17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[tambo]

I'm trying to figure out why the marks are on the top of his head, that doesn't make sense to me....he would have had to have had his head tilted backwards in a very weird position. If those were open gashes there would be blood everywhere.

My son got knocked down on cement stairs in junior high and hit his head, the actual open injury was the size of a pencil tip, and there was blood everywhere all the kids were screaming and thought he was going to die...The doc cleaned up (with I might add, that brown liquid antiseptic they use) and sent us on our way..I might add, it bleed for a long time at least 45 minutes...

I think head wounds bleed alot.

jmo and all that jazz

[Emeralgem]

Originally Posted by Horace Finklestein

Why would that matter? There's no evidence of any wrongdoing or influence being used to free GZ.

I'm going to have to respectfully agree to disagree.. I do see evidence of wrongdoing from LE concerning what happened that night...JMHO

[TonyGatto]

Originally Posted by gracielee

IMO, GZ's *story* has remained constant where as the information about TM has been continually changing, from the time he left the apartment, who was home at the time, his years old photos, his suspension/s from school, etc. Why is it we have to dig and dig to discover what are true facts??

Here even Mr. Zimmerman acknowledges that there is some confusion. He told an Orlando news station that George was reaching for his cellphone when Trayvon punched him. But, in a later interview with The New York Times, he said that he was unsure whether his son made that movement and that he might have conflated news media reports with what he thought his son may have told him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...ewanted=5&_r=1

[GrandmaTo4]

Originally Posted by Velouria

I support the Zimmermans' right to remain silent - at least until they can manage to get their stories straight.

Gee, it's too bad you didn't give them that advice several days ago. Fortunately for justice, the damage has already been done!

imho

[AngelWings444]

Originally Posted by mikeysmommom

from that link

One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Martin on top, pounding him, and the witness was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.
Zimmerman then shot Martin once in the chest from very close range, authorities said, according to the Sentinel.

It does not say if they fought over the gun or not.It does say he was shot in the chest,which IMO could very well happen if a gun is sandwiched between two men.

Trying to catch up here, was caught up last night.

But, if we are to believe Trayvon was on TOP of Zimmerman, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon at a "very close range", Zimmerman would have blood spatter ALL over his clothes and body.

JMO

[gxm]

Originally Posted by mercuriod

Yes, actually quite a few here still doubt that it was Trayvon wailing for help. Read back to Saturday and yesterday's posts there a still quite a few still insisting that it is Zimmerman and the experts are mistaken, imo, jmo and all that jazz.

IMO, when this case goes to trial we'll have one set of experts testify for the prosecution that it wasn't GZ and one set of experts testify for the defense saying it was.

IMO, it is quite likely that they were both screaming.

JMO, OMO, and

[mikeysmommom]

Originally Posted by rotterdam

He probably did not even know yet that his son was dead. Note it says three cops and not even somebody from the S.A office. They already made up their mind the night before so why even bother with an re enactment.

In many crimes the re enactment is not done the same day.It was very dark,GZ was hurt might have even been woozy headed. I see nothing nefarious is waiting til daylight.As far as the dad being there ,he was nearby not in the direct area.As a parent I probably would go myself to get an understanding of what happened.JMO .

[GrandmaTo4]

Originally Posted by Beyond Belief

Well, do we believe now that GZ has injuries?

Oh sure. He has a couple of "welts" on the top-back of his head from having Trayvon continuously slam his head into concrete for almost a full minute.

Pfffffft

imho

[mikeysmommom]

Originally Posted by GrandmaTo4

Gee, it's too bad you didn't give them that advice several days ago. Fortunately for justice, the damage has already been done!

imho

Not IMO.They gave their opinions, they were not there.IIRC The Anthony family said a whole lot and most never made it into the courtroom.

[GrandmaTo4]

Originally Posted by lillygator

Unfortunately, I think people are going to believe what they want to believe.


Does anyone really think a fair jury can be found?

<modsnip>

Yes, I believe anyone can receive a fair trial. How many people do you think follow all the details the WebSleuthers do?

imo

[tlcya]

He told an Orlando news station that George was reaching for his cellphone when Trayvon punched him. But, in a later interview with The New York Times, he said that he was unsure whether his son made that movement and that he might have conflated news media reports with what he thought his son may have told him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...ewanted=5&_r=2

Definition of CONFLATE. transitive verb. 1. a : to bring together : fuse b : confuse. 2. : to combine (as two readings of a text) into a composite whole

Actually, this is as close as anyone has come to articulating how I think this may have gone.

TM finally stops running and trying to evade the stranger following him and confronts GZ. GZ reaches for his cell. TM sees GZ has a gun, holstered but a gun nonetheless. TM freaks out, and in reasonable fear for his life, throws a punch or a shove and tries to get away from the strange gun carrying stalker. GZ has now been assaulted by this suspicious looking A**hole and this one, is NOT getting away, now he feels justified in detaining and holding TM til the already dispatched units arrive. Struggle then ensues, tragic shooting follows.

I am very curious as to why RZ is backpedalling on this version of events. It actually makes a lot of sense if it happened that way.

Perhaps because that would show TM in a light of being the one who was "standing his ground"

Just some thoughts.

[Peliman]

Originally Posted by tlcox

I don't know who to believe about what in GZ's camp to be honest. GZ's father was apparently present for the big "reenactment" so I must assume that the info he relays was received from GZ or gleaned from watching that reenactment. I am not saying it is truth. I am simply suggesting that all those (myself included) who were so hotly debating whether GZ continued to follow after being told "we don't need you to do that" by the dispatcher do so for no reason.

I was pointing out that GZ's family and supporters apparently aren't even debating this point, they seem to admit yes, he did continue to follow.

My hiney pulling comments referred specifically to his comments about Pres. Obama and hate speech. I found that a bit incredible based upon the statement I heard the President make.

I think eventually this will all go to a trial and a jury will decide. I also think it will be a knock down drag out courtroom legal brawl as the majority of evidence is hearsay and won't be heard.

[Peliman]

Originally Posted by tlcox

He told an Orlando news station that George was reaching for his cellphone when Trayvon punched him. But, in a later interview with The New York Times, he said that he was unsure whether his son made that movement and that he might have conflated news media reports with what he thought his son may have told him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...ewanted=5&_r=2

Definition of CONFLATE. transitive verb. 1. a : to bring together : fuse b : confuse. 2. : to combine (as two readings of a text) into a composite whole

Actually, this is as close as anyone has come to articulating how I think this may have gone.

TM finally stops running and trying to evade the stranger following him and confronts GZ. GZ reaches for his cell. TM sees GZ has a gun, holstered but a gun nonetheless. TM freaks out, and in reasonable fear for his life, throws a punch or a shove and tries to get away from the strange gun carrying stalker. GZ has now been assaulted by this suspicious looking A**hole and this one, is NOT getting away, now he feels justified in detaining and holding TM til the already dispatched units arrive. Struggle then ensues, tragic shooting follows.

I am very curious as to why RZ is backpedalling on this version of events. It actually makes a lot of sense if it happened that way.

Perhaps because that would show TM in a light of being the one who was "standing his ground"

Just some thoughts.

Very possible that's just what occurred.

[rotterdam]

Originally Posted by mikeysmommom

IF GZ is not arrested then he is not liable so I do not think TM family would be able to sue him or them.JMO

Nope, he would have complete immunity. The HOA could not sue him either. Actually, I believe GZ could sue Tray's family since Tray was a minor, for his injuries and PTSD if he wanted too. Although I do not expect that. He is unpopular enough already.

[Horace Finklestein]

Originally Posted by Emeralgem

I'm going to have to respectfully agree to disagree.. I do see evidence of wrongdoing from LE concerning what happened that night...JMHO

What evidence is there? Just because it didn't go the way some people think it should have is not evidence of wrongdoing. Can you point to any evidence of corruption?

[mikeysmommom]

Originally Posted by AngelWings444

Trying to catch up here, was caught up last night.

But, if we are to believe Trayvon was on TOP of Zimmerman, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon at a "very close range", Zimmerman would have blood spatter ALL over his clothes and body.

JMO

It really depends on where the bullet went in how much blood was there. I still wonder if they bagged GM shirt and jacket at the scene not to contaminate them.He might of had a shirt and jacket in his truck.If he had blood all over him would they want that all over the patrol car?

[belle3]

Originally Posted by tambo

I'm trying to figure out why the marks are on the top of his head, that doesn't make sense to me....he would have had to have had his head tilted backwards in a very weird position. If those were open gashes there would be blood everywhere.

My son got knocked down on cement stairs in junior high and hit his head, the actual open injury was the size of a pencil tip, and there was blood everywhere all the kids were screaming and thought he was going to die...The doc cleaned up (with I might add, that brown liquid antiseptic they use) and sent us on our way..I might add, it bleed for a long time at least 45 minutes...

I think head wounds bleed alot.

jmo and all that jazz

I noticed that too. The bump on his head seems to be more towards the top of his head. Almost like he ran into something with his head. If he was bashing his head into the concrete i would expect the gashes to be more towards the back of the head. IDK. I guess anything is possible

[gxm]

Originally Posted by GrandmaTo4

Oh sure. He has a couple of "welts" on the top-back of his head from having Trayvon continuously slam his head into concrete for almost a full minute.

Pfffffft

imho

When I was attacked and had my head repeatedly slammed into a tile floor, there was no visible evidence to the appearance of my skull/scalp. I could feel the lumps, and they hurt, but they weren't visible. All of the visible damage was to the left side (and front) of my face where I had been repeatedly punched.

[katydid23]

Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv

I have my doubts those injuries were caused by Trayvon..I believe he might have done it to himself to give him the stance of fear?

The funeral director saw nothing on Trayvon to suggest he'd been in a fight..so, I do have my suspicious that those injuries might be self inflicted..He appears to be that kind a guy...

There were eyewitnesses on the scene seconds after the gunshot. How was he able to put gashes on the back of his head at that point?

[gxm]

Originally Posted by belle3

I noticed that too. The bump on his head seems to be more towards the top of his head. Almost like he ran into something with his head. If he was bashing his head into the concrete i would expect the gashes to be more towards the back of the head. IDK. I guess anything is possible

Interesting. IMO, that seems to support GZ's claim that he was initially attacked from behind.

[thefragile7393]

I think many of us are not surprised that Z has some injuries....I personally was waffling between a big struggle up to nothing at all. So he has some injuries. And......? It still does not support either direction's story IMO. It can still go either way. It's just another piece, just like the voice analysis is another piece. Until more comes out, we are still back where we were before.

I will say that, so far, it does not support Z's camp's story of the extent of his injuries IMO. Like I said, it can still go either way.

[daisy7]

SANFORD, Fla. — Once again, a river of protest raged through Sanford this weekend to demand justice in the name of an unarmed black teenager shot dead. It gathered strength in front of the historic Crooms Academy, the first high school for black students in Seminole County; surged through the streets; and formed a flood of grief and outrage just outside the Sanford Police Department.

Once again, thousands chanted the name of Trayvon Martin, 17, the youth killed with one bullet while returning to a home in a gated community where he was a guest. Once again, they cried for the arrest of George Zimmerman, 28, the neighborhood watch coordinator who has claimed self-defense under a Florida law with the assertive name Stand Your Ground.

With five weeks’ passage, the fateful encounter between a black youth who wanted to go to college and a Hispanic man who wanted to be a judge has polarized the nation.

(snip)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...WT.mc_ev=click

[belle3]

Originally Posted by gxm

Interesting. IMO, that seems to support GZ's claim that he was initially attacked from behind.

How? It could support any host of theories.

[mikeysmommom]

Originally Posted by GrandmaTo4

<modsnip>

Yes, I believe anyone can receive a fair trial. How many people do you think follow all the details the WebSleuthers do?

imo

If it gets to a trial,How can it possible be fair? I am sure just about everyone in FL is aware of this case.It is not everyday towns get thousands of people bussed into town.< mod snip> because they still have not arrested GZ. IMO Finding 12 people with no bias would be near impossible JMO.

[gxm]

Originally Posted by tlcox

He told an Orlando news station that George was reaching for his cellphone when Trayvon punched him. But, in a later interview with The New York Times, he said that he was unsure whether his son made that movement and that he might have conflated news media reports with what he thought his son may have told him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...ewanted=5&_r=2

Definition of CONFLATE. transitive verb. 1. a : to bring together : fuse b : confuse. 2. : to combine (as two readings of a text) into a composite whole

Actually, this is as close as anyone has come to articulating how I think this may have gone.

TM finally stops running and trying to evade the stranger following him and confronts GZ. GZ reaches for his cell. TM sees GZ has a gun, holstered but a gun nonetheless. TM freaks out, and in reasonable fear for his life, throws a punch or a shove and tries to get away from the strange gun carrying stalker. GZ has now been assaulted by this suspicious looking A**hole and this one, is NOT getting away, now he feels justified in detaining and holding TM til the already dispatched units arrive. Struggle then ensues, tragic shooting follows.

I am very curious as to why RZ is backpedalling on this version of events. It actually makes a lot of sense if it happened that way.

Perhaps because that would show TM in a light of being the one who was "standing his ground"

Just some thoughts.

RZ was not there. IMO, nothing that he says about the confrontation that led to TM's death will be admissible at trial.

JMO, OMO, and