GUILTY UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #8

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DairyGirl said:
I would agree with you but Joe has already stated that he wants them to receive the DP. If it weren't for that I would hope they would plead, too. I am praying for him.
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If that's the case, then I'm all for it. It was on FB that Joe was notified of the ME findings the day (or 2) before the charges were filed. I don't know how detailed they would have been, but I wonder if the reason they are delaying the decision to make it a DP case is to give the family time to decide if they want to go through that in a trial. How utterly horrifying, for everyone. When I think of those outside the family who've seen first-hand what that baby endured, it makes me sick. LE, ME, DA, the funeral home personnel, and soon the judge and jury. As much as it has obviously affected us just reading what little has been disclosed, I can't imagine what those people are going through and the nightmares they must have, or how they could possibly get over this. Those monsters have ruined a lot of lives.
 
Fairy1 said:
Very often in cases where children are killed by one or both of their parents, I almost feel a sense of relief. That the babies didn't have to grow up in an environment of violence and/or neglect. I'm sorry to say that, but that's how I feel.

But in this case, Ethan was thriving right where he was. He was loved and cared for by those around him. SS did NOT want him for any purpose but to hurt Joe. She didn't love that sweet baby nor did she want to care for him, IMO. She is every bit as guilty as her "man." They both deserve to die, but whatever death to which the state of UT sentences them, it will not be enough. If it's not EXACTLY the way that baby died, it will not be fair or just.
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BBM

He was cherished. To go from such love to such evil and murdered within days... and my heart breaks to think of what must have been going through Ethan's mind during those days.

This poem is reprinted with permission. (it was also posted a few threads back)

Dear Mommy,

I didn’t want to come to Utah
I’ll miss my daddy so
I don’t have any friends here ...
But, the judge told my daddy I had to go.

But, I think that we’ll have fun together-
Maybe we can go to the park?
Maybe we can watch cartoons
Or play hide and seek in the dark.

Maybe we can bake a cake
Or we can play on the slide
Or you know I like to color and draw-
We can use chalk on the street outside.

Mommy, I didn’t mean to fall
And drop your plate and make it shatter.
I was running too fast to help clean up
I’m sorry … the reason doesn’t matter.

Mommy, please – I’m really sorry
I will always do what you say
Or I know that I’ll get slapped again.
But, he seems to do it anyway.

Mommy, I’m sorry that I can’t stop crying
I’ll go straight to bed.
I just can’t help it… I’m so tired
Please tell him to stop hitting my head.

Mom, stop taking pictures-
I just don’t feel like I can smile.
Mom, can I please have some medicine?
My head’s been hurting for a while.

Mommy I’m sorry that I got so dirty
And, I know that it’s a lesson I have to learn.
Please let me out of this bath tub
It’s hot and my legs are starting to burn.

Mom, is that my dad on the phone?
Can I please tell him hi?
I promise I won’t tell him your boyfriend hurts me-
And, I promise I won’t cry.

Mom, please let me out of here.
I’m hungry and tired and sad.
Can I please have some dinner?
Just a little bit- I promise I won’t make you mad.

Mommy, where are you?
I need you to help me please.
Mommy…PLEASE… I need your help
I am begging on my knees.

Mommy, I think I’m tired now
I have no more tears to cry.
I probably won’t wake up this time
So, this is my goodbye-

Mommy- I am just so little
And, I didn’t mean to make you mad.
I’m going up to heaven now-
And, really….I’m kind of glad.

But, mom, one thing before I go
I just need to say-
Please tell my dad I love him.
But, I will be okay.

I am going to heaven now.
And I won’t hurt anymore.
I will smile and run around
And I will be able to act like I’m four.

Please-I never got to tell my dad
And, I just want him to be sure-
That he knows, that I know, that I was his world
And he tried to protect me from who he knew you were.

Mother- I can’t stay awake anymore
My eyes are closing…I can’t see.
I wonder if you will be shown the mercy
That you were never able to show me.

Tell my dad I’m sorry I couldn’t come home.
But I am going to heaven today.
But, I’ll be watching him from up above
And I’ll show him I’m there in my very own way.

He’ll see my smile in the sunshine
He’ll feel my warmth from it’s rays.
I will wait in heaven for him.
Until it’s his time to come this way.

Please bless my dad, and those who will cry
Because I am leaving earth this way.
Please thank them for their love and ask them
To please help get justice for kids like me today.

Love,

Ethan


by Stephanie Johnson-Hart
 
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=10822257

At the same time, domestic violence counselors are questioning whether Stephanie Sloop was abused as well.

The question of mental illness

Nathan Sloop's attorney, Todd Utzinger, is urging patience in the case.

It's too early to know how claims of a multiple personality disorder might play into any defense, such as an insanity plea, according to attorney Todd Utzinger."The prosecutor in the case, Troy Rawlings, is trying to do his job carefully, and we also are trying to do our job carefully," Utzinger told KSL Newsradio on Tuesday.

Part of that job will be to check out claims that Sloop has a multiple personality disorder. Utzinger said he's obligated to check out the claims that, so far, he's only heard in media reports. He said it's too early to know how that might play into any defense, such as an insanity plea.


snipped...


Meanwhile, domestic violence counselors are questioning whether there were any early warning signs that perhaps could have saved Ethan Stacy from his fate.

snipped...


"If the woman is a victim of abuse or violence by her partner, then the children are," said Kathy Franchek, UDVC council member and assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Utah's School of Medicine.

"It's not an absolute," she continued, "but our impression is someone who is abusive to their partner is not going to have the same appropriate way to act with their children."
 
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10814747

The FBI has now entered the investigation into the death of Ethan Stacy, partly because of its expertise in examining electronic evidence, which could provide valuable clues in the timeline of violence that led to the boy's death.


One of the photos the FBI is investigating is this one, which was posted on Stephanie Sloop's Facebook page. The Layton City Police Department says it is aware of a Facebook photo that has created a lot of buzz in the case. The lieutenant KSL News spoke to would not go into details, but he said it's definitely part of the investigation.


snipped...

But since there is so much electronic data in this case, the FBI was called in because of their specialized laboratory.

The agency only has 16 of these labs across the country, and one happens to be right here in Salt Lake City.

"In any case where you might have audio, video or other kinds of digital evidence, the regional computer forensic lab would be a great resource," Horn says.

Horn says there is always a possibility that people will manipulate electronic data by using programs like Photoshop. However, he says these forensic scientists are highly trained to tell the difference between what's real and what's fake.
 
Paintr said:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=10822257

At the same time, domestic violence counselors are questioning whether Stephanie Sloop was abused as well.

The question of mental illness

Nathan Sloop's attorney, Todd Utzinger, is urging patience in the case.

It's too early to know how claims of a multiple personality disorder might play into any defense, such as an insanity plea, according to attorney Todd Utzinger."The prosecutor in the case, Troy Rawlings, is trying to do his job carefully, and we also are trying to do our job carefully," Utzinger told KSL Newsradio on Tuesday.

Part of that job will be to check out claims that Sloop has a multiple personality disorder. Utzinger said he's obligated to check out the claims that, so far, he's only heard in media reports. He said it's too early to know how that might play into any defense, such as an insanity plea.


snipped...


Meanwhile, domestic violence counselors are questioning whether there were any early warning signs that perhaps could have saved Ethan Stacy from his fate.

snipped...


"If the woman is a victim of abuse or violence by her partner, then the children are," said Kathy Franchek, UDVC council member and assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Utah's School of Medicine.

"It's not an absolute," she continued, "but our impression is someone who is abusive to their partner is not going to have the same appropriate way to act with their children."
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Well, I saw a photo of Ethan with his jaw and face so battered, bruised and swollen, he was unable to close his mouth, he had bruising on his neck, ear, forehead and eyes and an apparent ligature mark around the base of his neck. And police tell us the injuries grew progressively worse.

I've yet to see a single mark on SS.

So ... I'll go out on a limb and call BS on her being abused.

I think what's happening is people are looking for an excuse / justification / rationalization / whatever --- that a mother could possibly do what she did to her son. Sorry... she's an inhuman monster who didn't give a crap about her son. Simple as that.

"I sold my son" -- SS


eta: this isn't directed at you, paintr, but at the professor and others like her.
 
Cubby said:
I hope they do to but...... and this is horrible to think about, but with as much as these two despised Joe along with BeanE's theory on why SS would post photo's of Ethan being abused - (the theory, IIRC, was to sell those photo's) it is possible they won't plead simply because they know how much it would torture Joe. Along with torturing those who loved Ethan and ALL those who must sit through a trial. Not pleading and forcing a trial would be both of their way to say HA HA HA one last time..... Especially since they know they have nothing to lose and getting the DP would ensure they were not allowed into the GP if I understand correctly.

The thought of it makes me ill..... but I could see these two enjoying watching those attending a trial being horrified. SS and NS already endured it....

The only way I see them pleading is if NS wishes to spare his mother seeing everything put out on the table at trial.

JMO
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but ill they enjoy the final verdict and their final fate?
 
Jaxson said:
I have felt all along that SS was the one in control and NS was just trying to please her. I'm not placing guilt here, but I think that Joe signed Ethan's death warrant (unknowingly!) when he stated in the divorce that he was afraid SS would take Ethan and he would never see him again. I think he let SS know in no uncertain terms that Ethan was his life (not her) and just how to cause him the most pain that she could. Unfortunately she didn't want the care of Ethan so she had to kill him. Nathan's daughter is probably one lucky little girl.
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It all sound way to sick --- she could have left him with Joe and moved on with her life. Taking the child just to kill him is not what my brain can make sense of. Seems that Nathans kids are alive, not dead, but his posts on another site, show his mentality to harm, and kill. So I don't know how to wrap my brain around any of this.
but I have been shocked before on these threads.
 
When I saw the photos of NS in court he looked totally disturbing, he was probably coming off all the pills and any other drug they might have been doing, he looked extremly angry and I'm betting that he is regretting ever meeting SS. I fully think she controlled that situation. We know that NS had issues and that led to the demise of Ethan but I won't be surprised one bit if we find out that SS had more to do with encouraging the actions of NS. I also do not think that NS would have hurt his own daughter in this way, I think he may have been taking out some of his issues of not having his daughter in the way he wanted on Ethan, JMO.

I am glad that Joe let SS parents attend the funeral, it shows what a way better person he is than SS and I'm sure that sent her into a complete hissy fit knowing they attended Ethans funeral and I'm glad she has so far had no family in court for her, it must make her feel like crap that NS mother was there for him but no one was there for her. :dance:
 
crimejunkie said:
I am not sure, but that I read on here that you were not allowed to pull something from another site and bring it over here. I hope that it's ok to post a link. If it's not, please let me know.

In the comments section of the article posted today about Nathan and Stephanie, there was a comment on page 3 by Spookylilgirl, who knew the couple via chat rooms. She had some interesting comments and posted some favorite sayings of Nathan's. If I am allowed to post these, please let me know. Otherwise, here's the link:

http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=15190371&PageIndex=3
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Oh...My...God!!!! I didnt think I could feel any sicker!!!
 
songline said:
It all sound way to sick --- she could have left him with Joe and moved on with her life. Taking the child just to kill him is not what my brain can make sense of. Seems that Nathans kids are alive, not dead, but his posts on another site, show his mentality to harm, and kill. So I don't know how to wrap my brain around any of this.
but I have been shocked before on these threads.
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Like Antoinette Davis handing over little Shaniya to be raped. Unthinkable...
 
Calliope said:
Well, I saw a photo of Ethan with his jaw and face so battered, bruised and swollen, he was unable to close his mouth, he had bruising on his neck, ear, forehead and eyes and an apparent ligature mark around the base of his neck. And police tell us the injuries grew progressively worse.

I've yet to see a single mark on SS.

So ... I'll go out on a limb and call BS on her being abused.

I think what's happening is people are looking for an excuse / justification / rationalization / whatever --- that a mother could possibly do what she did to her son. Sorry... she's an inhuman monster who didn't give a crap about her son. Simple as that.

"I sold my son" -- SS


eta: this isn't directed at you, paintr, but at the professor and others like her.
Click to expand...

AGREE!!! While certainly the above is true in most cases, I think this is entirely different. This is no textbook abuse case, this is about two evil,sociopathic monsters coming together in the perfect storm, and that poor baby bore the horrible consequences.
 
crimejunkie said:
I am not sure, but that I read on here that you were not allowed to pull something from another site and bring it over here. I hope that it's ok to post a link. If it's not, please let me know.

In the comments section of the article posted today about Nathan and Stephanie, there was a comment on page 3 by Spookylilgirl, who knew the couple via chat rooms. She had some interesting comments and posted some favorite sayings of Nathan's. If I am allowed to post these, please let me know. Otherwise, here's the link:

http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=15190371&PageIndex=3
Click to expand...

WOW...her comments about his favorite sayings, now I really do not think he would have ever put his own daughter through this kind of torture or even allowed Stephanie to hurt her. He had no problem killing some other mans child to ensure his f'd up genes dominated this not in touch with reality, sick relationship.:sick:
 
I think that this was their way of proving their commitment to each other, not only in what they did --- destroying the connection SS had with her ex, ensuring NS' genes were dominant, whatever sick reasons there may have been --- but in the cover up as well. A pact, as it were.

And so imagine NS' surprise when the love of his life, his soul mate, betrayed him and threw him under the bus, claiming he'd threatened her, that she was terrified of him, that he was the one who brutally tortured her son while she stood helplessly aside, afraid for her own life.

I betcha they showed NS a tape of her interview, and that's why he tore up his holding cell.
 
Calliope said:
I think that this was their way of proving their commitment to each other, not only in what they did --- destroying the connection SS had with her ex, ensuring NS' genes were dominant, whatever sick reasons there may have been --- but in the cover up as well. A pact, as it were.

And so imagine NS' surprise when the love of his life, his soul mate, betrayed him and threw him under the bus, claiming he'd threatened her, that she was terrified of him, that he was the one who brutally tortured her son while she stood helplessly aside, afraid for her own life.

I betcha they showed NS a tape of her interview, and that's why he tore up his holding cell.
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Yes, and then he started singing like a canary.
 
songline said:
It all sound way to sick --- she could have left him with Joe and moved on with her life. Taking the child just to kill him is not what my brain can make sense of. Seems that Nathans kids are alive, not dead, but his posts on another site, show his mentality to harm, and kill. So I don't know how to wrap my brain around any of this.
but I have been shocked before on these threads.
Click to expand...
I don't believe Stephanie took Ethan with the intention of murdering him. I think Stephanie took him for two main reasons:

1). Because she could. Because it was a way to hurt Joe. Stephanie getting Ethan for the summer, especially against Joe's greatest fears and wishes- that he made public in a court document- was a 'win' for Stephanie, in Stephanie's mind. It was a big "HA, HA, HA" directed at Joe.

2). Because it was a way for her to get more money. When she thought of Ethan, she thought of dollar signs. I believe she was planning on hitting Joe up for 'child support' (whether official or under the table) during Ethan's summer stay. I believe she was also going to try and get all the government assistance (food stamps, etc., etc.) that she possibly could, and it's much easier to get that state aid if you have a young child.

~ I also believe that when it came time to return Ethan to Joe at the end of Ethan's summer stay, she was going to refuse- unless and until Joe gave her some kind of cash pay-off to return Ethan. In effect, she was planning on making Joe buy back his son. She was going 'to sell' Ethan again.

~ I think there is also a chance that Stephanie had a tiny afterthought reason to take Ethan: to show her 'man', Nathan, what a great 'mommy' she is. Kind of a 'look how great I am, I'm such a good mom and woman' type thing. Like how we are told she presented herself to her former co-workers while she was still married to Joe.

But something went wrong. Something angered her. It was probably something innocuous that set her off- like Ethan referring to Joe's fiancee Becky, or maybe Joe's other ex-wife Michelle, as 'Mommy' in Stephanie's presence. Ethan was only four years old, he was in a new, unfamiliar place and situation with two people he barely knew (who were probably both using drugs, imo), and probably emotionally stressed, which is understandable. For some reason I keep thinking the word 'Mommy' came out of his mouth, and Stephanie was embarrassed in front of Nathan that Ethan didn't mean her.

I wouldn't be surprised if the physical abuse was actually started by Stephanie. She may have slapped Ethan, Ethan would have started crying, and then Nathan, wanting to show his support to, and solidarity with Stephanie, told her to stand back, that he'll "take care of this".

Being the macho guy that Nathan viewed himself as, he took on the roll of 'firm disciplinarian', and took a little 4 year old child into the bedroom, and beat the daylights out of him.

From that point on, the more Ethan cried (and Ethan would have naturally been hysterical after the first beating) the more it would enrage Nathan, and in turn Stephanie.

At some point, they completely stopped seeing Ethan as a child, (if they ever did to begin with), and he simply became their personal little punching bag.
 
I think the more the abuse escalated (and I feel it escalated very quickly), the more it became a force on it's own. A force of 'Evil'.

They felt empowered. They felt more like a 'team' than ever before. All the hatred they each had built up inside co-mingled, and was taken out on a little boy who had prior to that known nothing but love, affection, and protection from the adults in his life.

Ethan had to have been so frightened, and so confused, and so alone.

I believe that the most brutal of the physical injuries probably came from Nathan, but even if Stephanie did nothing more than stand back and allow it to happen, her indifference proved to be just as brutal.
 
smart blonde said:
I don't believe Stephanie took Ethan with the intention of murdering him. I think Stephanie took him for two main reasons:

1). Because she could. Because it was a way to hurt Joe. Stephanie getting Ethan for the summer, especially against Joe's greatest fears and wishes- that he made public in a court document- was a 'win' for Stephanie, in Stephanie's mind. It was a big "HA, HA, HA" directed at Joe.

2). Because it was a way for her to get more money. When she thought of Ethan, she thought of dollar signs. I believe she was planning on hitting Joe up for 'child support' (whether official or under the table) during Ethan's summer stay. I believe she was also going to try and get all the government assistance (food stamps, etc., etc.) that she possibly could, and it's much easier to get that state aid if you have a young child.

~ I also believe that when it came time to return Ethan to Joe at the end of Ethan's summer stay, she was going to refuse- unless and until Joe gave her some kind of cash pay-off to return Ethan. In effect, she was planning on making Joe buy back his son. She was going 'to sell' Ethan again.

~ I think there is also a chance that Stephanie had a tiny afterthought reason to take Ethan: to show her 'man', Nathan, what a great 'mommy' she is. Kind of a 'look how great I am, I'm such a good mom and woman' type thing. Like how we are told she presented herself to her former co-workers while she was still married to Joe.

But something went wrong. Something angered her. It was probably something innocuous that set her off- like Ethan referring to Joe's fiancee Becky, or maybe Joe's other ex-wife Michelle, as 'Mommy' in Stephanie's presence. Ethan was only four years old, he was in a new, unfamiliar place and situation with two people he barely knew (who were probably both using drugs, imo), and probably emotionally stressed, which is understandable. For some reason I keep thinking the word 'Mommy' came out of his mouth, and Stephanie was embarrassed in front of Nathan that Ethan didn't mean her.

I wouldn't be surprised if the physical abuse was actually started by Stephanie. She may have slapped Ethan, Ethan would have started crying, and then Nathan, wanting to show his support to, and solidarity with Stephanie, told her to stand back, that he'll "take care of this".

Being the macho guy that Nathan viewed himself as, he took on the roll of 'firm disciplinarian', and took a little 4 year old child into the bedroom, and beat the daylights out of him.

From that point on, the more Ethan cried (and Ethan would have naturally been hysterical after the first beating) the more it would enrage Nathan, and in turn Stephanie.

At some point, they completely stopped seeing Ethan as a child, (if they ever did to begin with), and he simply became their personal little punching bag.
Click to expand...

Great post and analysis. I'd also add that I suspect that NS and SS saw themselves as "two," a perfect unit granted authenticity through fate, etc. (witness the wedding site postings), and Ethan (through no fault of his own) was quickly viewed as upsetting that perfect balance. No doubt he missed his home and family, wanted things, was otherwise a distinctive 4 year-old, and above all failed to recognize the greatness/ perfection that was NS+SS. Once they'd started, they were unlikely to stop.

Some years ago in a high-school law class I was in the courtroom during a fairly notorious murder trial, a woman murdered and brutalized by this man, and witnessed a Perry Mason moment: after some clever cross-examination the defendant admitted to the crime right there, in open court. He said he'd killed the woman more or less without meaning to, and then done terrible things to her body because (dimly remembered quote) "She'd gone and got dead and now I had to ****** pay for it."

It's a self-serving explanation, of course, and I attach no real weight to it, but only a certain kind of person would think it rational, and I expect that SS and maybe NS will fit that bill. Ethan brought it on himself (they'll argue) and once they'd gone a certain distance they were driven by self-regard, anger, resentment. He ruined their perfect two-person world and now he would pay for it. It's evil, horrendous, pathological, but to them at the time, I suspect, reasonable. That's how they could get married, go shopping, etc. The moment(s) of madness carried the day. Ugh.

best,

s
 
scapa said:
It's a self-serving explanation, of course, and I attach no real weight to it, but only a certain kind of person would think it rational, and I expect that SS and maybe NS will fit that bill. Ethan brought it on himself (they'll argue) and once they'd gone a certain distance they were driven by self-regard, anger, resentment. He ruined their perfect two-person world and now he would pay for it. It's evil, horrendous, pathological, but to them at the time, I suspect, reasonable. That's how they could get married, go shopping, etc. The moment(s) of madness carried the day. Ugh.

best,

s
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snipped & bbm

SS hated Joe, and obviously knew that his son was his world, so by extension she hated Ethan too. IMO, the ONLY reason why she took Ethan for the summer was because she knew Joe didn't want him to be with her. Had Joe insisted she take him, she would have refused. I'm sure of it. But since Joe so adamantly fought to keep him from going --- calling her unstable and unfit --- she took Ethan for the sole purpose of hurting Joe and getting one over on him (HA HA HA). I believe that she viewed him as nothing more than a pawn to use to get even with Joe. She knew Ethan didn't want to be with her, that he didn't love her like he loved his father and he certainly didn't love NS.

I think it was this perceived (and most probably real) rejection of the two of them (how dare he!) that set in motion the brutality that followed. And while Nathan wouldn't have had any reason to expect Ethan to establish an immediate attachment to him (and even as crazy as NS is, I don't think he did), Stephanie would have been livid. Especially when Ethan cried for his Daddy. Or Becky. Or Michelle. Or any of those whom he knew truly cared for him. And she would have taken it out on little Ethan.

Whatever it was that happened that first crossed the line into abuse, they both knew Ethan was old enough to tell his father what happened. And they both understood that would *ruin* their perfect little life they had planned together---and any chances that Stephanie would cash out on Joe's settlement.

So I think you're dead on. They blamed him for *ruining* their lives and they made him pay for it. And I firmly believe they each had a hand in it, they each egged the other on, each feeding on the other's anger and hatred, escalating the brutality to even after he was dead. And I firmly believe they still blame him for what's happening to them now. There's not an ounce of remorse in either of them for what they did to this precious little boy. Their only regret is that they were caught.
 
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