Hand off of Gabriel at Raymond Rimkus Park

[Litlred]

snip

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/so...0ifjg.cspx?p=2

McQueary says he believes Gabriel is still alive, considering he and Johnson were last seen at a park after McQueary received the threatening messages.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BBM:

In this article are they speaking of Raymond Rimkus Park? The article does not state which park.

According to this comment EJ and Gabriel were seen. ...Seen as in witness?

[Litlred]

I keep running accross Raymond Rimkus park in this paper but I can't make heads or tails of all the mixed up postings.

http://www.24horasnewspaper.com/mostranews.php?l=5356

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by Litlred

snip

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/so...0ifjg.cspx?p=2

That's a reporter saying his interpretation of what Logan said. I am confident that statement is incorrect.

[TXHOPE]

Originally Posted by BeanE

That's a reporter saying his interpretation of what Logan said. I am confident that statement is incorrect.

That's what I thought because we figured out the times on a different thread with the timezone change from AZ to TX and when the text/phone call was made and it matched almost exactly with the time where she was seen sitting in the car in front of the Motel 6 for 10 to 15 min, before getting out of the car to walk over to the bus station.

[Litlred]

Originally Posted by BeanE

That's a reporter saying his interpretation of what Logan said. I am confident that statement is incorrect.

I went way back and got this article from the first thread started here 1/1/10. I'm so hoping for a witness, a live witness to come forward. I'm wondering did the 3rd party, the couple or any combination know of this park in advance as secluded? Maybe HG knew of this park. Seems to me there are 3 to 4 people (maybe more) that took part of this handoff.

[kissdegirl]

We were discussing in another thread about the HG, and how we cannot confirm or deny it was 1 person, correct?

What about the couple EJ handed Gabriel off to? We know there is "a" couple, they were sighted with EJ and HG at the hotel. Can we assume it's the same couple she was to give Gabriel to, or not since we don't have any sightings of them all together in the park by the same person that saw them at the hotel? I'm thinking it's the same couple. They came, spent some time with EJ/Gabriel, and when EJ was finally on the ledge and decided to keep running, she gave him to them in the park. I think they may in fact have been staying near that park (hotel maybe), and EJ planned to get on the bus that Sunday, so the exchange took place there, she went shopping (maybe that's her kind of therapy), and then headed over to the bus station.

IMO there is no phantom couple, because they were spotted with EJ at the hotel.

Per the case calendar

In the video with this news article, the reporter says a witness says Elizabeth was seen with a Hispanic male and a couple in the hotel parking lot on Christmas day.

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroo...medium=twitter

This may have occurred on either Dec 24 or Dec 25.

From MissingGabe:

- The sighting of Elizabeth with the Hispanic man and the couple in the parking lot of the hotel was on either December 24 or 25


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4882331

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by kissdegirl

We were discussing in another thread about the HG, and how we cannot confirm or deny it was 1 person, correct?

What about the couple EJ handed Gabriel off to? We know there is "a" couple, they were sighted with EJ and HG at the hotel. Can we assume it's the same couple she was to give Gabriel to, or not since we don't have any sightings of them all together in the park by the same person that saw them at the hotel? I'm thinking it's the same couple. They came, spent some time with EJ/Gabriel, and when EJ was finally on the ledge and decided to keep running, she gave him to them in the park. I think they may in fact have been staying near that park (hotel maybe), and EJ planned to get on the bus that Sunday, so the exchange took place there, she went shopping (maybe that's her kind of therapy), and then headed over to the bus station.

IMO there is no phantom couple, because they were spotted with EJ at the hotel.

Per the case calendar

I don't think it's the same couple because the couple in the park needed a code word to identify themselves.

[Boo Scout]

The Today Show referenced a foundation for Gabriel at the end of the clip, and the foundation has a website.

I thought this was interesting b/c it seemed like the most detailed description of the couple EJ allegedly handed Gabriel to in this park

Snipped

According to police reports and media, Elizabeth Johnson claims she gave baby Gabriel to an unknown Caucasian couple in their mid to late 30’s or early 40’s at Raymond Rimkus Park on Evers Rd. on December 27 at approximately 10:00 a.m. The male is described as husky, approximately 5’10” – 6’ and clean shaven, with dark brown or black hair. He was wearing a white polo shirt, and dark pants. The female is described as slender, approximately 5’6” with blonde hair that fell below the shoulder. She was wearing dark blue jeans and a red sweater.

http://babygabrielfoundation.org/story.html

[rekabal]

Originally Posted by Boo Scout

Snipped

According to police reports and media, Elizabeth Johnson claims she gave baby Gabriel to an unknown Caucasian couple in their mid to late 30’s or early 40’s at Raymond Rimkus Park on Evers Rd. on December 27 at approximately 10:00 a.m. The male is described as husky, approximately 5’10” – 6’ and clean shaven, with dark brown or black hair. He was wearing a white polo shirt, and dark pants. The female is described as slender, approximately 5’6” with blonde hair that fell below the shoulder. She was wearing dark blue jeans and a red sweater.

http://babygabrielfoundation.org/story.html

I wonder if EJ was cooperative enough or provided enough information that they could put together a composite sketch of this couple? That would be helpful. But, then I wonder if the PI doesn't want something like that released to "spook" them?

[noopy]

Originally Posted by rekabal

I wonder if EJ was cooperative enough or provided enough information that they could put together a composite sketch of this couple? That would be helpful. But, then I wonder if the PI doesn't want something like that released to "spook" them?

The PI was pleading for public's help to locate this couple the last time he was on TV, I think if he had a sketch, he would want it released. But I think there is no sketch, zero help from EJ... IMOO.

[kappy50]

Originally Posted by BeanE

I don't think it's the same couple because the couple in the park needed a code word to identify themselves.

I've been really thinking about this. If there were 2 different couples, then how odd is it the description of the male and female the same ??? Am I missing something here ??

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by kappy50

I've been really thinking about this. If there were 2 different couples, then how odd is it the description of the male and female the same ??? Am I missing something here ??

I had to think about this one for a few minutes.

EJ has told about -
- the original couple at the original park (or what we thought was a different park)
- the couple in the hotel room
- the couple at Raymond Rinkus park

I think all those are the same.

A witness told about a couple in the parking lot with the HG. That is the one I thought was being referred to, and the one I was saying I thought was different because of needing a code word. I would have to go back and check, but I don't think that couple's description has ever been publicly released.

EJ's three couples above, I think are one and the same couple. I think the first park mention was a misunderstanding of which park she was referring to, plus she gave a story that seemed different - it appeared she was saying they dropped down out of the sky.

The couple being in the hotel room, we got from Tammi saying that was what EJ said, and I wouldn't be surprised if Tammi was lying. But EJ could have changed the scenario, placing the same couple in a different setting (from park to hotel room).

Well now I'm thinking on of the LE/court docs has a handover of Gabe in the hotel parking lot, but that is not the same as the couple in the parking lot that the witness claimed to see. The witness said they didn't see Gabe at all - just EJ, the HG, and the couple in the hotel parking lot.

I'm going to go take a peek at the LE/court docs.

ETA: Okay EJ's charging document says in her FBI interview shortly after her arrest she said she gave Gabe to a couple at a park.

Now I'll see what I can find on a description for the couple with the HG in the hotel parking lot.

[kappy50]

Originally Posted by BeanE

I had to think about this one for a few minutes.

EJ has told about -
- the original couple at the original park (or what we thought was a different park)
- the couple in the hotel room
- the couple at Raymond Rinkus park

I think all those are the same.

A witness told about a couple in the parking lot with the HG. That is the one I thought was being referred to, and the one I was saying I thought was different because of needing a code word. I would have to go back and check, but I don't think that couple's description has ever been publicly released.

EJ's three couples above, I think are one and the same couple. I think the first park mention was a misunderstanding of which park she was referring to, plus she gave a story that seemed different - it appeared she was saying they dropped down out of the sky.

The couple being in the hotel room, we got from Tammi saying that was what EJ said, and I wouldn't be surprised if Tammi was lying. But EJ could have changed the scenario, placing the same couple in a different setting (from park to hotel room).

Well now I'm thinking on of the LE/court docs has a handover of Gabe in the hotel parking lot, but that is not the same as the couple in the parking lot that the witness claimed to see. The witness said they didn't see Gabe at all - just EJ, the HG, and the couple in the hotel parking lot.

I'm going to go take a peek at the LE/court docs.

ETA: Okay EJ's charging document says in her FBI interview shortly after her arrest she said she gave Gabe to a couple at a park.

Now I'll see what I can find on a description for the couple with the HG in the hotel parking lot.

Well if the 3 EJ mentioned are the same, then that would contradicte what Mr.Gamble said about having had no communication with them prior to the hand off ( or something to that effect)...

[BeanE]

This is the only description I found for the couple in the hotel parking lot with EJ and the HG. It's from NG. Age the same, but no hair color, height, etc.

GRACE: Tell me some more, Michael Board, about the specifics of these people Mommy was spotted with.

BOARD: Well, it is very shaky. We don`t have a specific — we don`t even have a hair color or a size. We know that the Hispanic male that she met with twice is apparently in his late 20s. And she also had a meeting with a couple that the witnesses believe are in their late 30s.

ETA: description comes from a witness, not EJ.

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by kappy50

Well if the 3 EJ mentioned are the same, then that would contradicte what Mr.Gamble said about having had no communication with them prior to the hand off ( or something to that effect)...

I'm trying to think. I remember Tammi said Elizabeth said she spent 3 days with the couple, but I don't recall EJ ever saying that herself, e.g., in the jail interview with the reporter. Everything about the couple in the hotel room story came from Tammi, not EJ. That is, Tammi said EJ told that story - we never heard any of it from EJ herself.

I don't remember anything else about communication prior to the day of handoff, the 27th in EJ's stories off the top of my head. Was there something else?

[kissdegirl]

Originally Posted by kappy50

Well if the 3 EJ mentioned are the same, then that would contradicte what Mr.Gamble said about having had no communication with them prior to the hand off ( or something to that effect)...

Unless, going off of what he had as verifiable info, the meeting in the park was the intended plan, but it changed last minute? This might even explain EJ's changing story. If she wrote down the park, codeword and such, and was going to meet them there, but the plan changed, and maybe they came earlier and met her at the hotel (maybe because the 3rd party didn't trust EJ), then EJ could have easily tried to throw LE off by giving the "conflicting" stories???

[kappy50]

Originally Posted by BeanE

This is the only description I found for the couple in the hotel parking lot with EJ and the HG. It's from NG. Age the same, but no hair color, height, etc.

GRACE: Tell me some more, Michael Board, about the specifics of these people Mommy was spotted with.

BOARD: Well, it is very shaky. We don`t have a specific — we don`t even have a hair color or a size. We know that the Hispanic male that she met with twice is apparently in his late 20s. And she also had a meeting with a couple that the witnesses believe are in their late 30s.

ETA: description comes from a witness, not EJ.

This is the one I found as well. I'm still searching to see if I can find anything else...

[danisisa]

I don't think that hand off happened there. I think it was plan that was never executed. I believe Gabriel was picked up on the 26th, hence the last photos with the Beanie on his head.

I thknk she checked the park out previous, hence the description..If I am new to an area, and have a time to be somewhere, I always will go to the place 1st to make sure I am on time. JMO

[kappy50]

Originally Posted by BeanE

I'm trying to think. I remember Tammi said Elizabeth said she spent 3 days with the couple, but I don't recall EJ ever saying that herself, e.g., in the jail interview with the reporter. Everything about the couple in the hotel room story came from Tammi, not EJ. That is, Tammi said EJ told that story - we never heard any of it from EJ herself.

I don't remember anything else about communication prior to the day of handoff, the 27th in EJ's stories off the top of my head. Was there something else?

Well I just think that the "Other Couple" is important, if there was indeed another "Couple". Let me see if I think I have this straight:

1. Witness says, not EJ, another couple in hotel parking lot. But no true identification. Weird, they knew the HG guy was a HG guy...but nothing more on the couple ??? I find that odd.
2. EJ described couple she came in contact with. In various places. Whether it was Raymond Russell Park or Raymond Rimkus Park or the hotel.

I would just like to know, as many of us here who have worked so hard trying to figure this out, was there indeed (2) separate couples ??

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by kappy50

Well I just think that the "Other Couple" is important, if there was indeed another "Couple". Let me see if I think I have this straight:

1. Witness says, not EJ, another couple in hotel parking lot. But no true identification. Weird, they knew the HG guy was a HG guy...but nothing more on the couple ??? I find that odd.
2. EJ described couple she came in contact with. In various places. Whether it was Raymond Russell Park or Raymond Rimkus Park or the hotel.

I would just like to know, as many of us here who have worked so hard trying to figure this out, was there indeed (2) separate couples ??

I would imagine the witness did give a description, but it just hasn't been released.

We may never know how many couples there were or if there were any. The only person who knows for sure is Elizabeth.

[BeanE]

This is the video interview of Tammi after the interview of Elizabeth by the reporter when EJ was in jail in FL (Jan 5).

Tammi: "She ditched the car with every ounce of information about the family."

I guess Tammi didn't know about that journal. Oops.

[Khristi]

This may sound very hi - tech, but I am wondering if there are any satellite images. That is, if there are images from satellites on 12/27 at 10 am to prove if she did infact hand the baby off. In this day and age, satellite images capture minute details down to the smallest images. The FBI is on this case, so they would have satellite images that they can pull. Or I am wondering if there are cameras, some near the hotel, or some near the park to confirm or reject the idea that she handed the baby off. In a case like this, you need old school detective work and high tech modern images to help crack the case, and a little luck too. It may sound strange, but I think the FBI should try to see if they have satellite images of her at those times and dates. I'm sure they have checked survelleince and security too, but we are still at the point that the case is still open. So let's all Pray the LE gets a break... to bring this baby home.

[kappy50]

I'm not sure where I am going with this, but I'm still thinking. It's 12/27 based on the weather that day..Low was 33 degrees/ hi 61....(coat weather for me)... but by10 am in the morning it could've could've warmed up a bit...but a polo shirt for a male (could be long sleeved) and just a sweater for a female seems light....not to say that that's not appropriate for some.....and not to say that EJ wasn't telling the truth....because I do believe she was...but if someone was in a hurry they may just throw something on, go do it and come right back....just a thought...

[fran]

Originally Posted by BeanE

This is the video interview of Tammi after the interview of Elizabeth by the reporter when EJ was in jail in FL (Jan 5).

Tammi: "She ditched the car with every ounce of information about the family."

I guess Tammi didn't know about that journal. Oops.

BBM Keeping this in mind, do you recall WHERE LM was when his car was burglarized and the GPS was stolen? Whoever stole it MAY have thought it was the GPS EJ used during her trip with INFORMATION on it.

I did look for that info, but couldn't locate it.

TIA
fran

[kappy50]

Originally Posted by fran

BBM Keeping this in mind, do you recall WHERE LM was when his car was burglarized and the GPS was stolen? Whoever stole it MAY have thought it was the GPS EJ used during her trip with INFORMATION on it.

I did look for that info, but couldn't locate it.

TIA
fran

Fran..I'm thinking that was just a random burglary.