Would you pull a cord

Would you tighten a noose around the neck of your child

  • Yes, but only to stay out of jail

    Votes: 3 2.0%
  • Yes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, only if I knew she was already dead.

    Votes: 4 2.7%
  • Are you out of your mind? No way.

    Votes: 143 95.3%

  • Total voters
    150
Take a look at the R's behavior and take a look at FW's behavior for ex.If we like to judge people so much by their cover,who seems the more violent one,judging by their behavior and ego and temper?Take a look at what they found out about CW's way of living&behavior.Who seems more capable of a crime then,be honest?
 
Hey Madeleine.

Maybe it's easier to demonize a woman.
The BPD were looking for a role to fill,
and PR could fill it.
 
It doesn't matter anyway cause the autopsy report says she was ALIVE when strangled and ST confirms in his depo what his experts said,that she was ALIVE when she was sexually assaulted.

The "the R's thought she was dead when they pulled the cord and sexually assaulted her" is pure BS.IMO. Not only is there NO evidence to suggest that but it's the worse argument I've ever heard.

Why did none of the cops have the guts to push the "The R's did it on purpose theory" which have made way more sense?Lack of evidence?If so why did they tried so desperately to squeeze all this BS into their RDI accident scenarios?
 
Hey Madeleine.

Maybe it's easier to demonize a woman.
The BPD were looking for a role to fill,
and PR could fill it.

It is interesting that there sometimes is/was more of a focus on PR rather than JR. I think in more recent years, people like Andrea Yates may have influenced opinion. (Just a cursory/quick search, but I did find this: http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=2717)

The murder was clearly violent--which people might associate more with men--but I think it is easier to assign an emotional "snap" resulting in an accident to a woman. (IMO) Perhaps that provides a "reason" that people can more easily accept than just straight-up evil? I dunno. I also think it's more difficult for people to believe that JR & PR could do this together, with neither telling the other to stop.
 
There are things that would make any woman snap. Not everyone believes the bed wetting theory. If there had not been evidence of prior sexual abuse, I would not believe the way I do. I have no idea how enraged I would become if I were to walk in on someone sexually abusing one of my daughters, but I do know that I would hurt
that person any way that I could with any weapon I could get my hands on (or already had in my hands). My theory doesn't belong here, but that's how it starts and that's exactly why both of them were involved and could not "rat out" the other.
 
There are things that would make any woman snap. Not everyone believes the bed wetting theory. If there had not been evidence of prior sexual abuse, I would not believe the way I do. I have no idea how enraged I would become if I were to walk in on someone sexually abusing one of my daughters, but I do know that I would hurt
that person any way that I could with any weapon I could get my hands on (or already had in my hands). My theory doesn't belong here, but that's how it starts and that's exactly why both of them were involved and could not "rat out" the other.

My grandmother is a very wise and level-headed woman. You don't have to say any more for me to be pretty sure that you share her theory (which she has held from the very beginning). ;)
 
There are things that would make any woman snap. Not everyone believes the bed wetting theory. If there had not been evidence of prior sexual abuse, I would not believe the way I do. I have no idea how enraged I would become if I were to walk in on someone sexually abusing one of my daughters, but I do know that I would hurt
that person any way that I could with any weapon I could get my hands on (or already had in my hands). My theory doesn't belong here, but that's how it starts and that's exactly why both of them were involved and could not "rat out" the other.

No, I guess this isn't the place for a theory, but I fail to see why a mother, upon finding her husband sexually abusing her 6yo daughter, would then commit such an horrific murder on the daughter. The old swing at him and miss and hit her idea is a crock of .......
 
No, I guess this isn't the place for a theory, but I fail to see why a mother, upon finding her husband sexually abusing her 6yo daughter, would then commit such an horrific murder on the daughter. The old swing at him and miss and hit her idea is a crock of .......

At first look, yeah, it sounds like a crock. But it still could have happened. Like so many of the theories I have that run into a wall, this one is at least one that accommodates both parents covering for each other. (I hate this case).

Perhaps the police zeroed in on Patsy because they felt she wrote the note. If so, they made the mistake that many people make. That the author of the RN is also the killer. That is not necessarily true. Just as it can't be presumed the donor of the male DNA was an adult male, and the killer. Neither can be stated as a fact.
 
Hey Madeleine.

Yes, it must be our maternal nature, the revulsion of the act .... the rope, and sexual violation of your own child.
Being capable of staging, but not that method.
Not to that degree.

I guess that makes me a maternal paternal or Mr. Mom. I would find it much easier to finish myself off than to have done and then to do what is theorized the Ramsey's did.
 
I guess that makes me a maternal paternal or Mr. Mom. I would find it much easier to finish myself off than to have done and then to do what is theorized the Ramsey's did.

Me, too. But although not everyone has a place that dark in their souls- some people DO. And they can be from any walk of life. You sometimes never know from outside appearances what a person, even a "nice, white, wealthy" one will do when in the right set of circumstances.
 
Hey Madeleine.

Yes, it must be our maternal nature, the revulsion of the act .... the rope, and sexual violation of your own child.
Being capable of staging, but not that method.
Not to that degree.

I guess that makes me a maternal paternal or Mr. Mom. I would find it much easier to finish myself off than to have done and then to do what is theorized the Ramsey's did.
 
Me, too. But although not everyone has a place that dark in their souls- some people DO. And they can be from any walk of life. You sometimes never know from outside appearances what a person, even a "nice, white, wealthy" one will do when in the right set of circumstances.


It is kind a interesting. The majority favor the RDI.
 
Plenty of men push their sons into roles as vicarious extensions of their dreams for greatness in sports and business and they start them at an early age, too. Not much in the way of condemnation or hurling insults and innuendos at them. Just observe their behavior at Pee Wee football games to see how obsessed some of these guys are!

DAMN good point! You're absolutely right on all counts. It's society's gender double-standards at work.

If I thought they had simply chosen to overlook warning signs of real danger, I'd join in the hellish chorus, too.

Such as?
 
I guess that makes me a maternal paternal or Mr. Mom. I would find it much easier to finish myself off than to have done and then to do what is theorized the Ramsey's did.

Since the R's have no socioeconomic issues that are present in 80% of filicides, that would put them in the minority class for filicides. Now, add to that zero history of alcoholism, drugs, domestic violence, jaywalking, etc., etc. that probably would put them in a very narrow minority of filicides. And we havent even brought up the sexual assault and strangulation, which is uncommon in filicide. Further, the ransom note that paradoxically invites the FBI is also bizarre.

I can't imagine any LE that would attempt to invoke the 'oh when you find a child dead in the house' filicide statistics, when the crime doesn't even fall within the bell curve.

Its what you do when you've got nothing else. I mean, if it were PR or JR DNA in the underwear/longjohns it would've been over. Nobody would be reaching out to things other people have done in order to apply a stereotype for behavior simply because they are parents.
 
Since the R's have no socioeconomic issues that are present in 80% of filicides, that would put them in the minority class for filicides. Now, add to that zero history of alcoholism, drugs, domestic violence, jaywalking, etc., etc. that probably would put them in a very narrow minority of filicides. And we havent even brought up the sexual assault and strangulation, which is uncommon in filicide. Further, the ransom note that paradoxically invites the FBI is also bizarre.

I can't imagine any LE that would attempt to invoke the 'oh when you find a child dead in the house' filicide statistics, when the crime doesn't even fall within the bell curve.

Its what you do when you've got nothing else. I mean, if it were PR or JR DNA in the underwear/longjohns it would've been over. Nobody would be reaching out to things other people have done in order to apply a stereotype for behavior simply because they are parents.

Absolutely correct HOTYH. There's just one issue you haven't addresssed.

People didn't like them
 
Absolutely correct HOTYH. There's just one issue you haven't addresssed.

People didn't like them

Before or after the murder? After, right?

Well, there's your circular-logic lynch-mob 'protect the children' 'somebody's gonna hang for this' mentality. However, going after the parents seems a bit like hiding your head in the sand at this late date. Doesn't it? I mean, given the facts of the case?
 
Sad.It's one thing to realize that people can be evil and do bad horrible things and something else to say that everyone is capable of sexually assaulting and putting a cord around their child's neck.Maybe my reality is different than yours.

I'd just as soon not fight over who owns "reality."

Being capable of something and having no problem doing something are different things. I've seen no remorse,no guilt,you would think that someone who loves a child but did this in order to cover their @ss would in time be devastated.

All right. Let's stop with the abstracts for a minute and talk turkey here. To take that argument on its merits, yes, you probably would think that. But you know as well as I do that people will find ways to rationalize it, even to convince themselves they're not guilty. Every person in prison is innocent. Just ask them.

Did these people have no conscience,nothing,is this what you're telling me?Are they sociopaths?

I often wonder that very thing.
 
How do you imagine this happened btw?

Go to the opening post of "Ask Super, Part 2." That will tell you. Check out some of Sophie's thoughts, as well.

PR:"I am done John,I wrote the most perfect note,I am so proud!Hold on,I don't think this is enough though.What about making it even more special,why don't you go get some of my stuff and let's make the most special murder weapon."
JR:"Working on it honey,be right back,sounds like fun!"
PR:"Oh Johhhhhhhhhhhhn!I still don't think it's enough!What about messing a bit with our daughter's vagina so we make sure LE's on the wrong track?"
JR:"Hmmm,honey,I don't think that will be that difficult,I've done this before,remember?"
PR:"Great!But make sure you also clean her up and put on those cute panties with the rose buds she liked so much."


I KNOW.NOT FUNNY.

Not in the least. But not TOTALLY off-mark from what I think happened, oddly enough.
 
I have to agree with others who are emphasizing the importance of context with a question like this. No one wants to think they could do such a horrible thing.

But, assuming RDI for the purpose of this question, I think the discussion on the UMI thread is important. A parent who is quite literally "out of their mind" might be able to commit an act such as this one, especially after suffering the initial trauma of the situation, followed by the frenzy of a cover-up.

I've always been perplexed as to how the Rs (IF they had anything to do with it) did not seem to have a "breakdown" moment later that somebody would have witnessed. (I haven't read about one, anyway.) This is why some of the meds are interesting. Yes--absolutely could and probably should have been used to treat the trauma of losing a child under such horrible circumstances. But, could they have also prevented/kept at bay such a moment of "WHAT DID I/WE DO???"

Thank you, daisy. Just thank you.
 
UMI and "PR might have been frustrated because of the trip" and stuff are just excuses because there is no evidence that shows that she did something.IMO.So we come up with these kind of ideas because there is nothing else there and we desperately want her to be guilty .WHY.

madeleine, we may not be allies anymore, but you know me better than that. You know that's not how I do business. I don't bring up a subject for discussion unless I think it has some genuine value. And if there's nothing to it, better to find out now.

Why didn't the cops follow the JDI lead after finding out that she was abused before (so they SAY).
Why is she the one people think she was out of her mind or frustrated or the one having a rage attack.WHY NOT JR.WHY.

Good questions! Maybe they figured she'd be easier to "break" and turn on him?
 

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