with, and while a person might learn to adapt, they can never be "cured." In this sense, it is like Austism Spectrum Disorder.

Click to expand...

I agree that sounds right and why no one could seek help for him. But, it can be managed with therapy and treatment but can you force an adult to seek help? So what do we do about psychopaths?

margarita25 said:

Interesting, and thanks for posting, bluesneakers. I'm always grateful and interested in having an intelligent, respectful discussion which considers all angles.

Upon more googling, it seems there are are many others who agree with these studies you posted as well. But there are also converse opinions, etc., and imo maybe more research is needed. (I don't want to sway the thread too o/t, but I do think it's appropriate for this aspect to enter the discussion, because in the long run hopefully we are here to help find solutions, etc):

"In reviewing more than 150 research papers, the task force found a consistent relationship between the games and an increase in "aggressive behavior" as well as a decrease in "prosocial behavior, empathy, and sensitivity to aggression" and that this behavior continued for some time.

Violent video games: Expert weighs in on "vulnerable" children

But the task force also found that the video games alone can't explain this aggression. Rather, it concluded that the "accumulation of risk factors," such as antisocial behavior, depression, trouble at home, delinquency or academic problems, also played a role.

"The research reviewed here demonstrates that violent video game use is one such risk factor," the report concluded.

The findings are unlikely to put to rest the concerns about violent video games, especially given that over 90 percent of children play video games, with 85 percent of those games containing some violence. The games*came under fire in 2012 after Adam Lanza gunned down 20 children and six teachers Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut. It later turned out that he was obsessed with violent video games, prompting calls from some members of Congress for restrictions on them.

Ohio State University's Brad J. Bushman, who has done extensive work on violent media including games and aggression, said he disagreed with the APA conclusion that there is no link between violent video games and violent behavior, although he acknowledged it is difficult to prove a link in an experimental setting."

Do violent video games lead to criminal behavior?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-violent-video-games-lead-to-criminal-behavior/

Click to expand...

BBMs: and, IMO- a child's mind is VERY impressionable. I grew up in a high tech household, high fidelity stereo turntable and awesome speakers, and eventually a Sony Trinitron TV with rabbit ears to get the nine or ten channels available. ... Phone on the wall, etc...

Saturday mornings was cartoon time in pajamas. Laying like little beached seals on the floor two feet in front of the TV, my sisters and I delighted in Wile E Coyote getting obliterated at every turn... We delighted in the 'Eh, what's up Doc?' of the smartest bunny in the world. And we used to mimic Boris & Natasha in their epic Cold War spy games on Bullwinkle. Violence was no stranger in cartoon land.

I think a major difference for children is the dissemination of reality vs. fantasy. I have friends who in the 90's banished technology when their kids were young for the very reason of the realistic depiction of violence vs the cartoon as entertainment for children.

Fast forward to my life the late 60's, early 70's, and to a point: when the images of the Vietnam carnage was broadcast, in delayed real time on the news, I literally lost my breath. I could not breathe due to the shock. I'll never forget having to go outside to try to calm my hyperventilation. The reality of what we all were witnessing was an apocalypse.

So, to my next point... And I am no Tipper Gore either, we can do all the science, and the majority of kids are just fine because racy and violent has been around for a long time, in literature, music, opera, theatre, etc...

But one thing is new... How many kids have watched an actual beheading, the take downs of big game hunters, the flooding of *advertiser censored* into the mainstream? And, what does that do to a shy, troubled, perhaps isolated child? What happens when peer pressure kicks in to 'keep up with the now'?

I have no answers. Because I do believe it is a humanitarian issue. But I do have the observations and concerns of my crossover tech generation as we are all grandparents, now. And, loss of innocence keeps returning to me. You are only innocent for such a brief time on this earth. And I feel like "we" in our collective quest for bigger, faster, greater, have deprived our kids of this very brief moment on earth.

vmmking said:

So he got suspended for horseplay, but not groping a girl.

Again, I say that crimes against women are not taken seriously enough.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Never are. I had to punch my attacker at school since, they refused to suspend him for assaulting me. After I punched him in front of his guy friends he left me alone. I wounded his ego. But, why do schools allow sexual harassment?.

Psychopathic Brain 'Lacks Basic Hardwiring' To Feel Compassion, Research Suggests

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...ath-brain-cant-feel-compassion_n_3151538.html

Participants underwent brain scans while being shown videos of people being intentionally hurt and others of faces reacting to pain.

The results of the functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scans showed distinct differences in the brain responses of highly psychopathic and non-psychopathic individuals.

Most people flinch from seeing others in pain or distress - which serves a useful social purpose, the scientists pointed out.

They wrote in their paper: "The neural response to distress of others such as pain is thought to reflect an aversive response in the observer that may act as a trigger to inhibit aggression or prompt motivation to help.

"Hence, examining the neural response of individuals with psychopathy as they view others being harmed or expressing pain is an effective probe into the neural processes underlying affective and empathy deficits in psychopathy."

Excellent posts Cariis #740 and Rosemadderlake #745. Thanks!

Rsd1200 Thank you for explaining so clearly what your son experiences. He’s very fortunate to have you.

x_files said:

I agree that sounds right and why no one could seek help for him. But, it can be managed with therapy and treatment but can you force an adult to seek help? So what do we do about psychopaths?

Click to expand...

For all we know, DK may have been receiving mental health treatment.

Maybe you followed the Liknes/O'Brien murder case of grandparents and their 5 year old grandson from Calgary? Douglas Garland was eventually convicted and the only apparent motive was he held a grudge involving a business relationship from several years prior. Garland was attending weekly psychiatrist appointments at the time.

Psychiatry is of no benefit unless the patient is cooperative and truly seeking help. Some just do it to appease family members and to give them false hope...

Might mass shooting be the new serial killing?

Article from 2013:

Report From Homeland Security Details 'Commonalities' In Mass Shootings
January 30, 2013
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...urity-details-commonalities-in-mass-shootings

Commentary:*6 things to know about mass shootings
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-mass-shootings-1003-story.html

Active Shooter Resources (many links at this page)
https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships/office-of-partner-engagement/active-shooter-resources

Making Prevention a Reality: Identifying, Assessing, and Managing the Threat of Targeted Attacks

This report, a practical guide on assessing and managing the threat of targeted violence, contains concrete strategies to help communities prevent these types of incidents.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/making-prevention-a-reality.pdf/view

I cannot imagine being this monster's wife right now.
Yes, they had issues I'm sure.
I can't imagine she thought he was capable of murdering babies though.

I'm sure at some point he held his own baby while his wife showered. Or cooked dinner.
Can you imagine being his wife right now?
Remembering the times he held your own baby?

Knowing now that he targeted crying babies at point blank range?
Knowing now that he cracked his infant stepsons skull?
Why did he spare his own kids? Why didn't they fall victim to him?

I cannot even imagine the nightmares she must be having.
About how lucky she and her babies are to be alive.

MsFacetious said:

I cannot imagine being this monster's wife right now. ...

Click to expand...

I can't imagine seeing DK's own child, and having a nagging suspicion that he might turn out the exact same way as his daddy.

Considering his charges for injuring step son, not sure why him being capable of hurting children would come as a surprise to his current wife.

Bill Carson said:

I can't imagine seeing DK's own child, and having a nagging suspicion that he might turn out the exact same way as his daddy.

Click to expand...

While yes this monster's child will find out the truth someday, but also, he/she could become one of the greatest advocates for child protection against the daddy he/she never knew?

Nurture over nature? I can't imagine the anxiety, myself... I really hope the media will leave it alone.

Stunned said:

I really am wondering why we are not seeing females reacting this way after watching violent video games. The only thing that comes to mind in the one where they were reenacting the Skinny Man (????). Don't know if that was movie or game. Or maybe.....I too have become desensitized and just don't remember. I'm embarrassed to say Sandy Hook was mentioned the other day and my first thought was of a bad storm. It literally slammed me when I switched thoughts. HOW COULD I HAVE FORGOTTEN!!!!!!!! So ashamed!
......

Click to expand...

My guess is that there are much fewer females watching and playing video games. I brought up this same thought with my husband the other night. As a female myself, it's just my guess that there are much, much fewer females playing violent video games than there are males. It is interesting that there are no female mass killers. I think it's very complex and I know others would probably argue with me... I graduated from high school in the mid 80s. There is not one incident of suicide or threat that I can remember. No 8 year old committed suicide. My school mates who committed suicide did so after high school. Kids, especially boys, were more likely to fist fight on the school grounds or elsewhere. Guns never came out. So, what's different today from the 80s?

My observations....

We weren't on the internet 24/7. Most, if not all of us didn't have internet or even a computer.
*advertiser censored*. *advertiser censored* wasn't nearly as easily accessible as it is today. And in my opinion, not as violent.
Emasculation of boys. Boys got into fist fights on playgrounds and in parking lots. With fists, not with guns, even though nearly every family in that city that I grew up with owned guns. Boys are no longer encouraged to be boys. It's frowned upon in many areas. I recently participated in the town's citizen's police academy. One of the speakers told us about how difficult it is to train young people to become officers. They have no clue how to fight or how to defend themselves in a fight (without a gun). It's just my opinion, boys are not being raised to become men. Also, more and more schools are removing PE. Where and how are kids suppose to release aggression and get it out of their system? Many schools have also done away with Home Ec or Shop Class. In my opinion, shop class kept (and home ec) not only kept kids busy, but helped them to develop interests in things that not only used their brains, but use their hands.
Medication. While I was in high school, I never heard of such things as a kid being on meds for depression or anxiety or ADD, etc. We were KIDS. Again, just my opinion, we were to grow through those things. And I believe for most kids, that would be the right way to go about it. After all, while we are in our teens, we are still growing, developing mentally, emotionally, physcially, etc. Hormones are developing. Why add a mix of meds to that equation? Bad, bad, bad mix, in my opinion.

Go ahead now, chew me up and spit me out. ;-p

I wonder if there is any correlation between violent video games and gun ownership?

One thing is certain, there are millions and millions of semi-automatic weapons owned by millions and millions of Americans, and the vast, vast majority of them aren't used to commit mass murders. (I'm just observing, and not advocating for or against gun control here.)

Bill Carson said:

I wonder if there is any correlation between violent video games and gun ownership?

One thing is certain, there are millions and millions of semi-automatic weapons owned by millions and millions of Americans, and the vast, vast majority of them aren't used to commit mass murders. (I'm just observing, and not advocating for or against gun control here.)

Click to expand...

BBM. So very true!!!