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Caylee Anthony 2 years old Not reported missing for a month after she was last seen.


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Old 09-29-2009, 02:44 PM
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Unhappy Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child**REVISIT FOR READING*

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/no...7435021&ref=nf

Shocking developments: 1,000 of pages of documents just released in the death penalty case against Casey Anthony, the mother accused of murdering her child last year. In a stunning development, the discovery reveals FBI e-mails regarding a picture taken of a large stain in the trunk of Casey Anthony’s car - an Agent writing that the stain appears to be the outline of a silhouette of a child in the fetal position. The photo allegedly shows what may be the back, bottom and legs of a small child! Is the stain in the trunk of tot mom’s car the outline of little Caylee’s body?
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:47 PM
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This makes perfect sense....aww Caylee girl. I hope you just went to sleep and never felt a thing, never knew any terror or pain.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:00 PM
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This is both good and bad.

Good because it is quite likely true. The child was laying in the trunk in a bag in a fetal position, that was the contact with the carpet and that is what would have been stained by fluid leakage.

Bad because it is highly subjective, and only is noticeable when viewed by computer, not flat photo prints. This sort of reeks of overreaching and looking for paterns in clouds and inkblots. If pushed it is something that a jury may take the wrong way.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:01 PM
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I posted this info in the 'Pontiac' thread and reposting here for those who did not see it.



http://www.clickorlando.com/health/21139699/detail.html

Quote:
The e-mail was addressed to Erin P. Martin of the FBI, and can be found on page 34 of this document.

But two days later, on Oct. 2, FBI supervisory photographic technologist Richard W. Vorder Bruegge told Cowan the lab would not speculate about what left the image: "Others can draw their own conclusions about that."

The stain Cowan observed was found not to be caused by any biological liquid, such as blood or fluids from decomposition. No DNA was found in the stain.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Harmony2 View Post
I posted this info in the 'Pontiac' thread and reposting here for those who did not see it.



http://www.clickorlando.com/health/21139699/detail.html
Quote:
The e-mail was addressed to Erin P. Martin of the FBI, and can be found on page 34 of this document.

But two days later, on Oct. 2, FBI supervisory photographic technologist Richard W. Vorder Bruegge told Cowan the lab would not speculate about what left the image: "Others can draw their own conclusions about that."

The stain Cowan observed was found not to be caused by any biological liquid, such as blood or fluids from decomposition. No DNA was found in the stain


Then I wonder what in God's name caused the image!!
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:33 PM
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Could the image be like furniture marks in the carpet (just impressions)? I doubt the trunk had carpet.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by essies View Post
Quote:
The e-mail was addressed to Erin P. Martin of the FBI, and can be found on page 34 of this document.

But two days later, on Oct. 2, FBI supervisory photographic technologist Richard W. Vorder Bruegge told Cowan the lab would not speculate about what left the image: "Others can draw their own conclusions about that."

The stain Cowan observed was found not to be caused by any biological liquid, such as blood or fluids from decomposition. No DNA was found in the stain


Then I wonder what in God's name caused the image!!
We will have to wait and see (patience is not one of my virtues, <sigh>) Clickorlando may have interpreted the results incorrectly.

Last edited by Harmony2; 09-29-2009 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:46 PM
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Well, if it wasn't blood, decomp, or any biological substance containing DNA, I wonder what the heck it was? Hmmm. I wonder if anyone knows what effect, if any, chloroform might have on carpet fibers if used in a large quantity?
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:51 PM
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So what could cause something like this? I mean, short of being soaking wet (from water, or some other substance), it seems impossible to me that the outline of a body would materialize, since it's been noted that it was not caused by any body fluids....unless...the carpet of the car had recently been treated with something.

Last edited by oh_gal; 09-29-2009 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:51 PM
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So, what caused the smell?

Any outlines of squirrels mentioned?

Last edited by I Din Doot; 09-29-2009 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:53 PM
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handwritten pg 8876 of fbi reports show pic of trunk - could this be the one they refer to? I don't think I can copy and post here but maybe some savvy ws'er could do it for me?
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oh_gal View Post
Would this be caused by the body breaking down after death?
That would produce decomp fluid, which would contain DNA, which they say wasn't found. Huh...wonder what the stain was?? It had to be light, hard to see if you can't see it in a flat photo, only on a computer screen. And it was viewed in the trunk with an ALS, so the stain was light. But I also remember George's statement saying that there was a basketball sized stain, which would mean that he could see it. And it was initially speculated to be blood, which would be dark. So which is it? was there more than one stain? Totally thrown off here. I can't believe that it's not biological fluid of some sort. Even if there is no outline of a child's form in there, what was the stain?
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:05 PM
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If there is no dna in the stain how did decomp get on the paper towels in the trash bag? Is it possible to get rid of all dna by using bleach or cleaners(chloroform)? If so that means that the trunk was likely cleaned by GA or CA while the trash bag from KC's trunk sat in the dumpster.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:09 PM
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Did anyone actually see anything in the documents stating that the stain was not caused by bodily fluids? All I've seen is a news report. For example, was the reporter just extrapolating from an FBI report saying the stained liner tested negative for BLOOD? I saw there were numerous FBI reports that various things tested negative for blood. I didn't go over them very carefully, because I didn't expect anything to test positive for blood.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sarah7855 View Post
That would produce decomp fluid, which would contain DNA, which they say wasn't found. Huh...wonder what the stain was?? It had to be light, hard to see if you can't see it in a flat photo, only on a computer screen. And it was viewed in the trunk with an ALS, so the stain was light. But I also remember George's statement saying that there was a basketball sized stain, which would mean that he could see it. And it was initially speculated to be blood, which would be dark. So which is it? was there more than one stain? Totally thrown off here. I can't believe that it's not biological fluid of some sort. Even if there is no outline of a child's form in there, what was the stain?
The presence of decomp fluid would NOT necessarily mean that usable DNA could be extracted. So a negative test for DNA does not necessarily mean there was no decomp fluid. I seem to recall one of the FBI lab notes says they warned the SA they probably wouldn't be able to do a successful DNA test on the stain.

BTW, does anyone have a link to a document even saying there was a negative test for DNA on the stain? I don't remember seeing it.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:14 PM
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gasoline in the trunk


baby in the trunk


gasoline spilled in the truck


baby laying on the trunk floor


image of baby from laying in gasoline


ROBOTDOG out
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
Could the image be like furniture marks in the carpet (just impressions)? I doubt the trunk had carpet.
You mean, you think the carpeting, or whatever you want to call it, had been removed? I can't recall ever seeing a car that didn't have some type of carpeting in the trunk. You know, like that felt stuff, at least.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:34 PM
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Somewhere in this doc dump one of the lab techs answers a question about if the car is still in the garage for further processing and she says "yes, and it smells horrible".
OK - if there is no dna from the stain in the trunk, and only 1 hair with deathband (thanks to the great cleaning talent of CA) - I think that the prosecution should take all of the jurors for a visit to the garage for a field trip to get a whiff of that car. I believe that would nail the coffin shut.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:35 PM
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A question I have...if the impression was indeed left by Caylee's body, could she have been triple bagged by then? It doesn't seem so........? Anyone?
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TotallyObsessed View Post
Somewhere in this doc dump one of the lab techs answers a question about if the car is still in the garage for further processing and she says "yes, and it smells horrible".
OK - if there is no dna from the stain in the trunk, and only 1 hair with deathband (thanks to the great cleaning talent of CA) - I think that the prosecution should take all of the jurors for a visit to the garage for a field trip to get a whiff of that car. I believe that would nail the coffin shut.
Great idea. I wonder if the SA plans on doing just that.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:42 PM
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Then what is causing the smell if there is no decomp fluid?? So confused......
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by oh_gal View Post
So what could cause something like this? I mean, short of being soaking wet (from water, or some other substance), it seems impossible to me that the outline of a body would materialize, since it's been noted that it was not caused by any body fluids....unless...the carpet of the car had recently been treated with something.
Chlorine from a POOL?
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:47 PM
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some sort of crazy chemical acceleration method may have happened with the gasoline
cans and the fumes. i think she had gasoline cans in her car at many different times

kind of like the super glue test ( cyanoacrylate fuming method )

that poor little child...
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by essies View Post
Quote:
The e-mail was addressed to Erin P. Martin of the FBI, and can be found on page 34 of this document.

But two days later, on Oct. 2, FBI supervisory photographic technologist Richard W. Vorder Bruegge told Cowan the lab would not speculate about what left the image: "Others can draw their own conclusions about that."

The stain Cowan observed was found not to be caused by any biological liquid, such as blood or fluids from decomposition. No DNA was found in the stain


Then I wonder what in God's name caused the image!!
I have read the comments by Richard Bruegge, but where are you finding in the documents released that there was no DNA in that impression/stain?
All I see is a report from 'Click Orlando' which states that as fact...
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:49 PM
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my concerns about this stain are great. So far, I think RobotDog is on to something. I swear I recall reading that the gasoline amount found in the air sampling was much too large to have been caused by simply an open container. Can anyone point me in the direction of where I might have read that? I know it was a previous doc dump, not todays if that helps at all? And AZ Lawyer, I too need more clarification on bodily fluids vs blood evidence. I didnt seem to read that part correctly either I guess. TIA WSers
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