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  #1126  
Old 09-09-2011, 10:02 AM
SleuthyMama SleuthyMama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elementry View Post
What's hinky for the goose is hinky for the gander, I guess. Oh, Dominick Dunne would've been in his element writing about this one.......
You said it! Dominick Dunne is somewhere in the great beyond, literally foaming at the mouth over this case!
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  #1127  
Old 09-09-2011, 10:46 AM
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deanna82437 deanna82437 is offline
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Originally Posted by Morag View Post
Originally Posted by deanna82437


This is seemingly a screen cap taken from the morning RZN died. Her form is visible on the ground, but the rope is not hanging from the balcony, nor is the door open.

Here is the description from Detective Tsuida, who arrived at 714PM with the Medical Examiner, Dr Lucas:

On 7/13/11, at 1914 hours, I arrived....Dr Lucas and I were escorted to the back of the residence...I noted a naked female body....A rope was hanging from the second story balcony.

So where was the rope when the helicopters were doing their flyovers earlier in the day? Why would the rope be removed, then replaced? They had no qualms about leaving the victim out where she could be seen.
https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/xJBccc

"Investigators used a search warrant WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON to enter the property to finish their probe. They said the woman died "violently."
(quote from one of the many articles .. sorry no link)

This means that LE entered the property with the search warrant in the AFTERNOON -- helicopters flew over in the morning. Still trying to find out a definite time they did. My guess would be that without a search warrant they would not have had access to interior balcony and crime scene guest room. So they (supposedly) could not have messed with the rope at that time.

Does anyone know precisely what time the search warrant was issued?

So Dr. Lucas arrived at 1914 hours (7:14pm) and there was a rope. ALL very hinky!
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Last edited by deanna82437; 09-09-2011 at 10:52 AM. Reason: add image link
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  #1128  
Old 09-09-2011, 11:13 AM
SunnieRN SunnieRN is offline
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Deanna, it doesn't sound very plausible that the rope was moved by LE that morning, or that they closed the balcony doors.

The fact that they waited for search warrants, instead of asking JS permission to enter the residence says something to me imho.

Do you have any theories on what happened?
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  #1129  
Old 09-09-2011, 11:15 AM
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Cortne Cortne is offline
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Originally Posted by Stella5 View Post
I didn't say she closed the doors... only that we have no idea what the scene truly looked like since we don't have the photos. All we have are a few screen caps from the heli's. As for the rope expert, is he kidding? There was a re-enactment done and that lady had no problem doing it. I had no problem doing it was well... I tried it after Beli(?) suggested it. It wasn't difficult. I used a thicker white tow rope that we happened to have here because my daughter stole it from the boat thinking she was going to hang a tire from a tree.

I think everyone got spoiled during the Anthony case and are accustomed to seeing every little word & picture and that just isn't the norm. What we have here is the norm, and unfortunately that is leading to accusations of shady police work, scene staging, cover ups, pay offs, etc... just because we, Joe Public, don't have every little detail in both of these deaths. IMO we're not entitled to them, especially if this was a suicide.

Like I said last night, I totally understand why her family doesn't want to accept it. They should get an independent opinion and not all these talking heads that haven't seen any more than we have seen. All these experts weighing in are only for their 15 minutes, IMO and only delaying their grieving process no matter which way this turns out if an independent opinion is done.

When Chris killed himself, LE wouldn't even let me see the police report right away because I was hysterical! It took almost a month before he finally sent it to me and for that I am grateful. The main Detective who dealt with me handled me with kid gloves and didn't give me all the information about the scene because he didn't want to upset me. I called him constantly all day every day until I went to Chicago and saw my brothers body and finally met the Detective. When I asked specific questions, he'd answer them... but he didn't offer the horrors of what he saw. The ME wouldn't let me see the body while in the morgue because he said it would be too traumatic. He died on a Wednesday and I finally got to see him on a Sunday after the ME released him to the Cremation place.... that entire time I was in denial that it was even my brother they found. I just knew it had to be a bum that stole his ID. So I get why LE isn't releasing every little thing to the public, and IMO they did show sympathy towards Rebecca's family. Suicide is a hard thing to accept (as is murder!).

Thank you!!
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  #1130  
Old 09-09-2011, 11:37 AM
lauriej lauriej is offline
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..this is really blurry but-----it's taken from the news video flyover, you can faintly make out the rope hanging from the balcony..


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  #1131  
Old 09-09-2011, 11:39 AM
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oceanblueeyes oceanblueeyes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanna82437 View Post
https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/xJBccc

"Investigators used a search warrant WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON to enter the property to finish their probe. They said the woman died "violently."
(quote from one of the many articles .. sorry no link)

This means that LE entered the property with the search warrant in the AFTERNOON -- helicopters flew over in the morning. Still trying to find out a definite time they did. My guess would be that without a search warrant they would not have had access to interior balcony and crime scene guest room. So they (supposedly) could not have messed with the rope at that time.

Does anyone know precisely what time the search warrant was issued?

So Dr. Lucas arrived at 1914 hours (7:14pm) and there was a rope. ALL very hinky!
I read somewhere (forgive me for I don't know where after so many links have been put up) that the helicopter swooped over around 2 pm.

I do remember LE putting up crime scene tape in front of the house to keep the onlookers away from the front of the mansion but I do not think they would even enter the mansion or the back courtyard without a search warrant first..especially since they were now doing a death investigation. It is a different situation once the detectives are on scene investigating a death from the EMTs first being there to render aide.

Even when the homeowner gives them permission to search LE often times do not go ahead and do this. It makes it much simpler if a SW is gotten from a Judge so that any potential evidence can be removed legally under the direction of the Judge who signed the SW.

If the homeowner just gives their word then if the case ever landed in a criminal court the person's attorney would file a motion to have the evidence that was taken......suppressed... because an official SW wasn't in place.

Also with SWs it protects LE from the homeowner saying they took something irrelevant or damaged something valuable. With a SW an inventory list is given to the homeowner of everything taken from their home. The homeowner cannot later come back and accuse LE of taking something not listed on the inventory list since the homeowner is given a copy of the inventory list.
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  #1132  
Old 09-09-2011, 11:42 AM
lauriej lauriej is offline
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..does anyone have the link to the rope binding recreation video? tia..
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  #1133  
Old 09-09-2011, 11:52 AM
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deanna82437 deanna82437 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
I read somewhere (forgive me for I don't know where after so many links have been put up) that the helicopter swooped over around 2 pm.

I do remember LE putting up crime scene in front of the house to keep the onlookers away from the front of the mansion but I do not think they would even enter the mansion or the back courtyard without a search warrant first..especially since they were now doing a death investigation. It is a different situation once the detectives are on scene investigating a death from the EMTs first being there to render aide.

Even when the homeowner gives them permission to search LE often times do not go ahead and do this. It makes it much simpler if a SW is gotten from a Judge so that any potential evidence can be removed legally.

If the homeowner just gives their word then if the case ever landed in a criminal court the person's attorney would file a motion to have the evidence that was taken......suppressed... because an official SW wasn't in place.

Also with SWs it protects LE from the homeowner saying they took something irrelevant or damaged something valuable. With a SW an inventory list is given to the homeowner of everything taken from their home. The homeowner cannot later come back and accuse LE of taking something not listed on the inventory list since the homeowner is given a copy of the inventory list.
BBM
The referenced video pic was from the morning newscast which would indicate that it was taken in the A.M. I believe it was either a weather spotter or traffic spotter helicopter, which seems logical it would be before the morning rush hour? I don't know, just using common sense, I think.
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  #1134  
Old 09-09-2011, 11:57 AM
SunnieRN SunnieRN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lauriej View Post
..this is really blurry but-----it's taken from the news video flyover, you can faintly make out the rope hanging from the balcony..


I thought in earlier threads, where some sleuthers had more pictures and different views, the 'rope' turned out to be the middle balcony support or from the folliage inder the balcony?
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  #1135  
Old 09-09-2011, 12:12 PM
alexanderdavis alexanderdavis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleuthyMama View Post
You said it! Dominick Dunne is somewhere in the great beyond, literally foaming at the mouth over this case!
I hope some of the other great detectives we have in this world will get behind this. They will interview everyone. They will look at the reports and notice if things were left out and ask questions. They will double check people's accounts of what happened. It never hurts to double check anyone's work or everyone's story. Once we have answers to our questions, we will learn and hopefully all will become clear.
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  #1136  
Old 09-09-2011, 12:24 PM
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'twas a rope

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
I thought in earlier threads, where some sleuthers had more pictures and different views, the 'rope' turned out to be the middle balcony support or from the folliage inder the balcony?
Yes, the 'rope' was variously identified as the balcony support, a palm frond, a cactus...but it actually was a rope!

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2081...suicide-bo.htm
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  #1137  
Old 09-09-2011, 12:35 PM
jjenny jjenny is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morag View Post
Yes, the 'rope' was variously identified as the balcony support, a palm frond, a cactus...but it actually was a rope!

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2081...suicide-bo.htm
But in the helicopter photos both doors on the balcony are clearly closed. While in the official rope photo one door is open.
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  #1138  
Old 09-09-2011, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morag View Post
Yes, the 'rope' was variously identified as the balcony support, a palm frond, a cactus...but it actually was a rope!

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2081...suicide-bo.htm
The photo shown has one door open, unlike the helicopter images with both doors closed. Access to the home had already been gained.

From later on in the article, this statement really surprised me:

"Authorities did not find any other fingerprints on the materials besides Rebecca's, but the Zahau family's lawyer, Anne Bremner, objected to this segment of the investigation, arguing that Jonah Shacknai's fingerprints were not collected and should have been."


How is that even possible? It would have been vital to the investigation to have JS' fingerprints for comparison. I'm stunned! Perhaps it is a mistake on her part?
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  #1139  
Old 09-09-2011, 12:46 PM
SunnieRN SunnieRN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morag View Post
Yes, the 'rope' was variously identified as the balcony support, a palm frond, a cactus...but it actually was a rope!

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2081...suicide-bo.htm
If I'm not mistaken, which I could be, this is the photo from the PC, not from the helicopter shots.
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  #1140  
Old 09-09-2011, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by lauriej View Post
..does anyone have the link to the rope binding recreation video? tia..
This link was included in the article link from Morag upthread. I think it can be found on the SD Sheriff's site too.
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  #1141  
Old 09-09-2011, 12:55 PM
jjenny jjenny is online now
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We know for a fact a police officer has already gone onto the balcony before the LE started taking photos because of the boot print. It certainly would be interesting if the balcony doors were opened or closed when police showed up.
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  #1142  
Old 09-09-2011, 12:56 PM
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when LE recreated the rope tying, all that means is that a voluntary suicide might be possible, but it also means that an involuntary staged suicide or strangulation aka murder is also possible too. Same with that black paint -that could have been smudged on her by someone else, same with the "supposed lack of other person's DNA -those persons could have worn gloves, etc etc

I do not understand why LE had to make a definite conclusion that Rebecca commited suicide when both the physical evidence, the timeline , and the bizarre aspects can also be used to point to involuntary forced or staged suicide or strangulation.

That is why, this case should be declared "undetermined". in fact there was no reason to keep the public waiting for so many weeks because the bottomline is that no one witnessed(that we know of) the following scenarios of suicide(voluntary) or involuntary staged suicide(murder) or strangulation(murder).
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  #1143  
Old 09-09-2011, 12:58 PM
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Let's move it over guys - here ya go:
CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #11 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thanks,

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