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  #26  
Old 03-05-2009, 02:39 PM
BondJamesBond BondJamesBond is offline
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Wink Every once-in-awhile even a blind squirrel finds a nut

Quote:
Originally Posted by BondJamesBond View Post
When Tony helped Casey get the gas cans 6/23 he stated he picked her up walking down S. Chickasaw....and, IIRC, that she'd run outta gas in a subdivision nearby that she cut through on the way to her house.

Attached link suggests a possible route for the "cut through" that Casey may have been using. This appears a bit more tortuous than the more obvious use of Curry Ford Rd to make the connection between Goldenrod & Chickasaw, but, perhaps the left-turns required when using Curry Ford (left turn from Goldenrod onto Curry Ford Rd when traveling TO G&C's and left onto Curry Ford Rd from Chickasaw when traveling FROM G&C's) were a pain.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?sourc...,0.027466&z=15

Using the worst-case distance scenario of running outta gas near the intersection of Quail Pond St. as a basis. There is a gas station @ the next intersection (0.15mi)...Goldenrod & Pershing IF she used this route...suggesting she'd be closer to Chickasaw than Goldenrod when she ran outta gas.

IF this is the route she used then it would've taken her less than 45mins to walk to G&C's (2.5 mi @ 3.4 mph)...less than a 1.5hr roundtrip w/ 2nd half carrying gas can(s)...this gives some insight into the decision she'd hafta weigh IF the body were still in the trunk...hoof it...or call for help and risk it. I'm not suggesting Casey would have done this analysis...just sayin' by a gut feel this is what she woulda had to think about. IMHO...that she called Tony for help suggests the body was no longer in the trunk...just odor.

Plenty of options, but, just an example from her cell log....

1:41:37 PM INCOMING CALL Amy H. Casey A. 0.2 Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
2:44:06 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Tony L. (Cell) 2.5 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
2:51:37 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Jesse G. 0.0 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
2:51:59 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Amy H. 10.9 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
3:02:03 PM INCOMING CALL Tony L. (Cell) Casey A. 1.4 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
3:04:05 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Amy H. 9.6 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
3:19:36 PM INCOMING CALL Mark H. Casey A. 5.5 Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
4:01:14 PM INCOMING CALL Tony L. (Cell) Casey A. 0.8 Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
4:08:04 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Tony L. (Cell) 0.4 Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt

Say the 2:44PM call to Tony pinging near G&C's is either a conversation or vmail ..."Hey, can you help me...I'm outta gas near such & such". Casey may sit in the car and talk w/ Amy while she waits...or she may be walking. She talks w/ Amy for 11mins and gets an incoming call from Tony @ 3:02PM..."OK, where are you?". Casey calls Amy back and tells her she's being rescued in a few minutes and talks for another 10mins. After getting off the phone w/ Amy ~3:15PM perhaps Casey starts walking...at least wanting to keep Tony away from the smell in her car. She TAKES the incoming call from Mark H. @ 3:19PM and talks for 5.5mins indicating that Tony hasn't arrived yet. Sooo...just for grins...perhaps she started walking @ 3:15PM...she would've easily made it to Chickasaw (0.9mi @ 3.4mph = 16mins) by the time Tony arrives sometime after 3:25PM.

By 4:01PM calls are pinging well on the way back to Tony's. While pings coulda been before she actually reached Tony's for est. say she was there and it takes ~23mins to drive from G&C's if she went directly...so 4:01PM less 23mins means she finished filling up the Pontiac around 3:38PM. This left ~3:38PM - 3:25PM or ~13mins to be picked up, drive the <1mile balance to G&C's, get the gas cans and get back to the Pontiac. Tight...but within the margin of error for some of the assumptions. Almost left out them bein' seen by Brian B. in that ~10mins they were @ G&C's.

I dunno if all of the above reconciles w/ statement details given...perhaps someone more familiar w/ statements can poke holes in it.

I just noticed this potential cut-through subdivision route when looking for the Brackenwood house yesterday and thought I'd toss it in here.
Updated with the confirmed location per Tony's released interview conducted 10/16/2008.

Google Map also updated to show the exact location of the car which Tony pinpointed.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?sourc...,0.027466&z=15

  #27  
Old 03-06-2009, 09:38 AM
BondJamesBond BondJamesBond is offline
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I'll update the maps later today to show Casey's location on Chickasaw (south of Black Mesa Dr. across from the church) when Tony picked her up.

With this level of detail and a ave. walking speed we can triangulate w/ her cell records again (see posted above) to peer into about when she would've had to start walking and if she had any delays along the way of a direct route.

FWIW...in Tony's statement he recalls that it happened mid-day. The cell records show that the whole scene started @ 2:44PM.
  #28  
Old 03-06-2009, 05:21 PM
BondJamesBond BondJamesBond is offline
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Updating...

Updated Google Map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?sourc...,0.054245&z=14

Updated screenshot of Google Map:


Update street-level view:


Casey's Pontiac was next to the fire hydrant, and she & Tony pulled in front of her on this side of the utility pole, with the gas cans. It doesn't appear there was enough room between the back of the Pontiac and the intersection for Tony to pull in behind her...

..and yes, I noticed what appears to be a car very-like a white Pontiac Sunfire heading north on Anthony Dr.
  #29  
Old 03-07-2009, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BondJamesBond View Post
Updated Google Map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?sourc...,0.054245&z=14

[snipped for brevity]

Casey's Pontiac was next to the fire hydrant, and she & Tony pulled in front of her on this side of the utility pole, with the gas cans. It doesn't appear there was enough room between the back of the Pontiac and the intersection for Tony to pull in behind her...

..and yes, I noticed what appears to be a car very-like a white Pontiac Sunfire heading north on Anthony Dr.
Nice sleuthing Bond. To pinpoint her location puts things in perspective.

I mostly agree with your conclusion that the body had to be out of the trunk. But to play devil's advocate ... It was kind of a long walk to her parents. The day was warm. And the gas cans heavy. I don't think she had much choice but to call for help.
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  #30  
Old 03-09-2009, 01:47 AM
BondJamesBond BondJamesBond is offline
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Breaking it down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG View Post
Nice sleuthing Bond. To pinpoint her location puts things in perspective.

I mostly agree with your conclusion that the body had to be out of the trunk. But to play devil's advocate ... It was kind of a long walk to her parents. The day was warm. And the gas cans heavy. I don't think she had much choice but to call for help.
Well...IMHO, now, even if we had to toss the ADD forensics (that point to 6/19 or 6/20 depending on t.o.d.) the case is still stacking up well for body outta-the-trunk 6/19 or 6/20. Here's why...

Now that we know the exact location of the Pontiac when it ran outta gas, the orientation of the car (direction), and her exact postion when Tony picked her up we can firm things up a bit. Hmmm.

Let's see.... It was 90F when she started walking, 5mph breeze...warmed up to 93F and the breeze dropped off to 1-3mph by the time Tony picked her up Worst case...it would have been a 16 minute walk to the gas station @ Pershing (vs. 29 minute walk to G&C's)...then the walk back with an admittedly heavy gas can. Given her actions, it appears that 'free' gas may have been the over-riding decision-making factor that afternoon. The heat prolly played a role too, but, IMHO, even Casey would've walked the 32-minute roundtrip vs. risking being caught with a body in her trunk . Best Case...Tony even commented to LE about the guy he saw outside near the Pontiac...and, in case you didn't read between the lines, Tony was thinking..."Casey, WTH didn't you ask THAT guy if you could borrow a little gas???!!!??".

Sooooo...why was Casey going to G&C's 6/23 anyway? She'd been going to G&C's almost daily until 6/20. She was there 6/16, 6/17, 6/18, (6/19 PM is unknown due to the 3+hr inactivity on her cell) and then again early PM Fusian-Friday 6/20. She backed into the garage up to 3 times. IMHO, these trips were primarily about dealing with the body and to a lesser extent getting clothes and things she needed.

Until we know with certainty the identity of "Lexus" we can't be sure if the associated calls were related to establishing G or C's whereabouts. However - it is worth noting that even including "Lexus" Casey made NO ATTEMPT to call G&C's in advance of her planned 6/23 visit to establish that the coast was clear. It appears to me that Casey timed her visit with the intent of missing George on 6/23 and 6/24, but, was quite cavalier about it on both dates since she didn't make advance calls. IMHO, this suggests the purpose of 6/23 visit may have been to actually get gas after George left. Monday was her first opportunity to do this with both G&C outta the house. Casey had to know she was running low on gas. IMHO, the absence of calls checking to see if the coast was clear 6/23 at a time when she was already so close to G&C's further supports that Casey wasn't worried about anything more than the stain, and perhaps the developing smell, in the Pontiac. Add to this JWG's earlier observation that Casey pulled into (vs. backed into) the driveway 6/24 before realizing George was still home...the stack of circumstancial evidence supporting the body was disposed pre-6/23 is mounting.

Also, a bit OT, but, FWIW. When we do learn the identity of "Lexus" we may be able to nail the body disposal to 6/19 ~8PM vs. 6/20 owing to only calls to "Lexus" on 6/20 at the time Casey made her G&C visit that day as potential coast-is-clear calls. If “Lexus” has nothing to do with checking on G&C’s whereabouts, then…IMHO, the body was disposed on Suburban 6/19 ~8PM.

Here's how it went down on 6/23, IMHO & based on cell pings, call data, statements, walking & driving distances & times:

1:41PM Casey took an incoming call from Amy while at Tony’s apt. and they talked for just a few seconds.
2:25PM (based on drive time) Casey left Tony's apartment
2:43PM Casey ran outta gas on Anthony Drive.
2:44PM Casey called Tony who was in class, either talked to him for 2.5 minutes and told him she's outta gas, or, she left a 2.5 min (long) vmail to call her ASAP with some description of general area on Chickasaw she would be found. Tony's statement indicated he was at his apartment when she called, which suggests to me Casey left a vmail and he called her when he got to his apartment after class @ 3:02PM.
2:51PM Casey called Jesse, but, did't connect, or aborted the call…perhaps she thought about 'Plan B', but, then decided she'd better wait to hear from Tony.
2:52PM Casey called Amy and chatted away for 11mins. This is likely the conversation Casey relayed to Amy that she ran outta gas and Casey later mis-attributed in her text on 6/27 as having run outta gas "Two weeks in a row".
3:02PM Casey dropped the call with Amy to take the incoming call from Tony and they talked just under 1.5 minutes. Casey prolly attempted to tell Tony how to find her and finally gave up in frustration and said she'd walk to Chickasaw, which would be consistent with Tony's Statement
3:04PM Casey decided she had time to kill (slight pun intended ) and called Amy. They chatted for just under 5mins when Casey grabbed her backpack and started walking. They continued to talk for just under a total of 10mins.
3:19PM Casey took an incoming call from Mark H. which tells us Tony hadn't picked her up yet.
3:25PM Casey terminated the call with Mark H. seeing Tony drive up and onto the grass shoulder on the opposite side of the road.


Tony left @ 3 mins after he finished the call with Casey on his 19min drive.
Casey's walk started just minutes into her call with Amy and gave her 16 mins (@3.4mph ave walking speed) to make the 0.88 mile walk to the pick-up point.

It is important to note that Casey had to have no concern about being seen by George as she walked down Chickasaw. After all, she had allowed plenty of time for him to have gone by and report to work @ 3PM.

And, just 'cause I wanted to eliminate the wild possibility that under-achiever-Casey (1) carried the body to the disposal site, (2) returned to the Pontiac to get the full backpack, and (3) walked to the pick-up point before Tony arrived...well...that would have taken her 67 minutes (@ 3.4mph ave walking speed). To accomplish this her car would've had to have run outta gas @ 2:18PM...making what would have been her high-risk walk down Chickasaw & Suburban with the body at precisely the time George would have been leaving for work. And if one would wanna suggest Casey had the opportunity to drive to the disposal site first, we can eliminate that since we know now that the Pontiac was oriented in the direction of going toward G&C's. OK...I know that was waaay out there...but, I figured I'd go ahead and put it out there 'cause someone was gonna toss it out sooner or later

Last edited by BondJamesBond; 03-09-2009 at 09:57 AM.
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  #31  
Old 03-09-2009, 06:35 AM
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Valhall Valhall is offline
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On page 2 of this released document

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFile...c_redacted.pdf

it states that "Casey Anthony's cellular telephone records showed 14 calls to Gentiva Health Services at 407-629-7992 and 407-629-7565, inclusively, as follows:

06/16/08 1610
06/16/08 1614
06/17/08 1412
06/18/08 1233
06/18/08 1613
06/19/08 1620
06/20/08 1353
06/20/08 1454
06/24/08 1119 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership
06/24/08 1448 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership
06/25/08 1252 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership
06/25/08 1336 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership
06/25/08 1412 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership
06/25/08 1417 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership

With this clarification that that number is actually a second number at CA's work, it appears the "Lexus dealership" completely goes away on KC's calls.

Hope that helps.
  #32  
Old 03-09-2009, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BondJamesBond View Post
Well...IMHO, the case is stacking up well for body outta-the-trunk 6/19 or 6/20. Here's why...
OK, I'm with you now on this. I've always been a believer of the body being out of the trunk by the 20th anyway, although I think the 20th is more likely than the 19th ... if I am going to say more I guess I should probably post on the appropriate thread rather than going O/T here.

Anyway, solid analysis and it gives me the opportunity to press the "thanks" button on your post.
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  #33  
Old 03-09-2009, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhall View Post
On page 2 of this released document

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFile...c_redacted.pdf

it states that "Casey Anthony's cellular telephone records showed 14 calls to Gentiva Health Services at 407-629-7992 and 407-629-7565, inclusively, as follows:

06/16/08 1610
06/16/08 1614
06/17/08 1412
06/18/08 1233
06/18/08 1613
06/19/08 1620
06/20/08 1353
06/20/08 1454
06/24/08 1119 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership
06/24/08 1448 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership
06/25/08 1252 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership
06/25/08 1336 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership
06/25/08 1412 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership
06/25/08 1417 - previously id'd as Lexus dealership

With this clarification that that number is actually a second number at CA's work, it appears the "Lexus dealership" completely goes away on KC's calls.

Hope that helps.
Actually, what is shown on that page is an error LE made in that particular report that was propagated through several other pages of discovery in this and prior document dumps.

See this mythbuster's post for more information.
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  #34  
Old 03-09-2009, 08:38 AM
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Valhall Valhall is offline
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I'm really amazed by how many errors there are in these reports. I mean, for Pete's sake, it's not hard to call a number and see who answers, so there should never be such a significant error as this one.

*sigh*
 

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6/23/08 kc on chickasaw, caylee in wood by now, caylee n woods 6/23, ck lee house 4 evidence, gas cans taken today, kc kept tl away frm car, kc ping @ tl most day, kc ping a's 2:45-3:45, kc ping tl's 4:10, kc put in gas herself, kc txt la abt windy city, kc wld nt ask tl 4 hlp, ping by a's long time kc, ping map 6/23/08, smell in trunk, text unusual, tl driving, tl help brk in shed 4 gas, tl pick up kc chickasaw, txt to la 12:40

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