UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #1

[Recovering-Lurker]

Originally Posted by erynne936

I was thinking the opposite - that he hated it that she worked (had to work to make ends meet?), and especially that she might have been doing better financially than him. Especially in light of the Mormon "man is the head or the house/breadwinner" type thing. Perhaps he felt emasculated and ashamed because she was smarter (likely, given the interview with him we saw!) and more successful/brought in more money than him?

moo.

I didn't think about it that way. That could very well be the case.

[passionflower]

I'm afraid of what the almost 5 year old SAW or HEARD!
Something happened in the livingroom.......big wet spot.
Did he see mommy there?
Did he hear a fight? Did they fight allot in listening distance?
Did he see mommy sick? in bed?
Where exactly could the boys be after dinner at 6ish???
Wonder if they were in a bedroom watching DVD's? or something?
a play room?
I'm worried about him!
At 1-2 I doubt if the baby brother knows much.
This gets sadder as I think out loud.

[mayelf]

Originally Posted by Amster

In interviews with friends and family....they all say it's not weird that Josh took two kids, 4 and 2, camping in the middle of the night in freezing temps. Nope. Not odd at all. He did things like that all the time....INCREDIBLE!

Yeah I don't think it's odd to go camping in the winter. But I do find it odd that he didn't take his wife and he didn't realize that he was missing work on monday. The smaller details of the case is what I'm finding odd.

[fhc]

Originally Posted by Recovering-Lurker

I didn't think about it that way. That could very well be the case.

and most likely, she would have gotten custody of the 2 little boys that jp is now seen clinging to like he would never give them up.

[SuziQ]

Rut Roh! Arsenic is a heavy metal compound.

http://www.t-gone.com/tinnitus.htm

(snip)
Tinnitus From Prescription Drugs Or Heavy Metal Poisoning

Tinnitus is often caused by a wide variety of medicinal and prescription drugs such as anxiety and depression drugs, anti-malarial medication, blood-pressure controlling medicines, toxins ingested into the body, and heavy metal poisoning.

[Pondering Mind]

Originally Posted by lonetraveler

Does anyone think that maybe he was planning on just taking the boys and leaving after whatever happened to their mother happened? He was going to run. In one of the articles when he finally answered when one of the family was trying to contact him after the family was reported missing, he commented that he had just been driving around with the boys. I don't think he was taking the boys camping. I think he was running. The camping story just doesn't work for me. I do believe that he took Susan with them. Maybe wrapped in something and of course, now we know that she did not make it back home. JMO.

bbm~

I don't think so lone..at least not from what I've read so far. I do believe that he most likely had Susan with him, but if he wasn't planning on coming back, I don't think he would have left the 2 fans on to dry the wet spot on the carpet. He probably wouldn't have cleaned it at all OR at least would have let it dry by itself.
Re: earlier post about 'smores'. I can't even hardly type that it sounds so ridiculous, but what I have read and someone please correct me if I'm wrong...but in the one article he said that they often go on last minute camping trips and fix smores and stuff like that....never did read that they did make smores this time..in the wee hours of the morning...with 2 young boys..in sub freezing temps...on a Sunday nite because he forgot what day it was...then forgot to mention the camping trip to Susans father on the single occasion that he spoke to him...Really...you couldn't make this up if you tried...if it wasn't so horrible one would almost have to laugh..

[Texas Mist]

I think fox13 has the timeline messed up....I don't think Josh spent 2 nites in the van with the kids...I think his story is that he left around 12:30, Hellewell talked to him at 3pm on Monday, JoVanna talked to him @ 4pm on Monday, and he got home at 5pm (which is 2 hours after Hellewell talked to him -- per other 'reporting').


Josh Powell told police last week that he left his wife and took his boys, ages 2 and 4, on a camping trip around 12:30 a.m. Dec. 7 in subfreezing temperatures.

Authorities were notified the family was missing when neither Susan nor Josh reported to work and their children were not dropped off at daycare.

Police said Josh Powell told them that he and his children slept in a van and returned home about 5 p.m.


http://wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=104&sid=1837783

[DomCasual]

Originally Posted by Recovering-Lurker

I definitely think there is something to the financial troubles angle. All of the Mormon mothers that I have known stay at home and don't work, at least when the children are young. I'm not trying to generalize, just basing this on what I have experienced. I think Josh made Susan work - another controlling action. Maybe Susan had been stashing money away from her job, so she could divorce Josh and leave with the boys. Maybe Josh found out.

Mormon women work. It's more the exception than the rule. But reality is reality in today's economy. My guess is that my area has about 20% that work.

That said, my wife doesn't work. And I am so grateful that she's willing to do that - so grateful! We have an 11-year-old and a 3-year-old. I can say, without trepidation, that they are the center of our lives. I hear people talk about staying at home as if it's some sort of slight, and - well, I guess I don't get it. I work because we have to pay bills. But my happiness comes from my family. I find almost no satisfaction in working, other than knowing that doing so provides financially for my family. I work from home, despite the fact that I could make significantly more working in an office. I do this, so I can be near my family. I don't know what I'll be doing for work in twenty years - I've always just been in business for myself, and I go where I know I can make money. What I do know is that I'll be my kids' dad. I would fight heaven and hell to make sure they have all that they need.

I guess I say that to just caution against generalities. I am active Mormon, and I am as far from being controlling as could possibly be. I love and respect my wife, and consider her my true partner. Our goals are almost always aligned, but we find common ground when they're not. And the thing is, most Mormon men I know are very similar. I know some crazies - at least, they seem like crazies. But most people are just quietly going about their business, trying to be good husbands, fathers, and citizens.

[Recovering-Lurker]

Originally Posted by DomCasual

Mormon women work. It's more the exception than the rule. But reality is reality in today's economy. My guess is that my area has about 20% that work.

That said, my wife doesn't work. And I am so grateful that she's willing to do that - so grateful! We have an 11-year-old and a 3-year-old. I can say, without trepidation, that they are the center of our lives. I hear people talk about staying at home as if it's some sort of slight, and - well, I guess I don't get it. I work because we have to pay bills. But my happiness comes from my family. I find almost no satisfaction in working, other than knowing that doing so provides financially for my family. I work from home, despite the fact that I could make significantly more working in an office. I do this, so I can be near my family. I don't know what I'll be doing for work in twenty years - I've always just been in business for myself, and I go where I know I can make money. What I do know is that I'll be my kids' dad. I would fight heaven and hell to make sure they have all that they need.

I guess I say that to just caution against generalities. I am active Mormon, and I am as far from being controlling as could possibly be. I love and respect my wife, and consider her my true partner. Our goals are almost always aligned, but we find common ground when they're not. And the thing is, most Mormon men I know are very similar. I know some crazies - at least, they seem like crazies. But most people are just quietly going about their business, trying to be good husbands, fathers, and citizens.

Thanks for your input. I think it's wonderful that a majority stay home. In fact, I admire many aspects of the Mormon family life. I have several family members and acquaintances who are Mormon. I definitely don't see any of the husbands that I know being controlling, etc. In fact, quite the opposite - doing the cooking while camping for a huge family reunion, taking an equal part in caring for the children, etc. Like another poster said, there are evil and crazy people in every religion.

[gliving]

Originally Posted by Bobbisangel

What could be done with a body in the freezing cold with the ground frozen solid? Would a person just take it somewhere and dump it and hope the snow got really deep? How would Josh have taken Susan in the van, dead, with the little boys in the van too? Just thinking how it would have been done.

Yea, I can see him drugging up Susan and the children then waiting until everyone was very much asleep. Load them all up in the van and drive the highway until he finds a convenient mountain ravine to toss Susan. Not much traffic in the mountains at night. But what was the trigger, that very day, that fueled his madness?

In his conscience, he couldn't murder her outright, he just wanted her gone. So he tossed her off a cliff and drove away.

[nursebeeme]

high doses of aspirin or acetaminophen containing products can cause ringing in the ears. I am thinking of something readily available in the home that could cause sedation such as tylenol pm (benedryl and acetominophen) or nyquil (acetaminophen and dexormethorban and other agents that could cause ear ringing and sedation at the same time)

as a nurse I already know that acetominophen and ASA can cause ringing in the ears but here is a link to back it up:

http://health.msn.com/medications/ar...ntid=100181960

[JennaLee]

The following are just my thoughts on the matter:

I don't think there was any child molestation involved. I'd put money on it. I can't explain why but I just have a gut feeling that the kids we're never harmed.

I just don't know about Josh possibly poisoning Susan. I agree it sounds plausible, but I'd have to hear more from the dinner guest as to if she slowly and gradually just seemed to be getting tired over the hour or if it was more sudden, as if she'd just had about 5 mgs Xanax.

I don't think any other woman was involved, especially not Kiirsi as has been theorized before. Again, gut feeling here, but I doubt this guy is another Scott Petersen in that sense.

But WOW, what really hit home is when someone mentioned that Susan may have been stashing away funds. I previously mentioned that my husband can be very controlling. So much so that he's (voluntarily) in counseling for that and anger management, thank God! Previously he was so bad that I opened my own bank account and started stashing away funds myself, just in case.

The absolute worst day of my life was when he found my secret checkbook by a total complete fluke. We have an old house and it was hidden in a small secret panel in the wall he knew nothing about. One cursed day he bumped the wall just right moving something heavy and the stupid panel popped open. Of course he spotted the checkbook and just lost it. I mean, he was just yelling and ranting so bad he wasn't even closely watching me. I discreetly put on my shoes, slowly and carefully slid my cell phone in my pocket, acted like I was just running upstairs to grab a Kleenex, then busted out the door and literally ran as fast as I could. I called my sister who came and picked me up a few streets down and stayed the night with her. My husband called over and over but I wouldn't answer.

Early the next morning I decided to return home, under the protection of my BIL who walked me inside. My husband had been awake all night and looked just horrid. He was not longer angry but tearful and apologetic. I calmly explained to him that the reason I had my own account was because he was so controlling, I felt I needed an escape route. He agreed to go to counseling that same day. I can't help but praise God because it's been 8 months and he has DRASTICALLY improved. We get along so much better now and he no longer tries to run my life.

I do wonder sometimes what would have happened if I hadn't ran. Would he have become physically abusive? Would he have done something totally crazy? I honestly don't know. He's so different than he used to be.

If Josh somehow discovered Susan's precautions, I can definitely see this being a strong motive for him. Those of us who have dealt with controlling spouses in the past know how absolutely essential it is that they feel in control at all times. Take that away from them, and they can really lost it.

[nursebeeme]

here are my problems:

Susan goes to church by herself... ((why didn't Josh go that day? Only Susan knows and she is not here to tell us))

She has a friend over to work on a personal crochet project and they are eating in the living room while josh is in the kitchen eating with the kids

he keeps coming into the living room to talk to them... (checking on if susan is eating and drinking?????)

All of a sudden in the middle of having a friend over to HELP HER... she suddenly is so tired she has to lay down in the early evening hours!!!

AFTER SHE IS OUT OF THE ROOM Josh goes on to tell her (the friend) he is going to take the kids sledding as her friend continues to work on their yarn project. He never mentions sledding in front of Susan who has since "retired" to the bedroom!

hink, hink, hink with a premeditated cherry on top!

[pinkpuddytat]

Originally Posted by NewMommy09

I know there is really no reason to think this, but I must admit that the possibility has crossed my mind that he might have been molesting them in some way. JMO, and just a theory.

Interesting thought. Even though there's no actual evidence pointing to this, it's the first thing I've heard that would provide any sort of rational explanation for a father making a habit of taking two very young boys out on very brief "camping" trips. From the few statements of friends, nanny, etc re the Powell family's odd camping habits, it hasn't been clear whether or not the spur of the moment trips usually or ever included Susan. If they did, then the molestation theory wouldn't make much sense, but if it was normally just Josh and the boys then it's a possibility.

[adnoid]

Originally Posted by lonetraveler

I'm a bit confused about the Smore's part of his story...

That's because it's a stinking pile of nonsense.

[Texas Mist]

Originally Posted by gliving

Yea, I can see him drugging up Susan and the children then waiting until everyone was very much asleep. Load them all up in the van and drive the highway until he finds a convenient mountain ravine to toss Susan. Not much traffic in the mountains at night. But what was the trigger, that very day, that fueled his madness?

In his conscience, he couldn't murder her outright, he just wanted her gone. So he tossed her off a cliff and drove away.

Another plausible theory, gliving....Going w/ that one, I'm trying to figure out how his hands got 'near frostbitten' -- and his face doesn't look chapped or windburned at all....Seems if he were to wear a balaclava or something similar to protect his face, he would have protected his hands w/ gloves.

Now I'm wondering if his 'near frostbitten' hands were done that way on purpose (i.e., "see - I've been out in the freezing cold making snowballs") - or if he had some kind of chemical burns on his hands (from attempting to clean 'the spot' in the living room).

hmmmm -- still thinking on this.

[Amster]

Josh must be LOVING all the people describing his actions as normal....and, his FIL defending him. gag

[pinkpuddytat]

Originally Posted by harleysnana

Susan and her guest were eating in the living room. Spot with fans in the living room….. Okay … weird… What are the chances? Maybe Susan did get sick right then… in the living room. Clean it up yeah…. but dry it out? I have had many things on my carpet but I have never had to put a fan on it to dry it out after I cleaned it up!.

Actually, the eating in the living room with the friend makes the spot on the carpet sound more innocent to me. Spilled food, especially something that tends to stain, would be a very ordinary reason to give a bit of the carpet a thorough scrubbing. A damp section of carpet will pick up dirt from shoes much more easily, so a woman who's into superclean housekeeping would want to get it dry as quickly as possible. Also, lots of people seem to have mold-paranoia these days, which could explain the eagerness to get it dry. And if the original spill involved a lot of liquid (like a glass of juice or soda getting knocked over), there would be a lot of liquid gone through to the carpet pad that would be likely to mold before it dried, and possibly also damage a hardwood floor underneath.

But you'd think if a spill had happened while Josh was still there, he'd have been quick to explain the carpet wet spot. In the unlikely event that Josh's camping trip tale is true, it could also have been something Susan spilled when she got up, not feeling well, to get something to drink. I doubt that's what happened, but it's possible. There are enough indications of oddness about this family that it's possible there's somebody else involved in Susan's disappearance, with or without Josh's knowledge/cooperation.

[pinkpuddytat]

Originally Posted by lonetraveler

I must admit that I'm a bit surprised and puzzled at Susan's father speaking out for Susan's husband. Is the father totally clueless here? He is also speaking out on JVM right now about what a great family they were and how good his daughter's husband is to the children. That they were a happy family.

It's possible the father is following police instructions to act as if he doesn't suspect Josh of any wrongdoing. It would make sense, because the police themselves have kept saying Josh isn't a suspect, despite the fact that he obviously is. If the police feel that encouraging Josh to believe they don't really think he's responsible will help elicit more information, then it would be perfectly reasonable for them to ask Susan's family to go along with the ploy, and perfectly reasonable for them to agree to do so.

[gliving]

Originally Posted by Texas Mist

Now I'm wondering if his 'near frostbitten' hands were done that way on purpose (i.e., "see - I've been out in the freezing cold making snowballs") - or if he had some kind of chemical burns on his hands (from attempting to clean 'the spot' in the living room).

hmmmm -- still thinking on this.

Maybe he used a Coleman stove to 'roast the marshmallows' and a leaky connection caused a flareup. I've seen that happen and it will burn the hair off your fingers.

[mushyb]

Could he possible have a drug addiction? Maybe meth and he would take the kids to go "camping" as a way to be away and indulge? doubtful, but just a thought i had. u never know what skeletons some people can have in their closet. Maybe that is why he couldn't hold a job and had financial problems. JMO

[passionflower]

IMO, what set JP off was festering for a long time within him.
Long term fighting, living like room mates, no sex? financial problems,
Susan working, Susan had friends (did he?) Susan saving money,
Susan talking divorse, Susan taking HIS SONS! Susan is beautiful
and EVERYONE loves her. JP is so jealous of the perfect Susan.
He hates her,


I see allot to set him off and for him to make his own plan.
IMO, he used something to get her 'sick',
waited for Susan's friend to leave.
Something BAD happened in the livingroom, lose of body fluids.
JP puts a drosey, dead Susan in passenger seat of van.
through attached garage, UNSEEN.

Bundles up the boys for sledding fun. That's all the 5 year old can think of!
Goes to the nearest woods, ravine, backs up van (boy's can't see)
Takes Susan and sled out....occupies boys with DVD? candy?
Dumps Susan, dead or alive...........in a few minutes, carelessly.

Takes boys sledding and out to eat as stated (cookies and hot cocoa?)
They are sleepy and he returns home at 8:30.

first alibi

Puts sleeping kids to bed.
Cleans up kitchen, bedroom and mess on livingroom floor.
an intruder could care less about the carpet!!!
or know where fans are!!!

Makes plans to load up food, clothes,diapers
and make it look like they went camping with generator etc.
Loads van, loads sleeping babes in van.
Takes off, son's sleep for hours.
They awake, he cares for all their needs.

Plans to come home later in evening but has to come
back early because the word is out that Susan is missing!
and he is caught in a big fat lies!

He drives around lost for hours to get his head straightened out.
He gets 2 phone calls from Susan's friends looking for Susan.......


Makes up the rest as we have seen. JMOO

[nursebeeme]

I think he is a lilly livered control freak bent on controling lots of aspects in his life. One friend said he controlled his wife, his children, etc.

I think if he got a whiff that his control was coming to an end soon (ie, wife done with him and planning to move on shortly) this would be bigger than a splinter in his toe... more like an axe in his heart and he had to pull it out immediately.

I also think there was most likely a trigger to the event but we don't know it yet. Since he has lawyered up... unless the forensics speak and other evidence from the vehicle, unless her body is found soon we may never know what went on in that house that night.

I seriously pray that forensics can play along with the already BLAZING circumstantial evidence..... I do NOT see him giving up where he put her at this point... not with his current representation.

LE getting any further info from him at this point.........NIL.

[lonetraveler]

Originally Posted by Pondering Mind

bbm~

I don't think so lone..at least not from what I've read so far. I do believe that he most likely had Susan with him, but if he wasn't planning on coming back, I don't think he would have left the 2 fans on to dry the wet spot on the carpet. He probably wouldn't have cleaned it at all OR at least would have let it dry by itself.
Re: earlier post about 'smores'. I can't even hardly type that it sounds so ridiculous, but what I have read and someone please correct me if I'm wrong...but in the one article he said that they often go on last minute camping trips and fix smores and stuff like that....never did read that they did make smores this time..in the wee hours of the morning...with 2 young boys..in sub freezing temps...on a Sunday nite because he forgot what day it was...then forgot to mention the camping trip to Susans father on the single occasion that he spoke to him...Really...you couldn't make this up if you tried...if it wasn't so horrible one would almost have to laugh..

Yep, Friend, you're right. I misremembered LOL, about the fan drying the floor. He evidently did not think that LE would be involved prior to him returning. I think surely that Susan was with them when they left to go "camping". Maybe not breathing, but with them nonetheless. I would really not want to be his attorney right now. It would be really difficult to look him in the eyes while he is telling his side of the story, KWIM?

[SusanB]

I agree with you, pink. The family must go along with LE to keep Josh from believing he is already the POI, and therefore may keep talking, but now that he has lawyered up the situation may change. Also LE does not want him to take off with the children or commit some other heinous act like suicide/homicide, as he already exhibited signs of mental dysfunction.