Should Darlie have a new trial?

Here is an essay listing some posthumous pardons (maybe exoneration was the wrong term )

http://m.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/PosthumousPardons.pdf


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Vhead said:

I am a firm believer in her guilt but a stronger believer in justice so I think she should get another trial if valid issues are raised by defense... Maybe this could end things once and for all.

I do not endorse the death penalty for anyone simply because we have put too many people to death who have been later exonerated .. Hopefully a new trial will give her LWOP

IMO

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they didnt try her for both boys, if exonerated for this verdict they can still pursue her for the other.

Vhead said:

Here is an essay listing some posthumous pardons (maybe exoneration was the wrong term )

http://m.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/PosthumousPardons.pdf


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Considering the information in your link, I doubt you read it before posting it...and you're right, exoneration is the wrong term.

Arizona -not based on innocence, based on payback for a sacrifice.

California -no basis for exoneration except a confession that supposedly cancels out the murderer's confession...whatever

Colorado - rape conviction, not murder

Florida - Jim Morrison exonerated for misdemeanors...not murder

Georgia - man was exonerated because he was lynched before his appeals were resolved. No actual innocence as a basis.
Georgia - woman was exonerated because an all white, all male jury convincted her. No actual innocence as a basis.

Illinois - No actual evidence of innocence, just suspicions the trial was unfair. The legal system needs to work through, not be preempted.

Maryland - not murder, embezzlement
Maryland - no actual basis for innocence except retractions by two witnesses. Anyone that knows court cases know recantations mean very little most of the time.

Massachusetts - Sacco and Vanzetti....which was ridiculous! There is no evidence of innocence, as a matter of fact there is good evidence they were part of the conspiracy which resulted in the death which means all participants are equally guilty.

Montana - not murder

Nebraska - Only true exoneration in this bunch!

New York - not murder

Oklahoma - not murder

Pennsylvania - no proof of innocence, another case of trying to make up for past prejudices, etc.

South Carolina - no proof of innocence, speculation

Texas - rape, not murder

United States - not murder

Vhead said:

I am a firm believer in her guilt but a stronger believer in justice so I think she should get another trial if valid issues are raised by defense... Maybe this could end things once and for all.

I do not endorse the death penalty for anyone simply because we have put too many people to death who have been later exonerated .. Hopefully a new trial will give her LWOP

IMO

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Valid issues will not get Darlie a new trial. Only evidence that proves an intruder committed the crime will get her a new trial.

For 15 years she has been unable to do that, she's lost all her appeals.

Her defencehad the chance at trial to raise valid issues.

There have been no cases in which evidence surfaced which would have proven that an executed person was innocent. Many people have been freed from death row before execution, but the Coalition for the Abolition of the Death Penalty has not been able to find a case in recent or not so recent files. BTW I am anti-death penalty, too. If the media could find just one case that proved an innocent was executed, it would be trumpted across this country. Now, I have no doubt that back in the 20's and 30's when the DP was being implemented on an almost daily basis that innocent people were executed, but we still need that proof. The problem is that once a person has been executed the case is seldom looked at again.

Cami,
Is Darlie out of appeals?


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Crow_Ascending said:

There have been no cases in which evidence surfaced which would have proven that an executed person was innocent. Many people have been freed from death row before execution, but the Coalition for the Abolition of the Death Penalty has not been able to find a case in recent or not so recent files. BTW I am anti-death penalty, too. If the media could find just one case that proved an innocent was executed, it would be trumpted across this country. Now, I have no doubt that back in the 20's and 30's when the DP was being implemented on an almost daily basis that innocent people were executed, but we still need that proof. The problem is that once a person has been executed the case is seldom looked at again.

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Here are some with strong evidence of innocence and some that were pardoned posthumously many years after their executions. I believe there are probably more than those mentioned on this page:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent

Not to argue too much, but......Possibly is not proven.

Wescott said:

Here are some with strong evidence of innocence and some that were pardoned posthumously many years after their executions. I believe there are probably more than those mentioned on this page:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent

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Carlos DeLuna, very interesting case....a long time sledgehammer for the anti dp crowd. Problem is, it's all bunk.
Just in case you don't know about appeals, I'll give you a short-short version. When you are convicted of murder and given the death penalty you start your appeals with the direct appeal.

This appeal deals solely with procedural or legal errors in your case...like a juror being excused for unlawful reasons or the judge interpreted the law wrong or even read the jury instructions wrong. That appeals goes from the state, to the circuit court and, possibly, to the Supreme Court.

Next is the writ or habeas corpus appeal which deals with Constitutional errors in the murder trial. Things like ineffective counsel, self incrimination, speedy trial, etc. This goes the same path...state, circuit court and, possibly, the Supreme Court. This is also the time to bring up a new witness or evidence of actual innocence, like someone else confessing to the crime.

I've read DeLuna's writ appeal, it says nothing about a witness or confession from someone else. Which means the claims by the reporters, etc. didn't hold up to scrutiny (but sure make a nice story)
http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/873/873.F2d.757.88-2613.html

With Ruben Cantu, the issue of the identification was all over both his direct and writ appeals...and the courts found his arguments without merit. So whether the anti dp crowd likes it or not, this was a fairly judged case.
http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/967/967.F2d.1006.91-5512.html

And the Larry Griffin links are the most blatant attempt at manipulation I've seen in a long time - completely one sided.
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/946/1356/421842/

With Joseph O'Dell we get half of the story...as usual. There was overwhelming evidence O'Dell committed murder and rape, including a confession, but the focus on one part of the evidence is a typical trick.
The DNA is addressed in points 152-180
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/95/1214/547098/

David Spence is innocent because of two opinions? And the basis they give, the "for hire" murder, applied to only one of the victims...there were three! Give me a break! There were co conspirators and he confessed to two people. Also, there was odontology evidence.
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/80/989/627569/

Leo Jones basis his claims of innocence on the dismissal of the police in his case years later and late breaking eyewitnesses. The most hackneyed and overused claim for innocence! Like someone else's conduct years later proves you were innocent, ridiculous!
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/80/989/627569/

Can I say I'm sick of hearing about Gary Graham? Lord that man is a bad penny...
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/950/1009/110579/
Let's have a little balance to this case and present the pro death penalty's site on the Graham case:
http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/graham.htm

Claude Jones - all puff and no smoke, much less fire! The basis for innocence is that the hair that tied Jones to the murder was denied mito DNA testing, so that obviously means he's innocent. Whatever

Interesting they tried to tie Willis to Willingham.
http://courtlistener.com/ca5/9Zm/willingham-v-cockrell/

i think if the topic is about darlie getting a new trial, the discussion would be specific issues with her first trial.

runsdeep said:

i think if the topic is about darlie getting a new trial, the discussion would be specific issues with her first trial.

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She's only had one trial.

2 percent said:

She's only had one trial.

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should darlie have a new trial. should she or shouldnt she, and opinions why. see?

I think it's futile for Darlie to have a new trial. She would be tried for Devon's murder and I can assure you that Greg Davis will be all over it. It really won't change anything. Darin, her mother have been caught in lies. I have a couple of friends on FB that confronted Darlie Kee about a lie in the Robert Riggs video on YouTube. Darlie Kee states on the video that Darlie Lynn never took a polygraph. Documents from Lew Sterret state that she did. The results were never published. You know they couldn't have been beneficial because she would have released them if she had passed or even inconclusive.

When we asked Darlie Kee about the polygraph, she became very ugly and insulting.

I've even read one of Darlie's supporters call Darlie Kee a crazy-a$$ b**ch.




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Trooper514 said:

I think it's futile for Darlie to have a new trial. She would be tried for Devon's murder and I can assure you that Greg Davis will be all over it. It really won't change anything. Darin, her mother have been caught in lies. I have a couple of friends on FB that confronted Darlie Kee about a lie in the Robert Riggs video on YouTube. Darlie Kee states on the video that Darlie Lynn never took a polygraph. Documents from Lew Sterret state that she did. The results were never published. You know they couldn't have been beneficial because she would have released them if she had passed or even inconclusive.

When we asked Darlie Kee about the polygraph, she became very ugly and insulting.

I've even read one of Darlie's supporters call Darlie Kee a crazy-a$$ b**ch.

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There is a reason why lie detector tests are inadmissible. It's because they are unreliable. And not to be rude but I checked your FB page. Noone's on there.

You're right. My own page was made when supporters tried to shut the other 2 pages down. FB didn't shut them down. My page really isn't needed. So, please check out The Darlie Routier Case and The Darlie Routier is Guilty. Plenty of action there. Polygraphs have been known to be admitted and this polygraph was granted by the judge without the prosecutions knowledge. If it had helped her, it would've been used. She failed it.


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It was reported that after Darlie took the polygraph, she and her mother were seen sobbing in each others arms in the hallway. I wonder if any of Darlie's supporters would urge her to take another polygraph now that Darin has bailed.

But like I said polygraphs are unreliable. I don't care that she failed. Melvin Foster was thought to be the Green River Killer. He failed a polygraph. Gary Ridgeway passed his polygraph. Two tests in one case and both were wrong. Bill Wegerle failed his polygraph when he was accused of murdering his wife. Some years later BTK sent the local paper her driver's license and pictures he took at the crime scene. Obviously Bill didn't kill his wife.

I know some states require both parties in the case to agree about whether polygraph results can be used prior to taking the test. I'll admit I have no idea what the rules are in Texas about polygraphs. I would think that had she passed and tried to introduce it the DA would have had sound legal arguments about the validity of the test.

But for the reasons mentioned above polygraphs mean nothing to me. Innocent people fail them all the time.

And so do the guilty! (Actually, a polygraph machine does not detect truth or lies; it only measures galvanic responses. A polygraph is only as reliable as the examiner who knows what questions to ask and when.)

Sinsaint said:

But like I said polygraphs are unreliable. I don't care that she failed. Melvin Foster was thought to be the Green River Killer. He failed a polygraph. Gary Ridgeway passed his polygraph. Two tests in one case and both were wrong. Bill Wegerle failed his polygraph when he was accused of murdering his wife. Some years later BTK sent the local paper her driver's license and pictures he took at the crime scene. Obviously Bill didn't kill his wife.

I know some states require both parties in the case to agree about whether polygraph results can be used prior to taking the test. I'll admit I have no idea what the rules are in Texas about polygraphs. I would think that had she passed and tried to introduce it the DA would have had sound legal arguments about the validity of the test.

But for the reasons mentioned above polygraphs mean nothing to me. Innocent people fail them all the time.

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Innocent people flunk polys all the time. I believe the point here is both Darlie and her mother lying. Neither Darin nor Darlie took an FBI or LE administered polygraph.

Darlie actually admits on national tv she took a polygraph and it was "inconclusive" She failed in other words, but the poly was administered by her defence, not the state.

Thanks Cami. That's is the point. Both women have been lying.


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