VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

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AndresEscobar said:
Kids life is ruined. It's sad because he's 20 years old, and his life is over. Crime effects more than just the victims and the victims family. Here's a kid who made a horrible split second decision that ended four peoples lives, his own life, and changed countless other lives.

Kids family wont (or cant) come out to see him. He's in a cell by himself and only interacts with jail guards and his attorney. He apparently gets hate mail.

Who am I to judge? He's still a person. A person that did one of the worst things i've ever heard of, but he's still a person. It could be my little brother or your little brother in his shoes. If I could take 5 minutes of my day and make him feel a little better, then why not?
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Seeing how he killed the dad at least 2 days later, not to mention probably the mom at a separate time than the girls, it wasn't just a 'split second' decision.
 
PAXIMUS said:
...

When our kids make a mistake we dont lock them in their room or beat them with a belt, if you do I can assure you that you are not helping them, you sit them down and talk to them and teach them the right way, YES there should be consequences for what they did, take away the video games and cell phones etc, but rehabilitate them instead of just punishing them.
...
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...spare the rod, spoil the child... just saying.
 
PAXIMUS said:
I know man I am very conflicted by it also but Emma and Mel and Deb and Mark are gone nothing we can do to bring them back and the least we can do is try to make something positive to honor their life and to me the only way to do that is try and reach Sam and get it on the right track to becoming a normal human being and working out his problems by sending him some positive words.


I found it interesting that Sam mentioned to that ScaryMary person in his letter to her that his cellblock mates are very much like a family to him, it is sad to consider it but it almost seems as if Sam may have it better where he is than he did at home, it really appears that the kid is really looking for a family that he never had and perhaps he felt he was losing that in the horrocore crowd because of he and Emma's falling out and now he is looking for it among those in his cellblock. That really tells me a lot about the kid and how much he simply yearns to have a family and people to support and look out for him. Its all very sad and its conflicting for me to show sympathy for him what he did was REALLY ****ED UP but I cant help the way I am wired and thats just who I am, I tend to have compassion for people like him and mercy and forgiveness for what they did, I really do not know any other way to act. I read so many of the threads on this forum on other cases and people are so willingly to say things like they hope people get raped in prison or fried or killed even and I just cant relate to that sort of blood lust and desire for revenge. Prison rape is nothing to ****ing joke about, rape is NEVER ok no matter what and it really pisses me off when people make jokes about it, it tells me more about them then it does people like Sam, its disturbing.
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Paximus I respect your opinions even though I don't agree with you some of the time. You are a person that I'm sure I'd get along with greatly and would hope to have the support of someone like you if I ever came into a situation where I needed people to turn to. Like you I generally see the good in people when other people don't. But when it comes to viciousness like this I can't see that there's any good in them. I believe some people that have anti-personality disorders can be very easy going, charming and have alot of charisma. I feel that this can be a cover that they use to gain peoples trust just to set them up so they can take advantage of the fact that human beings inherently think people are fair and instinctivley want to trust them. People don't believe that such evil can exist...and when they undeniably come across it they sometimes want to blame it on supernatural occurrences. I don't feel that these traits all applied to Sam but I do think there's people out there who feed off of our goodness in society in malevolent way. I just can't feel sorry for Sam. So I guess we agree to disagree. It's all good.
 
PAXIMUS said:
Sam can be contacted here:

Please, Only if you plan on sending a friendly, positive letter!

Send To:
Sam McCroskey
P.O. Drawer 388
Farmville, VA 23901

Sam's letter:


LetterFromSam1.jpg
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Nice. Here's to some hate mail disguised as bad lyrics. :dance:
 
peace_gurl said:
would you say the same thing if it was your mother, dad, sister and friend? Maybe you can....sorry, I do not know how you could think like that but then again I do not know how anyone could bash and slaughter people, live with rottin' bodies and act like nothing went down. Maybe people who think they can save him should let him live with them.. save us a lot of money keeping him in jail or in the chair. Just my point of view, please take no offense.
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I am not siding with Sam in the least bit and I have no idea how I would feel if it were my child, but for us as outsiders looking-in we have no idea what went through his mind or what his mental state was. As I said before I do not think what he did was right, in fact it's absolutely horrible, but as someone with panic attacks/anxiety problems due to my mothers illness and being her caregiver, I can say from experience that I know for a 100% fact that psychological problems do exist and that sometimes you really can't control your own thoughts or actions. With panic attacks, I can't control my fear and when I say fear, it's fear of no existing reason. I have actually had my arm lock up during a panic attack where I couldn't move it, or I would get so afraid I'd run circles frantically with no particular place to go or how about the few times I'd pull my car over and cry from being so afraid that I couldn't even drive. That's scary ! Not saying my panic attacks can make me think so illogical that I will kill anyone or even think about it, but some mental problems do make people think differently and they actually react to their thoughts. Some people don't believe that people have mental disabilities, and at one time, as bad as it feels for me to say, I always thought those people were lying about their mental state just to get away with murder, but now I can't not believe it to be true, for now I have my own mental instabilities.
 
Wes said:
Seeing how he killed the dad at least 2 days later, not to mention probably the mom at a separate time than the girls, it wasn't just a 'split second' decision.
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yeah, it was. His decision to kill the person or not to kill them came in the few seconds before he actually killed them.
 
Vabrownid1 said:
Can anyone tell me why I keep getting the following page when I try to click on a link?
Vabrownid1, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
:(
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You need a total of 50(ish) posts before you can see images. To stack your post count, go to the games forum and play a few 'abc' games. It's quick, and legal.
 
nakedmanjoe said:
Paximus I respect your opinions even though I don't agree with you some of the time. You are a person that I'm sure I'd get along with greatly and would hope to have the support of someone like you if I ever came into a situation where I needed people to turn to. Like you I generally see the good in people when other people don't. But when it comes to viciousness like this I can't see that there's any good in them. I believe some people that have anti-personality disorders can be very easy going, charming and have alot of charisma. I feel that this can be a cover that they use to gain peoples trust just to set them up so they can take advantage of the fact that human beings inherently think people are fair and instinctivley want to trust them. People don't believe that such evil can exist...and when they undeniably come across it they sometimes want to blame it on supernatural occurrences. I don't feel that these traits all applied to Sam but I do think there's people out there who feed off of our goodness in society in malevolent way. I just can't feel sorry for Sam. So I guess we agree to disagree. It's all good.
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Absolutely, you make some great points and I cant argue against them. I am really glad that we have a great group of people here who can handle this discussion and have disagreements and do so in a responsible adult like manner. I appreciate those who disagree with me more than those who agree of course it is always nice to have people agree with you and validate your opinion but I learn a lot more from people like you who see things in another way and are willing to share yours views in a respectable and civil way. I enjoy debate and try not to make it personal, I dont think that those who have no sympathy or Sam are bad people or uncaring, we all are shaped by our own experiences and we each have somethin important to add to this discussion and that is what makes it great.
 
Heroine said:
I am not siding with Sam in the least bit and I have no idea how I would feel if it were my child, but for us as outsiders looking-in we have no idea what went through his mind or what his mental state was. As I said before I do not think what he did was right, in fact it's absolutely horrible, but as someone with panic attacks/anxiety problems due to my mothers illness and being her caregiver, I can say from experience that I know for a 100% fact that psychological problems do exist and that sometimes you really can't control your own thoughts or actions. With panic attacks, I can't control my fear and when I say fear, it's fear of no existing reason. I have actually had my arm lock up during a panic attack where I couldn't move it, or I would get so afraid I'd run circles frantically with no particular place to go or how about the few times I'd pull my car over and cry from being so afraid that I couldn't even drive. That's scary ! Not saying my panic attacks can make me think so illogical that I will kill anyone or even think about it, but some mental problems do make people think differently and they actually react to their thoughts. Some people don't believe that people have mental disabilities, and at one time, as bad as it feels for me to say, I always thought those people were lying about their mental state just to get away with murder, but now I can't not believe it to be true, for now I have my own mental instabilities.
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I agree totally. Not only this, but what does piling up on him solve? What does "hoping he fries" solve? What does "sending hate mail disguised as lyrics" do? does it bring back the girls? Who am I or anyone to judge him?
 
PAXIMUS said:
The thing is, we are ALL capable of doing what Sam did, everyone has a breaking point, most of us had decent parents so we learned how to keep that dark side in check, Sam probably didnt have that, I dont think we should all feel sorry for him I am just asking people to with hold their judgement until we know what really took place, at this point we simply dont know.
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I beg to differ, no, I am not capable of doing what Sam did. My mind does not think that way. He killed 4 "FOUR" people.
Maybe he just wanted to see how it felt and they decide oh, this is cool let me do it again, and again, and again.
I don't want to live beside him either. do I feel sorry for Sam.....no. Do I feel sorry for his family....heck yeah. I think he is warped mentally.
 
There is a myth that needs to be busted you are not saving money by executing a convict rather than putting him away for life. The stats are pretty clear that it is more costly to execute them than it is to house and feed them for 30 years or so. After all the appeals and everything the cost of an excecution can sometimes reach in to millions of dollars.
 
AndresEscobar said:
I agree totally. Not only this, but what does piling up on him solve? What does "hoping he fries" solve? What does "sending hate mail disguised as lyrics" do? does it bring back the girls? Who am I or anyone to judge him?
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'twas a j/k
 
nakedmanjoe said:
I don't know....but I feel like Sam's getting more sympathy that drunk drivers do that accidentally kill people in car wrecks. At least there it's an accident. There's a chance if drive under the influence that you won't kill somebody, If you hack somebody up with a maul that’s just over the top negligence. I believe if Sam wasn't pure evil he could have consciously kept from killing at least Mark.
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Most of my work involves DUI defense. My clients lose their families, friends, jobs, etc. All from one mistake.
 
Wes said:
You'd have a tough sell with that one.
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Maybe you're not getting my point: he could have not killed the those people up until he killed them, do you get what I'm saying? He could have decided to kill them all, but he had every opportunity to stop until he killed them.

Say tonight I decide to hit someone. I have up until the moment I actually hit them to change my mind. Its fractions of a second between committing a crime and just going home.
 
AndresEscobar said:
Most of my work involves DUI defense. My clients lose their families, friends, jobs, etc. All from one mistake.
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I actually did a lot of DUI defense work early on in my career when I was practicing and everyone I knew hated me for it but like you said these people lose their families, often lose their jobs because they cant drive anymore etc and the kids suffer and end up homeless even at times. Yes driving drunk and I wouldnt particularly care much for defending repeat offenders but I think its safe to say we have all or at least most of us have had a few and gotten behind the wheel, it isnt good but it is a mistake and if I can prevent someone from losing everything they have because of it youre damn right I will try and help them.
 
PAXIMUS said:
I actually did a lot of DUI defense work early on in my career when I was practicing and everyone I knew hated me for it but like you said these people lose their families, often lose their jobs because they cant drive anymore etc and the kids suffer and end up homeless even at times. Yes driving drunk and I wouldnt particularly care much for defending repeat offenders but I think its safe to say we have all or at least most of us have had a few and gotten behind the wheel, it isnt good but it is a mistake and if I can prevent someone from losing everything they have because of it youre damn right I will try and help them.
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You have to get a device that makes you blow to start your car after your first DUI in the state of IL now.
 
AndresEscobar said:
Maybe you're not getting my point: he could have not killed the those people up until he killed them, do you get what I'm saying? He could have decided to kill them all, but he had every opportunity to stop until he killed them.

Say tonight I decide to hit someone. I have up until the moment I actually hit them to change my mind. Its fractions of a second between committing a crime and just going home.
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Yeah, I understood. But he didn't just make "a" horrible split second decision. According to your rationale he would've made four separate horrible split second decisions.

What it amounts to is he brutally killed four individuals, two likely at the same approximate time, one slightly earlier/later, and one a couple days later.

And sure, every time he killed it was a split second decision where he could've changed his mind, but he didn't. In fact it appears rather premediatated, at least on two of the occasions. But to act like this was just one split second decision is rather lame.
 
The question of whether we're all just like Sam except for some input or environmental factor is interesting to me....

I think I've mentioned here before that I have a collection of various media about the Manson Family. For a long time, I said I was fascinated by what happened there because I could easily have been Sadie or Leslie or one of the other girls. But as I've gotten older, I start to question that. Maybe there is something in me that just could not cross that line. It truly feels as though there is when I focus on it, and yet most literature, culture, psychology, etc., would argue that we're all capable.

Still thinking...
 
peace_gurl said:
I beg to differ, no, I am not capable of doing what Sam did. My mind does not think that way. He killed 4 "FOUR" people.
Maybe he just wanted to see how it felt and they decide oh, this is cool let me do it again, and again, and again.
I don't want to live beside him either. do I feel sorry for Sam.....no. Do I feel sorry for his family....heck yeah. I think he is warped mentally.
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Maybe he felt that way and maybe he didnt, we simply do not know and I tend to try and deal with facts and not speculation or emotional response, when and if we do find out why Sam did it then that would be the time for this discussion, until then we are in no position to judge him. I also completely disagree with you that you are incapable of taking another person's life. I understand you may think that and you dont sit around considering that you could do it but if the right buttons were pushed and you hit your breaking point you could possibly react in a way that would surpirse you.
 
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