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JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


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  #226  
Old 03-31-2012, 04:44 PM
eileenhawkeye eileenhawkeye is offline
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Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
"You're not the only one, OneLove. My brother and I were talking a few years ago, and he definitely believes that someone in Patsy's family was subjected to sexual abuse. Or, to quote you what he said to me, "Guv, haven't you ever wondered why a beautiful woman like Pam Paugh never got married, never had children and let her looks go to waste so badly?" I have to admit, I'd never looked at it that way before"

That's such BS....what does your brother know about Patsy's family,and it's so chauvinistic to criticize Pam because what? She gained some weight? And chose not to get married? I chose not to get married because I didn't want to support some moron and am perfectly happy with boyfriends WITHOUT marriage. Pam was always attractive, had a career, and is quite intelligent.
I agree with you. There's nothing wrong with not getting married or never having children. I don't see the connection with childhood sexual abuse.
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  #227  
Old 03-31-2012, 06:47 PM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
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I agree with you. There's nothing wrong with not getting married or never having children. I don't see the connection with childhood sexual abuse.
There is nothing wrong with it, but there could very well be a connection to problems with sexual intimacy as an adult, which could lead to an aversion to marriage and/or pregnancy. Some one who was sexually abused as a child may also have problems with trusting a spouse or other man around their children and may choose to not have children because of it.
There is also a connection to childhood sexual abuse and obesity as an adult- making oneself as unattractive as possible to be unappealing to the opposite sex.
I am not suggesting that this is what is behind PP's obesity or choices, but it is is mistake to say there in no connection in general.
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  #228  
Old 03-31-2012, 08:55 PM
mothermayi mothermayi is offline
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Is it even possible

I have often wondered if this stuff they keep saying is possible. I remember reading that lE spent time in the house trying to figure stuff out but did they ever try yelling from the stairs up to the bathroom to see if it can be heard. Also I am guessing if it was ever done it would be from the stairs near Burke's room closest to the bathroom end of the third floor. So it seems like that would have been a good time to check on Burke. Also since your yelling for John right near his door, he probably woke up and heard you. I just think this stuff is all made up and when anyone has a chance to think about it, there is no way anyone would do this. I was also thinking that you couldn't really hear someone getting dressed from one bathroom to the other. Especially when your in the shower. Was there ever any mention of John being wet when police arrived? Where there any pictures of the bathroom that was just used for a shower to see if it looked wet?
Did anyone go into the bathroom and see if you could hear someone at the stairs since the house was so big. The top floor was as big as the second floor which was 4 bedrooms and a playroom. (I believe) Another question I had was would a man shut the door when he goes into the bathroom. What do you married people think? (or just in a relationship) I was thinking the door to his bathroom would have been shut making it harder to hear anything.
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  #229  
Old 03-31-2012, 11:21 PM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
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I have often wondered if this stuff they keep saying is possible. I remember reading that lE spent time in the house trying to figure stuff out but did they ever try yelling from the stairs up to the bathroom to see if it can be heard. Also I am guessing if it was ever done it would be from the stairs near Burke's room closest to the bathroom end of the third floor. So it seems like that would have been a good time to check on Burke. Also since your yelling for John right near his door, he probably woke up and heard you. I just think this stuff is all made up and when anyone has a chance to think about it, there is no way anyone would do this. I was also thinking that you couldn't really hear someone getting dressed from one bathroom to the other. Especially when your in the shower. Was there ever any mention of John being wet when police arrived? Where there any pictures of the bathroom that was just used for a shower to see if it looked wet?
Did anyone go into the bathroom and see if you could hear someone at the stairs since the house was so big. The top floor was as big as the second floor which was 4 bedrooms and a playroom. (I believe) Another question I had was would a man shut the door when he goes into the bathroom. What do you married people think? (or just in a relationship) I was thinking the door to his bathroom would have been shut making it harder to hear anything.
Patsy and JR each had their own separate bathroom/dressing rooms. The entire third floor was the master bedroom, closets, dressing rooms and the his and her bathrooms.
My husband always closes the bathroom door when he showers. It'd be kinda chilly to leave the door open.
LE did sound tests inside the house. They went to the basement and screamed with some officers up in the 3rd floor master bedroom and some officers across the street by the house of the neighbor who had heard the screams. They determined that the scream could be heard from both places. There was no way the parents would not have heard her scream from their bedroom.
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  #230  
Old 04-01-2012, 09:39 AM
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Cool

Is He gone yet?!

It's a crying shame that the media has been bullied into spineless supporter of John Ramsey's distortion of The Truth in order to avoid getting sucked into an expensive lawsuit...if only there were ONE that would flash a copy of Patsy's handwriting examples compared with the Ransom Note's but since they don't, I shall be keeping my signature picture below AND my avatar of Patsy striking a pose of her Daughter's Grave Forever & Ever, Amen.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:51 PM
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Why do you have that avatar river rat?
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  #232  
Old 04-01-2012, 07:26 PM
sandover sandover is offline
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Has anyone noticed...

... that in his recent press tour, John Ramsey has been saying repeatedly about the pageants, "I used to say to Patsy, JonBenet needs to lose a few of these so she learns that you don't always win in life."

This directly contradicts what Patsy writes in The Death of Innocence -- she says there that JonBenet only won a few pageants, and more often she lost them, or only won a small award of recognition in a sub-category like "Best Cover Girl."

It's a small detail, but it speaks to the way he is rewriting history on this press junket.

Last edited by sandover; 04-01-2012 at 07:28 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #233  
Old 04-01-2012, 11:45 PM
eileenhawkeye eileenhawkeye is offline
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I think JonBenet did pretty well in her pageants. I know that she was crowned Little Miss Christmas, Little Miss Colorado, and Little Miss Charlevoix, which would mean she was the top winner. I guess it depends on what is considering "losing" a pageant. If you win your division but not overall, did you lose? Patsy seems like the type that would consider that losing. I don't know if I would say that John is trying to rewrite history. I don't think he even knows much about what pageants JonBenet won or lost, and just think it's a good story to go along with his medal.
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  #234  
Old 04-02-2012, 11:00 AM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
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I think JonBenet did pretty well in her pageants. I know that she was crowned Little Miss Christmas, Little Miss Colorado, and Little Miss Charlevoix, which would mean she was the top winner. I guess it depends on what is considering "losing" a pageant. If you win your division but not overall, did you lose? Patsy seems like the type that would consider that losing. I don't know if I would say that John is trying to rewrite history. I don't think he even knows much about what pageants JonBenet won or lost, and just think it's a good story to go along with his medal.
If you look back in the archives of her photos (there used to be lots available on ACR), you will see a very different-looking little girl at age 3 when she started the pageants (I believe right after Patsy's chemo ended) than when she died. And I am not talking about the age progression that is of course, part of the changing appearance of every child as they age.
When JB began, she had sandy brown hair, and her natural color eyes. She was a cute, but not stunning, little girl. I would imaging her singing, dancing, violin, French lessons had not yet begun. I would suppose that she did not win many of those early pageants, at least not the grand prize. I am sure that is what JR refers to.
Later on, as JB began to be more and more "glamorized" by Patsy (the hair extensions, blonde highlights, blue eyes (her were green in real life), over-the-top costumes, dance lessons and pageant coaching she probably won almost all of them. I had read long ago that some mothers pulled their daughters out of a pageant if they knew that JB was competing. There was no point- they knew she'd win.
These pageant circuits tend to have pretty much the same little girls competing. Some will travel all over for various contests, especially the less popular contests, because they might be easier to win and the child can begin their "collection" of trophies and tiaras.
I do not intend any disrespect here to the children (or the dogs) but dog shows operate the same way. Before a dog ever gets to compete at Westminster, they have had many, many smaller shows and titles behind them. And handlers often find themselves competing against the same dogs over and over again. The only difference is that with the dog shows, there is point system that qualifies the dog to compete at higher levels. ALL the dogs at Westminster (and Crufts, in the UK) are already champions. They have already won best of breed, best of show, or best opposite at other shows. (Best opposite means that if the top dog is male, the top female, thought not the winner, is named best opposite (sex) and vice versa if the winner is a female).
With Miss America, Miss USA, etc. there are also divisions that have to be won before you get to compete for the top title. (State, County and local pageants come first). With the child pageants, I don't think that is the case. You don't have to be a previous winner to compete for the top crown. But I bet it helps.
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  #235  
Old 04-02-2012, 05:35 PM
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When I was looking back through photo's of JonBenet, I came across one that was black and white and looked to be in JB in full pageant hair, make up and dress. Am I wrong or is that JonBenet in a casket?


If so, I can only shake my head and think damn Pasty, you couldn't even let her be a little girl in death.
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  #236  
Old 04-02-2012, 07:20 PM
eileenhawkeye eileenhawkeye is offline
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When I was looking back through photo's of JonBenet, I came across one that was black and white and looked to be in JB in full pageant hair, make up and dress. Am I wrong or is that JonBenet in a casket?


If so, I can only shake my head and think damn Pasty, you couldn't even let her be a little girl in death.
That picture was actually from PMPT, but JonBenet was buried wearing a pageant dress, tiara, and her hair was done.
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  #237  
Old 04-02-2012, 08:29 PM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
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When I was looking back through photo's of JonBenet, I came across one that was black and white and looked to be in JB in full pageant hair, make up and dress. Am I wrong or is that JonBenet in a casket?


If so, I can only shake my head and think damn Pasty, you couldn't even let her be a little girl in death.
While I wouldn't put it past Patsy, that photo was likely a screen shot taken from the TV movie "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" by Lawrence Schiller, who wrote a book of the same title.
They used a mannequin for the corpse of JB because the director though it would be too traumatic to have the little actress portraying JB go through that. I'd be surprised, given his thoughts on that, if he had the little girl pose in a casket. I'd bet they used a mannequin for that scene as well.
If anyone ever watches that DVD, make sure to watch it at least once with the "director's commentary" turned ON. It really gives an insight to what Schiller was thinking.
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  #238  
Old 04-17-2012, 02:48 PM
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"You're not the only one, OneLove. My brother and I were talking a few years ago, and he definitely believes that someone in Patsy's family was subjected to sexual abuse. Or, to quote you what he said to me, "Guv, haven't you ever wondered why a beautiful woman like Pam Paugh never got married, never had children and let her looks go to waste so badly?" I have to admit, I'd never looked at it that way before"

That's such BS....what does your brother know about Patsy's family,and it's so chauvinistic to criticize Pam because what? She gained some weight? And chose not to get married? I chose not to get married because I didn't want to support some moron and am perfectly happy with boyfriends WITHOUT marriage. Pam was always attractive, had a career, and is quite intelligent.
Well, Maikai, since my brother is not here right now to respond to this, it falls to me. By his own admission, he knows hardly anything about this case and is quite content that way, having seen how obsessed I've become.

But as to whether or not it's BS, given what I know of my dear brother, it very well could be. On the other hand, I'm reminded of the old saying, "out of the mouths of babes..." He said it and it got me thinking in a new way. That's all.

Frankly, if it were ONLY what became of Pam, I'd be tempted to write it off as BS myself. Except it's not JUST that. There's a few other things. Try looking at it that way.
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  #239  
Old 04-17-2012, 02:54 PM
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There is nothing showing any abuse in Patsy's household...quite the opposite.
That's a matter of opinion, and THAT's me giving you the very best of it.

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And the comment from the brother that Pam let her appearance go being evidence of abuse is deplorable.
He's not a tactful man, Maikai. FWIW, I balked a bit at his phrasing. But it was an interesting observation.
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  #240  
Old 05-10-2012, 02:34 AM
Tadpole12 Tadpole12 is offline
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P1:
http://www.readthespirit.com/explore...msey-tale.html

Spiritual truths behind the media's JonBener tale
Monday, April 9, 2012

"the Ramseys truly were innocents trapped in a tale like Hitchcock’s “Wrong Man.”




P2:
http://www.readthespirit.com/explore...ing-faith.html

John Ramsey on surviving JonBenet tradgedy & finding faith
Wednesday, April 11, 2012

"JOHN: There’s still a bit of a cloud that I don’t think will ever go away—even if the killer is caught and convicted and imprisoned. There always will be an element of people who believe we’re guilty. The Bible talks about dealing with people like that who are fools and says we should just steer clear of them. That’s what I try to do. But it’s there sometimes. Just the other day, I remember looking into the face of a stranger I encountered and thinking: What does this person think of me? Are they coming with suspicion? I remember from marketing, years ago, that companies can do product surveys even on great products and they will get down to where maybe 3 percent of respondents still say that product is junk. The truth is: That’s as good as it gets. The haters are always out there."
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  #241  
Old 05-10-2012, 06:09 AM
UKGuy UKGuy is offline
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P1:
http://www.readthespirit.com/explore...msey-tale.html

Spiritual truths behind the media's JonBener tale
Monday, April 9, 2012

"the Ramseys truly were innocents trapped in a tale like Hitchcock’s “Wrong Man.”

The Wrong Man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



P2:
http://www.readthespirit.com/explore...ing-faith.html

John Ramsey on surviving JonBenet tradgedy & finding faith
Wednesday, April 11, 2012

"JOHN: There’s still a bit of a cloud that I don’t think will ever go away—even if the killer is caught and convicted and imprisoned. There always will be an element of people who believe we’re guilty. The Bible talks about dealing with people like that who are fools and says we should just steer clear of them. That’s what I try to do. But it’s there sometimes. Just the other day, I remember looking into the face of a stranger I encountered and thinking: What does this person think of me? Are they coming with suspicion? I remember from marketing, years ago, that companies can do product surveys even on great products and they will get down to where maybe 3 percent of respondents still say that product is junk. The truth is: That’s as good as it gets. The haters are always out there."
Tadpole12,
Looks to me as if JR is hiding behind the bible and market research statistics. Do not politicians employ the same methods, e.g. fundamental this and market that, whilst accepting campaign donations from whoever?


Quote:
The Bible talks about dealing with people like that who are fools and says we should just steer clear of them. That’s what I try to do.
Also looks to me as if this religion thing with JR is one big smokescreen, since the bible was created by Greeks translating from aramaic well over 2000 years ago, with all the usual mistakes and errors that you might expect occurring. It was later updated by the catholic church, to include only authorised gospels, then further revised as the King James version. What relevance can it have with the death of JonBenet?

I wonder if JR quotes from the bible in his married life? Or does he just trot out the bible when in interview mode? As he states he obviously views us as fools!


.
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  #242  
Old 05-10-2012, 07:40 AM
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Tadpole12,
Looks to me as if JR is hiding behind the bible and market research statistics. Do not politicians employ the same methods, e.g. fundamental this and market that, whilst accepting campaign donations from whoever?



Also looks to me as if this religion thing with JR is one big smokescreen, since the bible was created by Greeks translating from aramaic well over 2000 years ago, with all the usual mistakes and errors that you might expect occurring. It was later updated by the catholic church, to include only authorised gospels, then further revised as the King James version. What relevance can it have with the death of JonBenet?

I wonder if JR quotes from the bible in his married life? Or does he just trot out the bible when in interview mode? As he states he obviously views us as fools!


.
An astonishing element of JR's recent book is that he has two anecdotes involving homeless men in which he says he can't understand how they can go on living without a home, without teeth, with diseased and broken bodies, etc... He explicitly states that the fact that THEY can go on living inspires HIM who has so much more than they do.

This emphasis on appearances is striking. If you had lost your first daughter in a car accident, your second daughter in a brutal sexual murder, and your wife to ovarian cancer, I don't believe you would look at a homeless person and think their life was significantly "worse" than yours -- unless you focus only on externals.

True suffering creates a brotherhood of man where we know that to look upon the surface is to at best see a reflection of ourselves, and be confronted by our own prejudices. JR is still obsessed with surfaces, with marketing, with fake religiosity (which I'm sure he himself believes). He was always an "appearances" guy.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:58 AM
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Tadpole12,
Looks to me as if JR is hiding behind the bible and market research statistics.....I wonder if JR quotes from the bible in his married life? Or does he just trot out the bible when in interview mode? As he states he obviously views us as fools!


.
He sounds like a con man, errrr, a marketing genius to me UK.
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  #244  
Old 05-10-2012, 11:47 AM
eileenhawkeye eileenhawkeye is offline
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John was on the 700 Club today. Watch it here: http://www.cbn.com/media/player/inde...00clubepisodes

His segment starts around 25:25

The guy who interviews him is the same guy who interview John and Patsy for their 2000 interview on the 700 Club.
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  #245  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:15 PM
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"if you could handle your problems I can handle mine" -- JR referring to what a woman told him, but using his own words. Who refers to their daughter's death as a "problem" -- well it's a "problem" if you killed her and you need to convince others of your innocence.

"death became a sorrow and a relief" -- JR referring to Patsy's death in identical terms to what he supposedly felt upon finding JB's body in the wine-cellar.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:04 PM
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He sounds like a con man, errrr, a marketing genius to me UK.
BOESP,
I agree, JR is pretty transparent, but his arrogance, probably generated by thinking he got away with it, makes him think any rationale he dreams up must be gold plated.



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Old 05-10-2012, 07:11 PM
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An astonishing element of JR's recent book is that he has two anecdotes involving homeless men in which he says he can't understand how they can go on living without a home, without teeth, with diseased and broken bodies, etc... He explicitly states that the fact that THEY can go on living inspires HIM who has so much more than they do.

This emphasis on appearances is striking. If you had lost your first daughter in a car accident, your second daughter in a brutal sexual murder, and your wife to ovarian cancer, I don't believe you would look at a homeless person and think their life was significantly "worse" than yours -- unless you focus only on externals.

True suffering creates a brotherhood of man where we know that to look upon the surface is to at best see a reflection of ourselves, and be confronted by our own prejudices. JR is still obsessed with surfaces, with marketing, with fake religiosity (which I'm sure he himself believes). He was always an "appearances" guy.
sandover,
Quote:
True suffering creates a brotherhood of man where we know that to look upon the surface is to at best see a reflection of ourselves, and be confronted by our own prejudices. JR is still obsessed with surfaces, with marketing, with fake religiosity (which I'm sure he himself believes). He was always an "appearances" guy.
Good points, and if he does believe then he must be in a bad place. You are spot on about him being an appearances guy, his religion is just a fig leaf. I wonder what Burke thinks, does daddy get the bible out when he visits?

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Old 05-10-2012, 08:23 PM
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BOESP,
I agree, JR is pretty transparent, but his arrogance, probably generated by thinking he got away with it, makes him think any rationale he dreams up must be gold plated.



.

Well, I know a lot of lay people who think he's guilty and I know a few professionals who think he's guilty.

With Patsy dead, I can't see this case leading anywhere. I suppose John could be charged but the cross-finger-pointing defense would still apply.

I haven't quite figured out why he picked this time to publish yet another book. I haven't read it and don't plan to. But I suspect there was method to his madness.
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  #249  
Old 05-11-2012, 04:58 AM
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Well, I know a lot of lay people who think he's guilty and I know a few professionals who think he's guilty.

With Patsy dead, I can't see this case leading anywhere. I suppose John could be charged but the cross-finger-pointing defense would still apply.

I haven't quite figured out why he picked this time to publish yet another book. I haven't read it and don't plan to. But I suspect there was method to his madness.
BOESP,
Quote:
With Patsy dead, I can't see this case leading anywhere.
Sure, but that might not prevent the truth from seeping out. In this case as in watergate, its the details about the coverup that could be the route to who did it? JR cannot stop this, once he passes on, I'll bet you all sorts of folks come out of the woodwork with claims about stuff.

Quote:
I haven't quite figured out why he picked this time to publish yet another book. I haven't read it and don't plan to. But I suspect there was method to his madness.
Its patently a PR job, it roughly coincided with his latest marriage, coincidental, I think not. Nothing on Burke though, you notice that, do we get a glowing biography of Burks achievements, how he has prospered despite a tradgedy in his life?

So JR's omissions are just as telling as what he includes. There is the outside possibility that it was BDI, and this is JR telling us via bible speak, that he has reconciled the circumstances he found himself in?
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  #250  
Old 05-11-2012, 01:52 PM
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BOESP,

Sure, but that might not prevent the truth from seeping out. In this case as in watergate, its the details about the coverup that could be the route to who did it? JR cannot stop this, once he passes on, I'll bet you all sorts of folks come out of the woodwork with claims about stuff.


Its patently a PR job, it roughly coincided with his latest marriage, coincidental, I think not. Nothing on Burke though, you notice that, do we get a glowing biography of Burks achievements, how he has prospered despite a tradgedy in his life?

So JR's omissions are just as telling as what he includes. There is the outside possibility that it was BDI, and this is JR telling us via bible speak, that he has reconciled the circumstances he found himself in?
The lack of info about Burke is striking, in both the book and interviews. Could this point to BDI or possibly "Burke suspects his parents so I have to be very careful in what I say about him" perhaps?
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