Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.23.17 - Day 21

james9 said:

I don't know if that was the original intention. I think the plan to pin it on MS was something that he thought about after he realized the police were probably closing in on him. Based on how dumb/careless he was, I can't imagine he had the foresight to give MS the iPad for the purpose of pinning the murder on him.

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I can. And the red suitcase he insisted was now his.

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hopingforjustice said:

JMO The very fact that she hired an attorney immediately after the search, without even being charged with anything told me she had knowledge and/or was implicated in the crimes. If she was just a "shocked" girlfriend that was worried and scared because unbeknownst to her , the man she loved was a criminal, that attorney would have guided her straight to the police and offered up testimony against him. Not a chance in my mind is she free of guilt in all of these activities. But again JMO

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Do we know the search happened before she was arrested? And I'm sure rabbit had passed along a message to not talk to police.

I think DM started writing the letters because he knew the ipad was seized after Smich was arrested. He may have been worried that Smich was going to make a deal to get out of the Bosma murder. Also, the farm was being searched again after the arrests and that would have made him prep a story.

Nosey Parker said:

Let's see - what possible defence does he have here. I know, the letters were photo shopped!

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Thankfully, an agreed statement of fact confirmed that the letters were in fact written by DM, so that means DM admits that he wrote these letters. So, he really has no defence (against the letters at least)

Hopefully when the jury goes into deliberation we finally find out how those letters got out of the Barton St jail.

matou said:

I think DM started writing the letters because he knew the ipad was seized after Smich was arrested. He may have been worried that Smich was going to make a deal to get out of the Bosma murder. Also, the farm was being searched again after the arrests and that would have made him prep a story.

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I think he started writing the letters because he had the means to and he wanted to pin everything on MS because he knew his boat was sunk.

The letters are considered hearsay under evidence law. It's really weird that they'd be admissible without corroborating testimony from either CN or DM. Remember at Tim's trial the crown entered the letters into evidence during CN's testimony so she could explain them. It makes sense that they were allowed to enter them now to close their case because they know with DM or CN is about to testify and that will remove the hearsay element and make them admissible.

RezButt said:

Hopefully when the jury goes into deliberation we finally find out how those letters got out of the Barton St jail.

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Stuff gets in and out of the Barton jail all the time. It's no surprise to people living in Hamilton.

Ms.elle said:

The letters are considered hearsay under evidence law. It's really weird that they'd be admissible without corroborating testimony from either CN or DM. Remember at Tim's trial the crown entered the letters into evidence during CN's testimony so she could explain them. It makes sense that they were allowed to enter them now to close their case because they know with DM or CN is about to testify and that will remove the hearsay element and make them admissible.

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It’s hearsay when the accused writes them?

Typhoo1961 said:

Stuff gets in and out of the Barton jail all the time. It's no surprise to people living in Hamilton.

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When Alex Pierson covered the TB trial for 900CHML she said to Scott Thompson, ‘one day I’ll be able to tell you how those letters got out and you’ll fall off your chair.’

I get that it’s easy to smuggle things in and out of jail. Drugs are as readily available if not more in jail than on the street. I’m just curious if DM greased a guard or janitor a few bucks to pass them off.

I think that similar to the TB trail, DM leaves such a wide swath of evidence that MS’s footprint starts to look small in comparison. I think that if you just remove DM like he didn’t exist in this case and then examine the evidence against MS then an M1 for him becomes obvious

JMO of course

RezButt said:

Hopefully when the jury goes into deliberation we finally find out how those letters got out of the Barton St jail.

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IIRC, it was disclosed during the TB, it was Rabbit. I would sure like to have seen those letters she passed to SS that he claimed were benign. DM didn't sneak out letters to SS to direct him how to run the business that DM had already destroyed. They were most likely further directions on protecting his *advertiser censored**. MOO

Letters from Prison

"Noudga testified that she received Millard's letters from his mother, Madeleine Burns, and that she also gave Burns letters she wrote for Millard."

RezButt said:

Hopefully when the jury goes into deliberation we finally find out how those letters got out of the Barton St jail.

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Alex Pierson said we would be shocked. All I've been able to glean - I think - is that it was related to a visitor. He was mooning in a letter to XTina that he was hoping to get a letter from her that day but, alas, visiting hours were over.

Inspector_North said:

IIRC, it was disclosed during the TB, it was Rabbit. I would sure like to have seen those letters she passed to SS that he claimed were benign. DM didn't sneak out letters to SS to direct him how to run the business that DM had already destroyed. They were most likely further directions on protecting his *advertiser censored**. MOO

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Millard didn’t get ‘contact’ visits. I wanna know how the letters got from Millard to his mother.

JuneBug67 said:

Alex Pierson said we would be shocked. All I've been able to glean - I think - is that it was related to a visitor. He was mooning in a letter to XTina that he was hoping to get a letter from her that day but, alas, visiting hours were over.

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Excellent observation. Forgot about that.

RezButt said:

When Alex Pierson covered the TB trial for 900CHML she said to Scott Thompson, ‘one day I’ll be able to tell you how those letters got out and you’ll fall off your chair.’

I get that it’s easy to smuggle things in and out of jail. Drugs are as readily available if not more in jail than on the street. I’m just curious if DM greased a guard or janitor a few bucks to pass them off.

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I remember that. I guess I always thought Rabbit got them out

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Wowsas!!! What a day! While I still longed for more evidence to be entered to back up some of the witnesses, I had hoped that the letters would come into play! I also found it very interesting to see DM not get up to cross! I know there was nothing he could have said, but it was satisfying knowing that he stayed seated and quiet after those letters.
I do have a question/thought about the letters and the content...when it comes to disclosure the defence has access to all evidence that will be used against them in the trial. Not just info that they had the letters Dm wrote to CN, they actually have copies of all of those letters, Right? word for word? That being the case, I am unsure of DM's line of reasoning these past 21 days (maybe there wasn't one in actuality) of constantly trying to dismiss the fact that he was in a relationship with CN and it was in fact serious( as serious as he could be) and continuously bringing up pics of other women, etc. I feel as much as he was trying to discredit the Crown in a way, it was more of a direct attack on CN for her lack of loyalty to him. I think he wanted to hurt her by showing that he was not loyal to her, that he thought she was "fat", that he was going "lend" her out, alluding to the fact that she was not that important to him. I have so many thoughts on this, but I feel that this is his only way to get back at her. He is secretly hopingnot just CN, but her friends and family will see or be following not only the case but the news articles. He wants to humiliate her. All in all, as far as the jury is concerned, it is my opinion, that they saw this, I think they saw that he was a womanizer, valued himself above anyone, no life was more important than his. Although there is a part of me that thinks he loved CN, I do think he found his soul mate in her. They were both cut from the same cloth. Although she knew that he could never be trusted and he thought that he could manipulate and control her. He thought he was much smarter than her. He met his match I think....Monday should prove to be interesting....I don't think CN will be there, she seems, or wants us to believe, she is in ASIA right now. Although I must say, It more than irks me that she is walking around, or should I say jet setting around with out a care, while others are mourning a loss that she was very involved in.

caseyjonesin905 said:

Just sitting here thinking.. I don't think MS had anything to do with killing LB.. although he did help dispose of her remains.. I DO think that MS was the one who pulled the trigger for TB though.. I think it was MS's turn.. maybe after almost a year of bragging in person by DM what a rush it was..it was now MS's turn. Stands to reason that from one of the letters that DM sent to CN was that he was in this predicament for cleaning up Mark's mess.. I wonder now if that wasn't an actual true statement.. LE never would have found out about LB if it wasn't for Mark?? Make sense at all??

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If you read the text messages between MS and DM on the night of July 3rd, it appears Smich was waiting for an update from DM (it appears he was in the same house, but clearly not in the same room). As soon as DM took the body away, Smich had the "black tar" and was working with the tar while DM was driving to the farm to presumably dispose of the body. I think these texts show that MS was collaborating with DM on the murder (even if he wasn't in the room when the murder happened). That is enough for M1.

brightii said:

I believe MS is guilty which is saying something since I was a stubborn holdout in the TB trial and took quite a bit of heat for it then. I didn't change my mind until after MS testified back then.

When I think of MS's testimony in the TB trial, how he said he was shocked to see DM suddenly shoot TB, it now makes even less sense. MS asserted that he (MS) only helped to dispose of TB's body, but after this trial I feel even more certain now that MS knew about what was planned for both LB and for TB.

Truthfully, after LB suddenly went missing - and there is loads of evidence I think to show that MS assisted with disposing of her just as he did with TB - can anyone believe that he wasn't aware of the plan for TB? Why would he have been shocked about what he says DM did to TB if he knew that DM already killed and had incinerated DM's own friend/ex gf LB almost a year earlier?

I think DM and MS both had big horrible plans to build a crime empire that would have included, thefts, murder and incineration of bodies and anything they deemed incriminating. They each had a role to play - one the planner and the other the follower, IMO but it makes them both equally disturbing and far beyond heartless buggers!

I have no stones to throw at anyone who doesn't agree with me. We all come to our own conclusions in our own way and time and rightly so.

All MOO

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I am with you.


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Tealgrove said:

Any legal beagles here?

If MS is at Maple Gate the night of Laura's murder and sees the murder happen does that make MS guilty of murder? I think yes. I also think when you start putting all the circumstantial pieces together, ie., putting Millard with Isho, the rap, the confession to the guys in the garage, the phone pings, Millard putting an alibi together although false, lies always have some truth to them, then I see MS guilty of murder.

In the TB trial it didn't matter who shot TB. The fact remained that the two of them were there and in it together. That was proven. MS admitted he was there but he claimed he didn't know what happened because he was driving the Yukon that was following. No one believed him.

I believe MS was there that night. Why MM was never asked about that still mystifies me. Maybe she couldn't answer for real or just flat out lied. We'll never know.

I'm comfortable finding MS guilty of murder right along with DM. DM is a slam dunk IMO.

MOO

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I totally agree. There is a wealth of circumstantial evidence against MS as well. We know now, however, what MS’s defence will be, thanks to that letter.


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