"Cover her face"

[Callie]

Hi All,

Thanks for the thread, Bonepile. I am just as incensed as you and others are that she was left out like that for so long.
Good God, LE show a little respect!

But, I think it even goes beyond that.

There must be some sort of guidelines, rules or regulations concerning
coroners/medical examiners.
I've been looking on the web trying to find out about how soon a coroner/medical examiner should arrive on the scene of a suspicious death and if it would make a difference in being able to accurately calculate time of death.

I did find this and a couple others I didn't link to as they basically said about the same thing, but maybe some of you can find even better sites.


http://jessaminecountycoroner.com/The_Coroner_s_Call.html

Since in most cases the body of the deceased cannot be moved or repositioned until the coroner arrives,

Thanks a bunch, Adam, You #%@*&^%#

it is imperative to arrive at the scene as quickly as possible.

So let's see, AS calls 911 at 6:48 AM. I would think the detectives would have called the ME within an hour there a bouts. Oh, lets give the detectives and hour after being called to the scene by Fire Department / EMT . I might be being a little to generous here. That brings it to 8:45 AM but the ME doesn't arrive until what 8: PM?

That's over 11 hours!

So now we don't know for sure about the blood pooling because it was pretty well set by then.

[Bonepile]

I emailed Anne Bremmer about this issue and received a short/ nice response from her. Hopefully this will be investigated in her quest to get things done for Rebecca's family. One can only hope.

[Curious Me]

It's October 2011 now. I can't believe HLN just had the shocking (to this day) pic of Rebecca laying out there like that. Does this mean that for all time they can go on disrespecting the memory of Rebecca with these horrible pics. It's disrespectful to the people who loved her. I don't think I remember when this was something they showed so casually on national tv. It doesn't sit well with me to see that pic flashed every couple of minutes.

[Bonepile]

Here we are on the 1st of December and we still are waiting for answers to some of the basic questions or should I say the "correct" answers to some basic questions. I have talked this disrespect up with friends in the service, I have talked this disrespect up with friends in the police department and they are astounded with the way the authorities handled this issue, and they are very concerned that it was but a portent of things to come. Hopefully a new independent investigation will bring this to full light, and that these authorities in future will handle things in a responsible and correct way. Rebecca should have been covered up .. not the case of Rebecca.

[inthedark14]

I doubt anyone will ever forget the images that were on the news a year ago today...it still makes me want to cry. Such disregard for a human being is unforgivable. I've noticed since then how quickly LE moves to put up tarps, tents something to cover human beings that are deceased. Just yesterday on the news, the traffic helicopter was reporting that LE were putting a tarp over a car with a fatality, and THEY DID NOT SHOW the scene until the tarp was in place. It's the ultimate disgrace to allow her to be left out like that...

[freespeech]

Originally Posted by inthedark14

I doubt anyone will ever forget the images that were on the news a year ago today...it still makes me want to cry. Such disregard for a human being is unforgivable. I've noticed since then how quickly LE moves to put up tarps, tents something to cover human beings that are deceased. Just yesterday on the news, the traffic helicopter was reporting that LE were putting a tarp over a car with a fatality, and THEY DID NOT SHOW the scene until the tarp was in place. It's the ultimate disgrace to allow her to be left out like that...

I wonder if anyone confronted Gore or his spokespeople about this? I don't recall that he ever responded to this issue. Had anyone heard an official response as to why Rebecca's corpse was not provided a privacy screen/covering?

I think it is very strange if no one thought to ask why she had not been shielded and why they had to wait 11+ hours for Lucas to arrive when the department employs several deputy ME.

Also, Lucas was promoted to Chief Deputy ME after this fiasco...

The link below shows an organizational chart with the number of Deputy ME employed by the San Diego Sheriff's Department.

http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/me/docs/orgchar0910.pdf

Also, here's the article on Lucas' promotion.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sd...8e560211e.html

[Mrs. Holmes]

I agree.... I don't think it was a deliberate cover up....this is in my mind very close to the truth..... there were assumptions made..... but when you delve deeper.... the facts don't add up in this case....

[justice be served]

Originally Posted by SunnieRN

I agree with you Bonepile and remember the early discussions regarding this very matter. Someone stated that they believe that LE believed Rebecca was responsible for Max's accident, which I do not in any way agree with, and that she was treated that way, due to this fact.

I find that idea reprehensible as it would mean these LE officers pre judged guilt and dealt out punishment as they saw fit. Even when bones are being exhumed, there are tents erected. As stated, this is done for the family, as well as the victim.

This has made me emotional since the day this case started and I am still emotional and angry about it today. The lack of justice, started that day, continuing through the 'investigation', the media reports and in the PC. That does not even count the posters who continuously throw accusations at a person who has no way to address or refute those allegations.

BBM. The fact Rebecca was left to the elements for 13 hours is the most disrespectful act imaginable. No covering of her body, no protection from degradation of evidence. No ability to confirm closely the time of death because of the delay.

According to the San Diego County Medical Examiner's 2011 Report, by doing the math of actual scene investigations, approximately 5 scenes may have been investigated that July day. Maybe more, maybe less.

With 18 scene investigators in the department in 2011 and 5 deaths presumably that day, assuming all were working that July day, there were over 3 investigators that could have been dispatched assuming the other 15+ investigators were handling the other 4 scenes.

The fact it took 13 hours to arrive tells its own story. And that story needs to be told. IMO it doesn't take a lot of imagination to do so.

[jjenny]

And the longer she lay there before ME arrived, the harder it became to accurately pin point her time of death.
And ME would know this perfectly well.

[Bonepile]

I still believe that this TOTAL lack of respect for the living and the dead told me from the very first couple of hours how this investigation would go irregardless of what determinations they made, and what conclusions they reached. I cannot think of any other case where 13 hours elapsed or so little was done by so many to do absolutely nothing. It still upsets me one year later, and I guess it always will. Thanks to all that concur with me.

[Salem]

Posting in most threads.

Originally Posted by Salem

Okay Everybody - this has been said a hundred times, I'm sure. But I'm giving it one more shot and then I'm just going to issue TOs to EVERYBODY.

Dina is a victim of Max's death. As his mother, she has every right to want his death re-investigated. DO NOT BASH HER. You may talk about her media presence but you cannot keep accusing her of nefarious activity or thoughts - even if it is your opinion. She doesn't warrant that and neither LE or MSM have given any reason to indicate she is suspect in the death of RZ. So... you can talk about her actions, her media presence, and the timeline, but stop the bashing.

RZ is a victim here also. DO NOT BASH HER. You may talk about MSM, LE and timeline information but you cannot keep accusing her of nefarious activity or thoughts - even if it is your opinion. She doesn't warrant that and neither LE or MSM have given any reason to indicate she is suspect in the death of Max.

Both women are victims. Like it or not, that is the way it is and you are expected to post accordingly. If you fail to do so, you will lose posting privileges for a period of time.

Salem

[Quester]

Could it be that SD LE intentionally left RZ’s body uncovered in that courtyard for the 13+ hours?

Could it be that SD LE wanted and knew media helicopters would fly above, capturing photos, and publishing photos to the world?

TIA

[justice be served]

Originally Posted by Quester

Could it be that SD LE intentionally left RZ’s body uncovered in that courtyard for the 13+ hours?

Could it be that SD LE wanted and knew media helicopters would fly above, capturing photos, and publishing photos to the world?

TIA

I am curious if anyone close to Rebecca in San Diego (obviously not the Zahaus in the midwest) made a plea to the investigators to put up a tent or give her some dignity. IMO, if SDSO did not comply with that request OR no one made that request - that in itself was an "in your face" statement reflecting the tenor of those individuals feelings about her death.

Has anyone seen a similar uncovered deceased body on major news channels in a metropolitan city before? I imagine the norm would be to erect some shield prior to news organizations arrival at the scene or at the very least, shortly thereafter.

[MyBelle]

Originally Posted by Quester

Could it be that SD LE intentionally left RZ’s body uncovered in that courtyard for the 13+ hours?

Could it be that SD LE wanted and knew media helicopters would fly above, capturing photos, and publishing photos to the world?

TIA

I do believe it was intentionally left uncovered because the death was possibly a homicide. The ME was summoned. Covering it with a tarp would have possibly compromised evidence that might have been on the body.

The media who took photos also blurred the body.

JMO

[Quester]

LE initially described it as a "violent death", I wonder if there was something that was stalling LE and/or ME’s ability to do their job? Wonder if, in turn, LE allowed her body to be publicly exposed as a means of getting the word out, grabbing peoples’ attention and lots of it, worldwide to boot, with nude, dead, bound photos rather than allowing the case to be more quietly taken care of and possibly forgotten?

And no, I don't recall ever having seen "a similar uncovered deceased body on major news channels in a metropolitan city before." Bizarre!

"It appears to be some type of a violent death, and I'm not going to compromise the integrity of the investigation by giving anything more than that at this time," San Diego County Sheriff's Dept. Capt. Tim Curran said.
7/15/11: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...61-504083.html

[MyBelle]

Originally Posted by Quester

LE initially described it as a "violent death", I wonder if there was something that was stalling LE and/or ME’s ability to do their job? Wonder if, in turn, LE allowed her body to be publicly exposed as a means of getting the word out, grabbing peoples’ attention and lots of it, worldwide to boot, with nude, dead, bound photos rather than allowing the case to be more quietly taken care of and possibly forgotten?

And no, I don't recall ever having seen "a similar uncovered deceased body on major news channels in a metropolitan city before." Bizarre!

"It appears to be some type of a violent death, and I'm not going to compromise the integrity of the investigation by giving anything more than that at this time," San Diego County Sheriff's Dept. Capt. Tim Curran said.
7/15/11: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...61-504083.html

The body was in the privacy of a backyard of a residence. LE didn't place it there. It would only be seen from other private residences or from air space above, neither of which are controlled by LE. LE didn't themselves take photo or distribute them. LE has never controlled the media in the U.S. as far as I know so why would they do anything differently in this case?

JMO

[FightTheOstrich]

Originally Posted by MyBelle

The body was in the privacy of a backyard of a residence. LE didn't place it there. It would only be seen from other private residences or from air space above, neither of which are controlled by LE. LE didn't themselves take photo or distribute them. LE has never controlled the media in the U.S. as far as I know so why would they do anything differently in this case?

JMO

IMO
I'm confused. So let's say RZ did kill herself, are you suggesting that she should have predicted that her death would become a 3 ring circus and it's her fault bc she chose to end her life in the backyard?

I was raised to respect the dead and leaving her exposed was in very poor taste. It was also negligent. LE has stated that they first considered this a homicide but yet didn't protect her body to preserve evidence? LE on the scene should have been suspended and investigated. I don't care if that wasn't the Department's procedure, it show insensitivity and a total lack of good judgement, two qualities LE should possess.

[justice be served]

Originally Posted by MyBelle

I do believe it was intentionally left uncovered because the death was possibly a homicide. The ME was summoned. Covering it with a tarp would have possibly compromised evidence that might have been on the body.
The media who took photos also blurred the body.

JMO

BBM. I was not suggesting that the body be disturbed by covering with a tarp. There are many tenting and shielding items available to law enforcement. Particularly over a period of 13+ hours one could be supplied once helicopters and gawkers from adjacent houses began.

Here are several which I'm sure we've all seen in photos of normal active crime scenes where there is respect for the deceased.

https://www.lynnpeavey.com/product_i...roducts_id=782

https://www.lynnpeavey.com/product_i...oducts_id=1053

[CuriousGeorgia]

The only people that should be blamed are the Editors that agreed to air the footage, IMO. LE knew what they were doing and were concerned about evidence. If you want to blame people, call or write the Editors of the stations that aired the footage, not LE who were just doing their job, IMO.

[CuriousGeorgia]

Originally Posted by justice be served

BBM. I was not suggesting that the body be disturbed by covering with a tarp. There are many tenting and shielding items available to law enforcement. Particularly over a period of 13+ hours one could be supplied once helicopters and gawkers from adjacent houses began.

Here are several which I'm sure we've all seen in photos of normal active crime scenes where there is respect for the deceased.

https://www.lynnpeavey.com/product_i...roducts_id=782

https://www.lynnpeavey.com/product_i...oducts_id=1053

Do you know if SDSO has these, and if so, how many?

[justice be served]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorgia

The only people that should be blamed are the Editors that agreed to air the footage, IMO. LE knew what they were doing and were concerned about evidence. If you want to blame people, call or write the Editors of the stations that aired the footage, not LE who were just doing their job, IMO.

IMO law enforcement should have been reprimanded or suspended for leaving her exposed basically for the whole daylight hours and compromising the crime scene.

The other issue it was not just the media TV coverage aired it was also the numerous adjacent homes close by which had people viewing from second stories and rooftops. Law enforcement is unquestionably in error IMO.

[justice be served]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorgia

Do you know if SDSO has these, and if so, how many?

It is law enforcement protocol to both protect the scene from disintigration and prying eyes.

Are you suggesting they couldn't in 13 hours go to the nearby Sports Authority and purchase one for $50 bucks? It's a beach community and there was probably one in the Spreckles garage for pete's sake.

And please don't suggest that it wasn't worth the money. LE screwed up on all counts. I highly doubt ANYONE would really dispute that fact.

[Quester]

media interest + “air space” + helicopters + cameras + body(nude + bound + dead + outside) – LE covering = exposure to the world

[CuriousGeorgia]

Originally Posted by justice be served

IMO law enforcement should have been reprimanded or suspended for leaving her exposed basically for the whole daylight hours and compromising the crime scene.

The other issue it was not just the media TV coverage aired it was also the numerous adjacent homes close by which had people viewing from second stories and rooftops. Law enforcement is unquestionably in error IMO.

IMO, Rebecca knew well where she was hanging herself naked. LE is not responsible for who saw her, she is, IMO.

[justice be served]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorgia

IMO, Rebecca knew well where she was hanging herself naked. LE is not responsible for who saw her, she is, IMO.

Law enforcement initially was quoted that it was a brutal death scene. With that acknowledgment, law enforcement had the duty to protect the evidence and the dignity of the deceased. They didn't know if they were dealing with a homocide or a suicide.

Are you suggesting that law enforcement assumed she committed suicide (which is not evidenced by the way) and thus she should not be shielded from view because she would have wanted to be seen?