Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Featured Case Discussion > JonBenet Ramsey

Notices

JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


View Poll Results: Will this case ever be formally solved?
Yes - someone will have a eureka moment and spot a smoking gun 7 8.43%
Yes - someone will have a moment of conscience and confess all they know 9 10.84%
No - 'the rice is cooked' and our grandchildren will be discussing the case 47 56.63%
No because it's hard formally to pin a crime on a dead person 20 24.10%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-29-2009, 10:19 PM
Sophie's Avatar
Sophie Sophie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,017
Poll: Will this case ever be solved?

I know this has been done before but it's always worth updating opinions, especially since the case is apparently being reviewed in Boulder.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sophie For This Useful Post:
  #2  
Old 07-29-2009, 10:35 PM
Ravyn's Avatar
Ravyn Ravyn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,034
I don't believe this crime will be solved..Cause at times I really think John Ramsey did kill JB..And as long everybody point the finger at Patsy Ramsey the real killer(s)as nothing to worry about..And if the R's lawyers have ties with the DA office then that is other block..
__________________
Knowledge of time is precious.Wisdom of truth is more precious than time..Opinions I write are mine..
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ravyn For This Useful Post:
  #3  
Old 07-29-2009, 11:00 PM
Sophie's Avatar
Sophie Sophie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravyn View Post
I don't believe this crime will be solved..Cause at times I really think John Ramsey did kill JB..And as long everybody point the finger at Patsy Ramsey the real killer(s)as nothing to worry about..And if the R's lawyers have ties with the DA office then that is other block..
You're right, Ravyn: if JDI, then the PDI faction is manna from heaven to him.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sophie For This Useful Post:
  #4  
Old 07-29-2009, 11:42 PM
voynich voynich is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: college campus
Posts: 1,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
You're right, Ravyn: if JDI, then the PDI faction is manna from heaven to him.
would you consider the crime solved if JB unknown DNA were to match Amy's rapist (if they did do a rape exam on Amy)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to voynich For This Useful Post:
  #5  
Old 07-29-2009, 11:54 PM
Sophie's Avatar
Sophie Sophie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by voynich View Post
would you consider the crime solved if JB unknown DNA were to match Amy's rapist (if they did do a rape exam on Amy)
Well, I can't believe that the Amy rapist DNA wasn't put on CODIS so it's highly hypothetical but:

1) If the rapist spoke excellent English and could have written the RN or at least had the education to duplicate pseudo-RN notes; and

2) Could be placed in Boulder that night

then there'd be a pretty strong case for saying the case was solved.

However, given that the RN indicates that the murderer knew the Ramseys, you'd have to look for the Amy rapist connection to the Ramseys then make sure you could eliminate the possibility of innocent transfer of the DNA. So formally saying you'd solved the case wouldn't be as simple as just matching the DNA.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Sophie For This Useful Post:
  #6  
Old 07-29-2009, 11:55 PM
Ravyn's Avatar
Ravyn Ravyn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by voynich View Post
would you consider the crime solved if JB unknown DNA were to match Amy's rapist (if they did do a rape exam on Amy)

I would believe this to be solved if the LE proved it..But look how long it's been so I'm doubtful it's Amy's rapist..
__________________
Knowledge of time is precious.Wisdom of truth is more precious than time..Opinions I write are mine..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:00 AM
voynich voynich is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: college campus
Posts: 1,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
Well, I can't believe that the Amy rapist DNA wasn't put on CODIS so it's highly hypothetical but:

1) If the rapist spoke excellent English and could have written the RN or at least had the education to duplicate pseudo-RN notes; and

2) Could be placed in Boulder that night

then there'd be a pretty strong case for saying the case was solved.

However, given that the RN indicates that the murderer knew the Ramseys, you'd have to look for the Amy rapist connection to the Ramseys then make sure you could eliminate the possibility of innocent transfer of the DNA. So formally saying you'd solved the case wouldn't be as simple as just matching the DNA.
I don't know if they recovered DNA from Amy that night, is it possible to learn more via FOIA request?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to voynich For This Useful Post:
  #8  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:03 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
Well, I can't believe that the Amy rapist DNA wasn't put on CODIS so it's highly hypothetical but:

1) If the rapist spoke excellent English and could have written the RN or at least had the education to duplicate pseudo-RN notes; and

2) Could be placed in Boulder that night
Uh, who says JBR's RN author speaks 'excellent' English? You've no idea how the RN author speaks anyway. The RN is written.

It seems to me that the RN composition is only average, and the spelling and handwriting are below average. Certainly not 'excellent'.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Holdontoyourhat For This Useful Post:
  #9  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:17 AM
Sophie's Avatar
Sophie Sophie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Uh, who says JBR's RN author speaks 'excellent' English? You've no idea how the RN author speaks anyway. The RN is written.

It seems to me that the RN composition is only average, and the spelling and handwriting are below average. Certainly not 'excellent'.

The RN is written but there is sufficient idiom to infer fluency. You are right, though, I couldn't say that the RN writer spoke with a Georgia drawl or even a Geordie twang...


I am not sure I can agree regarding the composition. There is the odd bit of almost poetic cadence (look at the 'If you talk to' sequence) points to an education plus the odd non-sequitur like (you aren't the only fat cat so don't think that killing will be hard) which suggests at least someone who could lose their grammar in a stretch. A quick look at the police interviews will show you a Patsy who can go from exquisite grammar to saying, 'I don't think they belonged in our neighbourhood or nothing.'
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sophie For This Useful Post:
  #10  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:42 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
The RN is written but there is sufficient idiom to infer fluency. You are right, though, I couldn't say that the RN writer spoke with a Georgia drawl or even a Geordie twang...'
Certainly not 'excellent' fluency. Just fluency. And, you also couldn't say that the writer didn't speak with a Russian or a Latino accent. The quotes from action movies does suggest a shallowness, as if the writer needed to borrow material they knew would be understood.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Holdontoyourhat For This Useful Post:
  #11  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:45 AM
Sophie's Avatar
Sophie Sophie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by voynich View Post
I don't know if they recovered DNA from Amy that night, is it possible to learn more via FOIA request?
Dunno Voynich but since I'm in a state of enforced idleness, I'll make it Thursday's project to find out and get back to you.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sophie For This Useful Post:
  #12  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:53 AM
Sophie's Avatar
Sophie Sophie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Certainly not 'excellent' fluency. Just fluency. And, you also couldn't say that the writer didn't speak with a Russian or a Latino accent. The quotes from action movies does suggest a shallowness, as if the writer needed to borrow material they knew would be understood.
You know, HOTYH, I'm not so sure that you can't tell that the writer was highly fluent or that they weren't native Anglophones. Again, I am sorry to insert a personal example since I know they tend to be tedious but I do think it's apposite. I studied for a Maitrise in French law for two years at a French university and I had no choice other than to become pretty much fluent. Notwithstanding this, the examiners said that there were no obvious grammatical or spelling errors but that they just knew from the tone of my essays that I wasn't a native speaker. I honestly think the same can be said of the RN - I see no sign of the non-native speaker in the RN.

Last edited by Sophie; 07-30-2009 at 12:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sophie For This Useful Post:
  #13  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:12 AM
Tadpole12 Tadpole12 is offline
Bufo americanus
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: .....
Posts: 3,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
The RN is written but there is sufficient idiom to infer fluency. You are right, though, I couldn't say that the RN writer spoke with a Georgia drawl or even a Geordie twang...


I am not sure I can agree regarding the composition. There is the odd bit of almost poetic cadence (look at the 'If you talk to' sequence) points to an education plus the odd non-sequitur like (you aren't the only fat cat so don't think that killing will be hard) which suggests at least someone who could lose their grammar in a stretch. A quick look at the police interviews will show you a Patsy who can go from exquisite grammar to saying, 'I don't think they belonged in our neighbourhood or nothing.'
Hi Sophie.
"You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult".
Ya ...... that is quite a string of words ... very American lingo IMO.

Can't even closely translate that from an original form in french to eng, cause it don't make sense, and does not comply to french grammatics or thought, it's in 'english thought'. IMO

Last edited by Tadpole12; 07-30-2009 at 01:16 AM. Reason: quote
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tadpole12 For This Useful Post:
  #14  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:20 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
You know, HOTYH, I'm not so sure that you can't tell that the writer was highly fluent or that they weren't native Anglophones. Again, I am sorry to insert a personal example since I know they tend to be tedious but I do think it's apposite. I studied for a Maitrise in French law for two years at a French university and I had no choice other than to become pretty much fluent. Notwithstanding this, the examiners said that there were no obvious grammatical or spelling errors but that they just knew from the tone of my essays that I wasn't a native speaker. I honestly think the same can be said of the RN - I see no sign of the non-native speaker in the RN.
Whats a non-native? Non-American?

I suppose what you're saying is that you see no sign of anything but US-English. Presumably you're basing this on the grammar or the expressions.

Oddly, there are many RN expressions that are pushing the outer limits of the US-English vernacular. 'bring an adequate size attache to the bank,' 'you're not the only fat cat,' and 'Victory!' as closing salutation are sticking out like a sore thumb in US-English. Strikes me as a more formal English, as Britian-English. This type of English is taught in Europe, India, and the far east.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Holdontoyourhat For This Useful Post:
  #15  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:26 AM
SuperDave's Avatar
SuperDave SuperDave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 11,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by voynich View Post
I don't know if they recovered DNA from Amy that night, is it possible to learn more via FOIA request?
Only one way to find out, that I know of.
__________________
All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:28 AM
voynich voynich is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: college campus
Posts: 1,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
Only one way to find out, that I know of.
is to make a FOIA request?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:29 AM
SuperDave's Avatar
SuperDave SuperDave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 11,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by voynich View Post
is to make a FOIA request?
You got it.
__________________
All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:41 AM
Sophie's Avatar
Sophie Sophie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Whats a non-native? Non-American?

I suppose what you're saying is that you see no sign of anything but US-English. Presumably you're basing this on the grammar or the expressions.

Oddly, there are many RN expressions that are pushing the outer limits of the US-English vernacular. 'bring an adequate size attache to the bank,' 'you're not the only fat cat,' and 'Victory!' as closing salutation is sticking out like a sore thumb in US-English. Strikes me as more formal English, as Britian-English. This type of English is taught in Europe, India, and the far east.

Thing is, you lot speak much better formal English than we do: just ask Rupert Murdoch who has recently opined on the topic (while ignoring his own contribution to our sloppiness in the form of the tabloids - 'Gotcha!).

I don't see anything in the writing of the letter that I would see as British - 'fat cat' and 'victory' certainly aren't uniquely 'us.' Had it said, 'Sorry to inconvenience you and hope it's not a dreadful bore, but we'd be most awfully grateful if you would give us $118,000. Terribly sorry if this is inconvenient but we may have to think about doing something to your daughter if you don't comply. Many thanks, Old Man' or 'Never mind the bollox, give us the cash' I might have seen your point.


However, I'll admit that because of the symbol that looks like a Sterling symbol changed to a Dollar I have wondered about Commonwealth connections at the very least. There again, Patsy had recently been in London and was magna cum laude smart.. Similarly, if you look at the various murders committed by the Russians in Britain (the ricin murder decades ago and the plutonium murder a year or two ago) or the Mafioso stuff like 'God's banker' hanging under Blackfriars Bridge, you do see that people enjoy turning our crime literature around on us. Your best bet with the SFF scenario is that the criminal did likewise and had a laugh at the expense of your movies.

Last edited by Sophie; 07-30-2009 at 02:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sophie For This Useful Post:
  #19  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:51 AM
Sophie's Avatar
Sophie Sophie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,017
OK, so does anyone know whether non-resident aliens can make FOIA requests? I am happy to do this and pay any charges...

(I thought Voynich's Trekkie heart would be warmed by my referring to myself as a non-resident alien rather than as a non-citizen)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-30-2009, 02:17 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
Thing is, you lot speak much better formal English than we do: just ask Rupert Murdoch who has recently opined on the topic (while ignoring his own contribution to our sloppiness in the form of the tabloids - 'Gotcha!).
Nice try, but taught British-English is way more formal than taught US-English. If you are ESL then its likely you were taught British-English.


Sorry, but the expression "Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank" isn't really US-English.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Holdontoyourhat For This Useful Post:
  #21  
Old 07-30-2009, 02:18 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
OK, so does anyone know whether non-resident aliens can make FOIA requests? I am happy to do this and pay any charges...

(I thought Voynich's Trekkie heart would be warmed by my referring to myself as a non-resident alien rather than as a non-citizen)
I'm pretty sure the case has to be federal for FOIA to be applicable. If the case isn't federal, then there's no FOIA documents in the first place.

States may have their own versions of FOIA.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Holdontoyourhat For This Useful Post:
  #22  
Old 07-30-2009, 02:27 AM
Sophie's Avatar
Sophie Sophie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Nice try, but taught British-English is way more formal than taught US-English. If you are ESL then its likely you were taught British-English.


Sorry, but the expression "Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank" isn't really US-English.


ESL? (I know I'll kick myself for the obviousness of this). Seriously, HOTYH, I think you are wrong here - schools here are allowing text language for some composition which is just gr8 m8. Obviously the RN writer could be of a much older generation but I don't see it: there is nothing British about that note. I have honestly never heard a compatriot refer to an attache case: it's a brief case and,in any event, a British-English speaker would have said, 'Make sure you take an adequate-sized...'
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sophie For This Useful Post:
  #23  
Old 07-30-2009, 02:35 AM
Tadpole12 Tadpole12 is offline
Bufo americanus
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: .....
Posts: 3,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
ESL? (I know I'll kick myself for the obviousness of this). Seriously, HOTYH, I think you are wrong here - schools here are allowing text language for some composition which is just gr8 m8. Obviously the RN writer could be of a much older generation but I don't see it: there is nothing British about that note. I have honestly never heard a compatriot refer to an attache case: it's a brief case and,in any event, a British-English speaker would have said, 'Make sure you take an adequate-sized...'
Hi Sophie.

Ya .... 'make sure ya' .... that's an Americanism for sure .... bring ... rather than take.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-30-2009, 05:43 AM
madeleine's Avatar
madeleine madeleine is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,535
No - 'the rice is cooked' and our grandchildren will be discussing the case
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-30-2009, 06:06 AM
madeleine's Avatar
madeleine madeleine is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,535
Even IF this will ever go to trial (and I mean RDI) it will probably go like this:

DERSHOWITZ: And that's a fair answer, but under your analysis you couldn't arrest John Ramsey and you could only arrest Patsy Ramsey for accidentally causing a death, because I think any criminal lawyer will tell you that if either the death caused -- either the accident caused the death of JonBenet or she reasonably thought it caused the death of JonBenet, whatever she did thereafter could be only be an obstruction of justice. But it wouldn't turn an accident into a murder.

VAN SUSTEREN: And...

THOMAS: Let me respond, Greta, if I could please, just real quickly.

Mr. Dershowitz, you're not getting an argument from me. I lay out that I don't think the father's involved. And as I've said before, I think this was an accidental death, which by definition lacked motive.

I'm not suggesting a first-degree murder charge here.

DERSHOWITZ: Not even a murder charge. Probably at most a negligent homicide charge.

THOMPSON: How about manslaughter, Alan? Are we just forgetting manslaughter?

DERSHOWITZ: Well, manslaughter...



http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...04/lkl.00.html


It will be very hard to prove especially since PR is dead.
__________________

Last edited by madeleine; 07-30-2009 at 06:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to madeleine For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Found Deceased Why hasn't this case been solved? Candace Lynn Starr 1975 Airys_01 Located Forum Discussion 6 12-29-2009 08:48 AM
Will This Case Ever Be Solved? SeriouslySearching Haleigh Cummings 41 06-05-2009 10:51 AM
Do you think this case will ever be solved? Solace JonBenet Ramsey 62 02-21-2007 02:31 PM
If this case got solved.............. ellen13 JonBenet Ramsey 52 04-26-2006 07:19 AM


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:01 PM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!