Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

who molested/abused JB?

  • JR

    Votes: 180 27.1%

  • BR

    Votes: 203 30.6%

  • JAR

    Votes: 28 4.2%

  • a close family friend

    Votes: 41 6.2%

  • a stranger/stalker a la JMK

    Votes: 20 3.0%

  • PR-it wasn't sexual abuse,it was corporal punishment

    Votes: 89 13.4%

  • she wasn't previously abused/molested

    Votes: 103 15.5%
  • Total voters
    664

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azwriter said:
[/B]

FairM, About those loving photos. Of course the pictures of the two of them together would show naturally happy children. Who takes photos of children when they are fighting, or hitting at each other or being cruel to one another? And then, present these hate photos in a family album or pass them on to friends. Family photos don't have to be posed, but I've rarely seen ones taken when the children were not getting along.
Just pointing out that photos of JonBenet and Burke together isn't positive evidence of how they regarded each other. jmo
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I am not clear about what point you are trying to make here but quite obviously people don't take photos of children fighting or hitting each other!!!

I was stating MY opinion of what I see in those photos , I don't always see that type of affection in other photos of children, I recognise genuine love and affection when I see it.
 
DeeDee249 said:
BR certainly didn't "need" to kill his sister. IF he did, it was unintentional. If he was molesting her a little too vigorously (enough to cause the bleeding we know happened) she may have screamed and he whacked her with the flashlight to shut her up.
The housekeeper claimed to have found them under the covers in BR's room on more than one occasion. I do not recall her mentioning a flashlight, but it isn't hard to picture the kids under the covers with a flashlight, exploring each other.
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As you already mentioned this is pure Speculation.

My speculation IF they were seen by the housekeeper under the covers it does not mean Burke was molesting JonBenet or that they were exploring each other, perhaps they were just playing an innocent game as children do that had nothing whatsoever to do with molestation, ! they may even have used a flashlight to read a book under the covers as children often do.
 
Lera213 said:
I'm still thinking it was BR. Why a garrote? Because BR didn't have the strength, after she was laying there dying BR picked up the flashlight and smashed it over her head.

I believe BR was exposed to *advertiser censored*, or movies, and played it out what he saw, that and possibly the early sexual exploration.

The Ramsey's knew it was BR and started the cover up.

I do know in my heart of hearts and common sense that someone in that family did this. If it was PR after her death why not just come out with it to put it all to rest?

I can see PR and JR going to the extreme to protect BR.

Again though I'm not an expert on this case whatsoever so i will defer to them.
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I agree with your post! I'm sure the family was going to do everything they could do to try and protect Burke.
 
FairM said:
As you already mentioned this is pure Speculation.

My speculation IF they were seen by the housekeeper under the covers it does not mean Burke was molesting JonBenet or that they were exploring each other, perhaps they were just playing an innocent game as children do that had nothing whatsoever to do with molestation, ! they may even have used a flashlight to read a book under the covers as children often do.
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Yes, of course that could be the case, as well as my theory. BUT- we do have a dead little girl whose corpse had evidence of sexual molestation.
While we do not know who the molester was, again, ALL present in the home that night must be considered.
Sexual exploration in children is common, especially among siblings. Rarely results in the death of one of the children. But...it can happen. especially if another older sibling was also a participant. In this case, there IS an older male sibling, and although he claimed not to be in Boulder that night, a neighbor saw him going into the house that day. And his mother in another state, with whom he was alleged to have spent that day, was immediately given a lawyer to prevent any questioning along that line or providing of photo evidence, etc.
 
Lera213 said:
I thought maybe Burke was very jealous of his sister because she got all the attention. Think of the time, money, effort that goes into each pageant JB was in. I mean it could be any one of the 3. Perhaps mommy was showing JB how to be sexy for the judges, gosh maybe she even had her watch some not so clean movies to show JB how to be sexy. I mean the mind can just go anywhere with this.

I do think that the effort and money that this family spent to derail an investigation proves they have much to hide.
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Lera213,
I thought maybe Burke was very jealous of his sister because she got all the attention.
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You could be right, just depends on how mature Burke was for his age. Personally I doubt Burke was that bothered by his 6-year old sister doing pageants and receiving lots of attention. At his age pageants would be of little interest to him, he would likely view it all as girly stuff.

I mean the mind can just go anywhere with this.
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Sure can. We also have the autopsy report and Coroner Meyer's verbatim remarks regarding digital penetration and sexual contact. So we can be fairly certain just prior to her death JonBenet snacked some pineapple, was then sexually molested, followed by a head injury and asphyxiation!

Her head injury may or may not have preceded her initial asphyxiation, or they may both run together one being the consequence of the other. Which is a position I favor.

Unless it was deliberate why would anyone in the house want to whack JonBenet on the head with some heavy object? Would they do this with JonBenet standing up, lying down, whats the percentage in this for a relative?

I think whoever was molesting JonBenet tried to silence her by compressing her throat, she then fell onto the floor or hit some object on the way down.
I think it was the abuse position that likely contributed towards her head injury?

I do think that the effort and money that this family spent to derail an investigation proves they have much to hide.
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Yes lots to hide. Think of all the officials that received brown envelopes, the friends who were offered improved positions.



.
 
UKGuy said:
Lera213,

You could be right, just depends on how mature Burke was for his age. Personally I doubt Burke was that bothered by his 6-year old sister doing pageants and receiving lots of attention. At his age pageants would be of little interest to him, he would likely view it all as girly stuff.


Sure can. We also have the autopsy report and Coroner Meyer's verbatim remarks regarding digital penetration and sexual contact. So we can be fairly certain just prior to her death JonBenet snacked some pineapple, was then sexually molested, followed by a head injury and asphyxiation!

Her head injury may or may not have preceded her initial asphyxiation, or they may both run together one being the consequence of the other. Which is a position I favor.

Unless it was deliberate why would anyone in the house want to whack JonBenet on the head with some heavy object? Would they do this with JonBenet standing up, lying down, whats the percentage in this for a relative?

I think whoever was molesting JonBenet tried to silence her by compressing her throat, she then fell onto the floor or hit some object on the way down.
I think it was the abuse position that likely contributed towards her head injury?


Yes lots to hide. Think of all the officials that received brown envelopes, the friends who were offered improved positions.



.
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Supposedly there was an incident where BR hit JBR in the head with a golf club. I think there is more to BR than meets the eye.
 
stilettos said:
Supposedly there was an incident where BR hit JBR in the head with a golf club. I think there is more to BR than meets the eye.
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stilettos,
Yes, there was. I believe JonBenet was whisked away to hospital to avoid scarring or permanent injury.

Anything is possible in this case. But somehow Burke at 9-years old inflicting all that violence upon JonBenet does not seem to match his personality.

BDI is a more consistent theory since it explains why the parents both colluded together. So maybe it is BDI?

So assuming JonBenet and Burke were snacking together then there was sexual contact, just what kind of scenario would explain the head injury and abrasions all over JonBenet's body, given the nature of the encounter?


.
 
UKGuy said:
stilettos,
Yes, there was. I believe JonBenet was whisked away to hospital to avoid scarring or permanent injury.

Anything is possible in this case. But somehow Burke at 9-years old inflicting all that violence upon JonBenet does not seem to match his personality.

BDI is a more consistent theory since it explains why the parents both colluded together. So maybe it is BDI?

So assuming JonBenet and Burke were snacking together then there was sexual contact, just what kind of scenario would explain the head injury and abrasions all over JonBenet's body, given the nature of the encounter?


.
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IDK...assuming BR is not rageful/sadistic...I just don't know....maybe she started protesting and he became angry...I just do not have the answers and it frustrates me. I think a remaining live child being protected might be the answer as to why these two (PR & JR) would willingly stage this scene though. If BR was the one sexually abusing her...if he became angry and struck her...they could have thought she was dead and the abrasions occurred during staging?
 
in linda arndt's depo, she mentioned "the family dynamic of incest and everyone had their role". any of you know of her ever getting more specific about that?
 
DeeDee249 said:
That might not help. In JB's case, the vagina was stretched over a period of time from repeated penetration. This wasn't a one-time thing, and the size of the finger has no bearing. It isn't like fitting a piece into a puzzle.
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Where is the Evidence for above statement?
 
If and I think it's a big if she was molested previously, it could easily be someone other than a family member. I was molested from the age of 7-12, by a friend of the family and a older cousin, my parents don't know to this day and I'm 42.
 
Good luck Tennison, getting credible sources sited around here is a lot like pulling teeth.
 
Junebug99 said:
Good luck Tennison, getting credible sources sited around here is a lot like pulling teeth.
Click to expand...

I agree there is a very negative vibe towards people who look for quote evidence, a few members really are biased towards any differeciating point of view.
I have researched as much evidence on this case as i can from the beginning and i cannot find any evidence for prior sexual molestation.
Eroded hymen is oft quoted as proof as is 1cm vaginal opening but both of these are very easilly explained non sexually, certainly not proof by any means.
Other evidence is also overlooked or downplayed when it does not fit the agenda.
I really think the truth is what we should all be after, taking into consideration all the facts, as long as they ARE facts.
Well...... lets keep on searching.
 
this is a good thread especially since it points out that there is considerable disagreement on what injury occurred first. the fact that john and patsy fibers were found on jb tell us this happended soon after they returned home before anyone undressed for bed. so lets say the kids are in kitchen eating a snack dad is doing his thing, mom is finishig all the last minute details. the kids go down to basement to play hostage ransome. jb lets b tie her up while she is sitting in a chair. he ties the rope around her neck and he decides he is going ot torture her. he grabs the paintbrush, pulls dow her pants, starts poking her with it. she screams, he hits her with the flashlight she falls back and some how is strangled in the process. he runs upstairs and goes to bed unaware she is dying of strangulation. mom soon becomes concerned goes down and theer is jb strangled and bashed, yells for john and the cover up begins. br really doesnt know that jb is dead but will never admit he pulled her pants down. thus they need to redress her and hide her and use the initital materials in a creative way to hide the truth

the ransom notews to hide the truth from BR and create a red herring for the cops.it was brilliant. john and pr collaborated together, were both up all night, but jr is the only one that got the shower.
 
RTC said:
this is a good thread especially since it points out that there is considerable disagreement on what injury occurred first. the fact that john and patsy fibers were found on jb tell us this happended soon after they returned home before anyone undressed for bed. so lets say the kids are in kitchen eating a snack dad is doing his thing, mom is finishig all the last minute details. the kids go down to basement to play hostage ransome. jb lets b tie her up while she is sitting in a chair. he ties the rope around her neck and he decides he is going ot torture her. he grabs the paintbrush, pulls dow her pants, starts poking her with it. she screams, he hits her with the flashlight she falls back and some how is strangled in the process. he runs upstairs and goes to bed unaware she is dying of strangulation. mom soon becomes concerned goes down and theer is jb strangled and bashed, yells for john and the cover up begins. br really doesnt know that jb is dead but will never admit he pulled her pants down. thus they need to redress her and hide her and use the initital materials in a creative way to hide the truth

the ransom notews to hide the truth from BR and create a red herring for the cops.it was brilliant. john and pr collaborated together, were both up all night, but jr is the only one that got the shower.
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are there any indicators of such behavior before/since that night by br? what was his life like since then?
 
LinasK said:
I totally agree!!! A recent poster tried to suggest it was...:furious::furious::furious:
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Who said she was a "little bit" molested? I stated the molestation didn't fit the violence and intensity of the rest of the attack, IMO. I said I thought the molestation that night was staged.

I never said she was "a little bit molested" nor would I ever make that distinction when it comes to sexual abuse of children, women, or men. Abuse is abuse, sexual or otherwise when hands are placed where they don't belong.
 
Junebug99 said:
Good luck Tennison, getting credible sources sited around here is a lot like pulling teeth.
Click to expand...

What did you need a source for? Have you looked in the archives or at ACR's website? I agree, reliable sources are key to an intelligent debate...sometimes it is just assumed to be common knowledge after 15 years. OF course that is not true...there are many newcomers to the case still.

No one credible here will ignore your request for a source....maybe they just haven't answered you yet?
 
tennison said:
I agree there is a very negative vibe towards people who look for quote evidence, a few members really are biased towards any differeciating point of view.
I have researched as much evidence on this case as i can from the beginning and i cannot find any evidence for prior sexual molestation.
Eroded hymen is oft quoted as proof as is 1cm vaginal opening but both of these are very easilly explained non sexually, certainly not proof by any means.
Other evidence is also overlooked or downplayed when it does not fit the agenda.
I really think the truth is what we should all be after, taking into consideration all the facts, as long as they ARE facts.
Well...... lets keep on searching.
Click to expand...

I don't think any of us have access to actual "evidence", but there are many opinions out there...some say no prior molestation, some say there was prior molestation. As for actual proof, that would be impossible without a confession.

Evidence is overlooked and downplayed on both sides of the fence - problem is, there's some RDI evidence that can't be downplayed no matter how one tries to spin it....I guess there's just a lot MORE evidence for RDI....and that's a fact.
 
vlpate said:
I don't think any of us have access to actual "evidence", but there are many opinions out there...some say no prior molestation, some say there was prior molestation. As for actual proof, that would be impossible without a confession.

Evidence is overlooked and downplayed on both sides of the fence - problem is, there's some RDI evidence that can't be downplayed no matter how one tries to spin it....I guess there's just a lot MORE evidence for RDI....and that's a fact.
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More evidence for RDI? I dont agree at all, most of the RDI "evidence" is based on easily explained occurences, eg fibres, any fibres from john or patsy or indeed any relative had every right to be there, and transference and cross transference is a natural phenomena, why i bet you have fibres in your underwear right now from one or more of your family, doesnt mean there is anything untoward going on its just transference.
 
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