IDI Theories (intruder did it)

[JBean]

What points to an intruder?

[eileenhawkeye]

OMG....when I saw a new thread "IDI Theories" show up on the "New Posts" page, I thought it was for the JBR forum. What are we going to call theories about the Irwins being responsible? FDI? Family Did It?

For IDI, I don't feel like there's been enough evidence released to point towards that direction. LE has not come out and said they've found unknown DNA, a footprint, fingerprints, etc. It's very possible that they have that information but I can't list verified forensic evidence pointing towards an intruder.

You can make the missing cell phones point towards an intruder or towards a family member. I think that, whoever was involved, took the cell phones because there was something on there that they didn't want anyone to see. Some people might think LE needs the phone to check the records.

[StJohn]

Things we know that would sway me in favor of IDI include: 1) Lisa appeared to be a happy healthy baby, always smiling in her pictures, so nothing to suggest abuse 2) no apparent history of abuse or mental instability in either parent's background 3) no apparent substance abuse issues by Mom or Dad 4) Mom immediately volunteered to be polygraphed, and did so, & Dad volunteered to be polygraphed, but LE declined to do so 5) no friend or family member from either parent has come forward to cast suspicion on either parent

[iamnotagolem]

Are we including family (excluding mom & dad) in intruder theories?

They knew the family, they knew dad would be at work, they knew where Lisa's bedroom was, they kept Lisa from waking/crying. The dog didn't bark.

I think the best scenario for intruder, is a family member. Stranger abduction seems like the stars lined up for them.

[Twelve of One]

Agreeing with iamnotagolem that the intruder could be a family member who doesn't live there (extended family). Entered with a key. Tampered with window to make it look like a break-in. That could also be the reason for taking the phones, but also maybe to try to conceal the extent of the relationship, so their texts etc. would not be scrutinized. A family member intruder also explains the lights--they'd turn them on, b/c if caught in the house in the dark it would look suspicious, but with the lights on it looks like an innocent visit. Then walked out without locking.

[not_my_kids]

I think that the DNA sample that they took from the neighbor might point to an intruder. We don't know why they took the DNA sample, but they either want DNA to compare if they ever get a sample, or they already have some sample to compare the neighbors DNA to. Since we don't know which, I can't say for sure, but they don't usually take DNA samples from everyone else if their strongest suspect is a parent or someone else that lives in the home.

[32beatspersecond]

Originally Posted by StJohn

Things we know that would sway me in favor of IDI include: 1) Lisa appeared to be a happy healthy baby, always smiling in her pictures, so nothing to suggest abuse 2) no apparent history of abuse or mental instability in either parent's background 3) no apparent substance abuse issues by Mom or Dad 4) Mom immediately volunteered to be polygraphed, and did so, & Dad volunteered to be polygraphed, but LE declined to do so 5) no friend or family member from either parent has come forward to cast suspicion on either parent

Zahra Baker smiled in all her pictures too...

[Dutchie]

What about possibly and ex-partner or the estranged husband of DB? Someone who was holding a grudge or wanted some kind or revenge???

[AnaTeresa]

Originally Posted by 32beatspersecond

Zahra Baker smiled in all her pictures too...

Zahra Baker had a few unsmiling photos - and her physical condition wasn't great in some photos. The photos of Zahra, to me, gave a few clues about her home life. In Lisa's case, the family as a whole looks so much more happy than Zahra's, and Lisa looks to be in better physical care.

[cindysue]

I keep thinking someone that knew family and neighborhood well..if all these things can be substantated then what leads me to believe this is : The neighbors dog let out , the man with baby sighting, the dumpster fire seem to all point away from family...I think its possible that the door was left open cause when her company left she was tired and didnt check door ..i think maybe the boy getting up in the middle of the night turned on lights ..maybe when he got up Lisa was already gone. Maybe the lights were off till that point. I think the screen was pushed in cause someone tryed to push in the window with screen up. I dont think its suspicious that the dad left his cell at home cause he had a work phone? And i wonder if the mother was buying wine for the homeless guy...did they find the box in their house. I dont know why but i feel they are innocent ..I hope the LE doesnt use only statistics to dictate how they investigate crimes.. IMO thats how i see the case at this time.

[Miziree]

"While we are speaking of abducted babies, I’ll list them all again. (From memory. I may have missed one or two.) I include babies two and a half or younger, only cases where it looks like the baby was abducted by a stranger and it doesn’t look like the baby is dead or that the parents were involved."

http://charleyross.wordpress.com/201...issing-babies/

After reading things like this above article and so many missing kids with no trace, I think it is always a possibility..There are really sick people out there.

I think whoever took her has meet or knows the family.
They climbed through the window it is possible that they know the other neighbor's movements and when they went to sleep.
They knew where Lisa's room was.
The dog's not barking.
Lisa not crying.
The dad's first day on the night shift also points to it being someone who knows this.
The light's turned on, maybe knew no light would effect the mom in her room.
Taking the DNA of neighbor makes me think they have someone's DNA and are trying to eliminate everyone known to be in the house..

LE did stress that the family was not involved in the beginning and sent out a unusual Amber alert. I still don't think that the reason the LE said the parents were not cooperating is because they think they are guilty. I think they said it to get the parents back talking with them. The parents are the only ones who know who has been around little Lisa or them. My sister is close to me but she would have no idea who I seen in the store, passed walking in the neighborhood, had at my house, people I talk to at my kids school..ect.

I don't like to rely on statistics..there are too many missing without evidence and no clear abduction..so focus stays on family... there is always a first time for anything. Cases like this remind me of Jaycee and her step-father. There is not enough to make me believe this family harmed her yet, I really don't want to rush to judgement.. I just don't know what happened!!

Please GOD, helps us find this precious little pumpkin pie!

ALL IMO...

[iluvmua]

Dad says that the intruder must have come through the unlocked door.....

And they already prepared a list of suspects to give to LE????

yeah....... They are totally involved. Nothing in their stories makes any sense.

[mysticrose]

Not sure if this is where to post this, I am only snipping this article. This is something the reporter stated so take it for what you will:


“We do know that criminal informants all along have been telling us they want to look more closely at the mother and perhaps some relationships and associates that she has in the community,” said Read

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/11...rch-continues/

[DLT88]

Originally Posted by StJohn

Things we know that would sway me in favor of IDI include: 1) Lisa appeared to be a happy healthy baby, always smiling in her pictures, so nothing to suggest abuse 2) no apparent history of abuse or mental instability in either parent's background 3) no apparent substance abuse issues by Mom or Dad 4) Mom immediately volunteered to be polygraphed, and did so, & Dad volunteered to be polygraphed, but LE declined to do so 5) no friend or family member from either parent has come forward to cast suspicion on either parent

Yes, that's how I see it, too. I also see good reasonable doubt that the parents are responsible because of the reports by the neighbor of seeing the man walking down the street at midnight holding a baby's face tightly to his chest. That is an odd sight and at just the right time that child could have been taken. What grieves me, though, is that if that happened, she is in bad hands. She was also sick with a cold so breathing is always difficult them and to have her face pushed into that man's chest could have caused her demise. I don't want to think that way but I can't help it.

[DLT88]

Also, if baby Lisa didn't cry, it could be because a hand went over her mouth right away. With a cold, she can't breathe thru her nose either so I worry so much about what happened to her. One has to inhale first to let out a cry so she probably wasn't able to do that.

[Kamille]

Originally Posted by Dutchie

What about possibly and ex-partner or the estranged husband of DB? Someone who was holding a grudge or wanted some kind or revenge???

I'm surprised that there hasn't been much more scrutiny placed on the mother and family of JI's son.

From what I understand, JI has been living in the home for about 10 years. The son is 8. So it stands to reason that the "ex", mother of his child, may have lived there too at some point.

This would give her intimate knowledge of the house, the neighbourhood and at what times it would be very quiet and possibly a key to the door. Haven't read much about the situation with JI and his ex, why they split and why he seems to have full custody of the son and she doesn't appear to have joint custody or even visitation. That might make someone bitter about him moving another woman in and him having another child with her. Especially since it appears they were talking marriage and he didn't marry the mother of his son.

I wonder when they first started talking about getting married. Was it recent? When did they officially get engaged? Was there a proposal and a ring?

I also wondered what was going to happen prior to the spring of next year that would allow JI and DB to wed. It was put out there pretty early in the investigation that they had plans to get married then. Were they waiting for her husband to return from an overseas tour to get the divorce going? Were they talking with either him or his family about this? Did either he or his family have a problem with the fact that DB wanted a divorce? And again, why didn't he or his family appear to have any custody or visitation with the son?

Just because the "exes" may have alibis, doesn't mean they couldn't send someone else on a mission. I wonder what kind of "associates" they and/or their families have.

MOO

[Whocanitbenow]

Originally Posted by DLT88

Also, if baby Lisa didn't cry, it could be because a hand went over her mouth right away. With a cold, she can't breathe thru her nose either so I worry so much about what happened to her. One has to inhale first to let out a cry so she probably wasn't able to do that.

You could pick my kids up and they would never wake up at that age. I see more intruder than I do Family member in what is being reported.

[Mountain_Kat]

Intruder just happens to know JI is working his first overnight? And this intruder just happens to know that DB has left a window and/or door open? And then this intruder breaks into an occupied house under the cover of darkeness, snatches a baby and turns on all the lights in the house?!

Oh, and snags all 3 cells phones conveniently placed together on the kitchen counter?

Uh uh. Nope. (JMO, of course.)

[mysticrose]

I keep trying to put together a some other dude did it scene and I am having a heck of a time I'll tell ya whats holding me back maybe you can help me sort this out.

First the cell phone's are bothering me, there is something on those cell phones imho that nobody wants found. Yes a perp could have taken them knowing their name/contact was on the phone thus stirring up interest as they would know LE would go through them or someone in the home ditched them.

I keep reading about a dog in the home, no barking from the dog or action taken on its behalf. So either the dog knows the perp in some sort of way (friend or family) or it was conked out beyond belief, or the perp just happened to have a great big steak on them.

The lights and window issue. Again nothing from the dog, you would think someone who came through a window or even a front door and started turning on lights, snags the baby wouldn't perk a dog's interest ?
My neighbor and ourselves were having problems with thefts around our property for quite sometime. She has a kennel full of large dogs that are outside right in front of her property, mainly gas was being stolen from our cars wich in revelance to her dog kennel were fairly close, I could not figure out why they weren't barking. Then she calls me one day to tell me someone had stolen her wallet out of her truck wich was like 1 ft away from the dog kennel and it dawned on me that it is apparent the dogs know the perp, because they bark at me when I go check my mail and I have lived here over 8 years and the same dogs. Turned out it was her husband that had been stealing due to a meth problem he had.

Mom heard nothing, the other kids heard nothing. I suppose if ALL the doors were closed perhaps, and that would make sense as to why she did not notice any lights...

And last but probably not really last Everything seems out of the ordinary that night then what regulary happens at that home. Doors unlocked,moms not sure she locked them but usally does. lights left on,moms sure she turned them off. Window left open, Dads first night away from the home.Child is in moms bed that usally isn't.

I just have a really hard time believing that a perp turned on all the lights while moving about the house, unless they new maybe mom had been drinking and drank enough to knock her out. Perhaps one of the kids getting up to use the bathroom turned on the lights?

OMG that last one reminds me of the Haleigh Cummings case.......

[mysticrose]

Another thing I have been reading up on all day is that most infant/baby abductions almost always happen in the daylight between like 6 am - 6 pm so the night intruder is not working for me either, not saying it can't happen but statisticly it doesn't fit

[mum]

Originally Posted by cindysue

I keep thinking someone that knew family and neighborhood well..if all these things can be substantated then what leads me to believe this is : The neighbors dog let out , the man with baby sighting, the dumpster fire seem to all point away from family...I think its possible that the door was left open cause when her company left she was tired and didnt check door ..i think maybe the boy getting up in the middle of the night turned on lights ..maybe when he got up Lisa was already gone. Maybe the lights were off till that point. I think the screen was pushed in cause someone tryed to push in the window with screen up. I dont think its suspicious that the dad left his cell at home cause he had a work phone? And i wonder if the mother was buying wine for the homeless guy...did they find the box in their house. I dont know why but i feel they are innocent ..I hope the LE doesnt use only statistics to dictate how they investigate crimes.. IMO thats how i see the case at this time.

Also in order to find the home, you need to know how to get to it. Not an area where you just happen to be at. Indication that one needs to know how to get there.

[Whocanitbenow]

Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat

Intruder just happens to know JI is working his first overnight? And this intruder just happens to know that DB has left a window and/or door open? And then this intruder breaks into an occupied house under the cover of darkeness, snatches a baby and turns on all the lights in the house?!

Oh, and snags all 3 cells phones conveniently placed together on the kitchen counter?

Uh uh. Nope. (JMO, of course.)

Maybe they did not know it was overnight but were just watching and looking for opportunity. Maybe he took the phones because now a days, Most people don't have land lines and only keep cells. So he took them to keep them from calling police, Maybe this is someone they know and maybe it is someone they have never met who wanted that baby.

Parents always get the benefit from me until they prove otherwise.

[Kat]

Originally Posted by mysticrose

I keep trying to put together a some other dude did it scene and I am having a heck of a time I'll tell ya whats holding me back maybe you can help me sort this out.

First the cell phone's are bothering me, there is something on those cell phones imho that nobody wants found. Yes a perp could have taken them knowing their name/contact was on the phone thus stirring up interest as they would know LE would go through them or someone in the home ditched them.

I keep reading about a dog in the home, no barking from the dog or action taken on its behalf. So either the dog knows the perp in some sort of way (friend or family) or it was conked out beyond belief, or the perp just happened to have a great big steak on them.

The lights and window issue. Again nothing from the dog, you would think someone who came through a window or even a front door and started turning on lights, snags the baby wouldn't perk a dog's interest ?
My neighbor and ourselves were having problems with thefts around our property for quite sometime. She has a kennel full of large dogs that are outside right in front of her property, mainly gas was being stolen from our cars wich in revelance to her dog kennel were fairly close, I could not figure out why they weren't barking. Then she calls me one day to tell me someone had stolen her wallet out of her truck wich was like 1 ft away from the dog kennel and it dawned on me that it is apparent the dogs know the perp, because they bark at me when I go check my mail and I have lived here over 8 years and the same dogs. Turned out it was her husband that had been stealing due to a meth problem he had.

Mom heard nothing, the other kids heard nothing. I suppose if ALL the doors were closed perhaps, and that would make sense as to why she did not notice any lights...

And last but probably not really last Everything seems out of the ordinary that night then what regulary happens at that home. Doors unlocked,moms not sure she locked them but usally does. lights left on,moms sure she turned them off. Window left open, Dads first night away from the home.Child is in moms bed that usally isn't.

I just have a really hard time believing that a perp turned on all the lights while moving about the house, unless they new maybe mom had been drinking and drank enough to knock her out. Perhaps one of the kids getting up to use the bathroom turned on the lights?

OMG that last one reminds me of the Haleigh Cummings case.......

Bolded respectfully by me

If Jeremy noticed that the corner of the screen was bent in the computer room when he went to close it (video of this and transcription located on thread about lights and window) then I assume that the screen was within the frame of the window as it normally would be---wouldn't you?

So---an intruder comes in through the computer room window thereby bending the frame of the screen. Yet that intruder doesn't remove the screen to gain access through the window. Rather that intruder bends the frame in order to slide the screen up and then slides the screen back down into place?

Wouldn't it be easier to remove the screen to have complete access to the open window? Or how about just cut the screen? Or how about just get your fingernail up under the spline (that seal that holds the screen in the screen window frame) and just pull the screening out of the frame and throw it to the ground?

But yet this intruder---opens the screen window, makes sure the screen window is back in place before moving into the home---opening doors in order to turn on lights---and exists through a door.



huhn. Not working for me how about you?

[tink92]

Originally Posted by Miziree

"While we are speaking of abducted babies, I’ll list them all again. (From memory. I may have missed one or two.) I include babies two and a half or younger, only cases where it looks like the baby was abducted by a stranger and it doesn’t look like the baby is dead or that the parents were involved."

http://charleyross.wordpress.com/201...issing-babies/

After reading things like this above article and so many missing kids with no trace, I think it is always a possibility..There are really sick people out there.

I think whoever took her has meet or knows the family.
They climbed through the window it is possible that they know the other neighbor's movements and when they went to sleep.
They knew where Lisa's room was.
























The dog's not barking.
Lisa not crying.
The dad's first day on the night shift also points to it being someone who knows this.
The light's turned on, maybe knew no light would effect the mom in her room.
Taking the DNA of neighbor makes me think they have someone's DNA and are trying to eliminate everyone known to be in the house..

LE did stress that the family was not involved in the beginning and sent out a unusual Amber alert. I still don't think that the reason the LE said the parents were not cooperating is because they think they are guilty. I think they said it to get the parents back talking with them. The parents are the only ones who know who has been around little Lisa or them. My sister is close to me but she would have no idea who I seen in the store, passed walking in the neighborhood, had at my house, people I talk to at my kids school..ect.

I don't like to rely on statistics..there are too many missing without evidence and no clear abduction..so focus stays on family... there is always a first time for anything. Cases like this remind me of Jaycee and her step-father. There is not enough to make me believe this family harmed her yet, I really don't want to rush to judgement.. I just don't know what happened!!

Please GOD, helps us find this precious little pumpkin pie!

ALL IMO...

I TOTALLY agree with all you say!...you speak a lot of sense.

That link to other missing babies was very interesting but so sad...IMO this case sounds similar to a lot of those cases,....especially baby Sabrina.

[21merc7]

Now we find out that one of the autos was broken into about a month ago.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/261848...72173#44872173

2:17 mark