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  #651  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by francie View Post
A victim of what?

Assault - possibly justifying his use of deadly force.
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  #652  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:21 PM
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Hopefully someone remembers or can point me to the spot to find it, but, where was the Arizona Tea and Skittles found on Trayvon? Were they in his pocket of the hoodie he was wearing? I have a theory about the "broken nose" that Zimmerman supposedly suffered.

Also, most hoodies have the pocket in the front center near the waist, yes?

TIA
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  #653  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:22 PM
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Now, the city will pay an outside agency to look into how Lee handled the teen's death.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...t-guilt/nMggT/
  #654  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
Hopefully someone remembers or can point me to the spot to find it, but, where was the Arizona Tea and Skittles found on Trayvon? Were they in his pocket of the hoodie he was wearing? I have a theory about the "broken nose" that Zimmerman supposedly suffered.

Also, most hoodies have the pocket in the front center near the waist, yes?

TIA
I believe I read the items were in TM's pockets, I'll try to find.
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  #655  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:24 PM
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Re-posting the GZ Head Boo-Boo info

ABC News ...Video April 20
Zimmerman Injuries Seen in Exclusive Photo
~Video shows IPhone time stamp info
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/zimm...death-16178849


Related article
ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerman
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...hooting/nMdbw/
Quote:
Sources tell ABC News that investigators have seen the photograph and are aware of the photographer’s story.

The person who took the photograph told ABC News he heard Martin and Zimmerman fighting before the shooting and that after Martin was killed, Zimmerman asked the photographer to call Zimmerman’s wife, allegedly blurting out, “Man, just tell her I shot someone.”

GPS and other data embedded in the photo shows it was taken at the scene with an iPhone just three minutes after the shooting, according to ABC News.


Then we have other commentary from GZ 'constituents'

April 20
Quote:
First of all, to you, Mr. Taaffe, do you believe it helped George Zimmerman to take the stand today?

TAAFFE: Absolutely. George is being George. Nancy, a couple weeks ago you wanted to see blood on a shirt. Now you have blood on the head. So, America, you have your blood. I`m also going to share with you this, that was a photo of George Zimmerman, and I know who the neighbor was that took it. And he came forward only to support George Zimmerman. And more of our neighbors are coming out --

GRACE: So, I`m taking it to believe --

TAAFFE: Are coming out to support him. They are going to support him.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../20/ng.01.html


March 27
Quote:
Quote:
JOE OLIVER, FRIEND OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: About his injuries? About his broken nose and about the gashes on the back of his head?

GRACE: Yes.

OLIVER: That they happened. We are efforting, rather, a picture that was taken by one of the police investigators on the scene on an iPhone before George was cleaned up to show the severity of the beating.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../27/ng.01.html


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  #656  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
By the same token... after reading many vile and disgusting comments posted after articles on MSM links such as CNN, I have no doubt whatsoever that Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin are also receiving much hate mail and possibly threats as well. That knife cuts both ways. It's not right in EITHER case. However, Zimmerman's family has more to gain by claiming such threats. Sympathy, extra protection, etc...

JMO
Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin deserve just as much sympathy and protection from the nut jobs out there as the Zimmerman family does. I don't believe either family gains anything by being threatened. JMO.
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  #657  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
While reading through the Neighborhood Watch Handbook the other day I noticed some key words/phrases that are in the non-emergancy call between Zimmerman and the dispatcher. It struck me as odd that Zimmerman would use those key words/phrases as if he had paid close attention to the training class that was given at the condo complex and/or he had paid very close attention to the handbook when it came to what qualifies as a reason to notify LE. Below I have listed first the quoted portion of Zimmerman's conversation with the dispatcher followed by the quote from the handbook.

"This guy looks like he is up to no good or he's on drugs or something....." ~ Behaving strangely. Possibly on drugs or illegal activity.

"It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about......" ~ Gathering (loitering) for an extended or unusual period of time. Possible burglary, arson, or drug dealing.

"He's got his hands in his waistband......." and "He's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is......" ~ With any sort of weapon(s). Possibly planning any number of crimes. and Carrying, concealing or transporting anything unusual. Possible burglar carrying stolen property.

"He's running......" and "He ran......" ~ Running, especially if carrying something of
value. Possible suspect fleeing scene of crime.


Now, if Zimmerman knew to report those specific things to get the SPD to the complex quickly then how did he not know to NOT follow Trayvon (or any other "suspicious" person) since that is also clearly stated in the Neighborhood Watch Handbook and was covered during the training class?!? I truly am starting to believe that Zimmerman fully intended to force Trayvon to stop where he was at all costs, even if it meant shooting him. If that is the case then I don't see how in the world SYG can be used for Zimmerman's benefit.

MOO

Forgot the links:
City of Sanford website with link to the Neighborhood Watch Handbook
http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

Link to the non-emergancy call that night between Zimmerman and the dispatcher
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/video...Trayvon-Martin
I don't find it odd that he was looking for the behaviors listed in the handbook. And, GZ's story has been that he was looking for an address, not following TM with the intent of detaining him. IMO, he should have stayed in his car but I don't think the prosecution will be able to convincingly claim that GZ left his car with the intent to shoot TM. IMO, so far, the evidence is just not there.

JMO, OMO, and
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  #658  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
While reading through the Neighborhood Watch Handbook the other day I noticed some key words/phrases that are in the non-emergancy call between Zimmerman and the dispatcher. It struck me as odd that Zimmerman would use those key words/phrases as if he had paid close attention to the training class that was given at the condo complex and/or he had paid very close attention to the handbook when it came to what qualifies as a reason to notify LE. Below I have listed first the quoted portion of Zimmerman's conversation with the dispatcher followed by the quote from the handbook.

"This guy looks like he is up to no good or he's on drugs or something....." ~ Behaving strangely. Possibly on drugs or illegal activity.

"It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about......" ~ Gathering (loitering) for an extended or unusual period of time. Possible burglary, arson, or drug dealing.

"He's got his hands in his waistband......." and "He's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is......" ~ With any sort of weapon(s). Possibly planning any number of crimes. and Carrying, concealing or transporting anything unusual. Possible burglar carrying stolen property.

"He's running......" and "He ran......" ~ Running, especially if carrying something of
value. Possible suspect fleeing scene of crime.


Now, if Zimmerman knew to report those specific things to get the SPD to the complex quickly then how did he not know to NOT follow Trayvon (or any other "suspicious" person) since that is also clearly stated in the Neighborhood Watch Handbook and was covered during the training class?!? I truly am starting to believe that Zimmerman fully intended to force Trayvon to stop where he was at all costs, even if it meant shooting him. If that is the case then I don't see how in the world SYG can be used for Zimmerman's benefit.

MOO

Forgot the links:
City of Sanford website with link to the Neighborhood Watch Handbook
http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

Link to the non-emergancy call that night between Zimmerman and the dispatcher
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/video...Trayvon-Martin
This needs repeating....excellent post! thanks for putting all of that together...geez, makes you wonder if he was carrying notes with him to remind him what to say....did anyone ever find out if LE issued a search warrant for his truck?
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  #659  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
By the same token... after reading many vile and disgusting comments posted after articles on MSM links such as CNN, I have no doubt whatsoever that Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin are also receiving much hate mail and possibly threats as well. That knife cuts both ways. It's not right in EITHER case. However, Zimmerman's family has more to gain by claiming such threats. Sympathy, extra protection, etc...

JMO
Quote:
Originally Posted by RANCH View Post
Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin deserve just as much sympathy and protection from the nut jobs out there as the Zimmerman family does. I don't believe either family gains anything by being threatened. JMO.
I said, "by CLAIMING such threats" - not "by being threatened". Please don't parse my words.

BTW... I haven't seen any such claims by Trayvon's parents. Have you?
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  #660  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by francie View Post
If I were getting death threats I'd be calling the cops, post haste! It's absurd to think that they got threats and did nothing, especially since they seem to want sympathy from these calls. JUST MY OPINION!!

:moo
I agree. GZ called the police 46 times. In a majority of the calls, he was in no direct danger, and neither was anyone else. Why is he not calling LE all of a sudden?

Nobody's really threatening him, except the Black Panther Party, and the few nutjobs on social media who have nothing better to do...

I wouldn't consider the threats online viable, but if someone contacted the family directly, that's different...

JMO MOO IMO
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AFTER A TRIAL, OF COURSE

Last edited by HiHater; 04-26-2012 at 05:37 PM. Reason: removed inaccurate time frame.
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  #661  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elley Mae View Post
I believe I read the items were in TM's pockets, I'll try to find.
Yes, I believe I read that, too.
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  #662  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gxm View Post
I don't find it odd that he was looking for the behaviors listed in the handbook. And, GZ's story has been that he was looking for an address, not following TM with the intent of detaining him. IMO, he should have stayed in his car but I don't think the prosecution will be able to convincingly claim that GZ left his car with the intent to shoot TM. IMO, so far, the evidence is just not there.

JMO, OMO, and
Does the prosecution need to prove intent?
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#ConvictZimmerman

AFTER A TRIAL, OF COURSE
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  #663  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHater View Post
I agree. GZ called the police 46 times in 14 months. In a majority of the calls, he was in no direct danger, and neither was anyone else. Why is he not calling LE all of a sudden?

Nobody's really threatening him, except the Black Panther Party, and the few nutjobs on social media who have nothing better to do...

I wouldn't consider the threats online viable, but if someone contacted the family directly, that's different...

JMO MOO IMO
I believe that was 46 times over a period of 5 or 6 years. Possibily once he moved there but not in a year. jmo
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  #664  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
I believe that was 46 times over a period of 5 or 6 years. Possibily once he moved there but not in a year. jmo
You're right...my bad. Going to fix original post.
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#ConvictZimmerman

AFTER A TRIAL, OF COURSE
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  #665  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
Yes, I believe I read that, too.
I can't find it
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  #666  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHater View Post
Does the prosecution need to prove intent?
If Zimmerman plans to pursue SYG, won't it be up to him to prove that he was going to look for the address because the burden shifts to the defense if I'm understanding correctly?



~Jmo~
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  #667  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:38 PM
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It's the prosecution's burden to prove their case.

It is my opinion, they are gonna have a really hard time proving 2nd degree murder to 12 jurors without a reasonable doubt.

The investigator already said, on the stand, they don't have evidence of certain things they are claiming.

JMO
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  #668  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:40 PM
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Wow, when did I manage to reach 3000 posts? I let that little milestone slip right past me!! 3000 posts in 8 years...LOL! I wonder how many I had when I started posting on Trayvon's case? LOL.
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  #669  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimberlyd125 View Post
It's the prosecution's burden to prove their case.

It is my opinion, they are gonna have a really hard time proving 2nd degree murder to 12 juries without a reasonable doubt.

The investigator already said, on the stand, they don't have evidence of certain things they are claiming.

JMO
I don't think we know half of the evidence the Prosecutors have. They have to have something to be able to charge him with 2nd Degree Murder.

I have to have faith that Justice will be served for Trayvon!
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  #670  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
The problem is that it states "after receiving multiple calls that there was a subject laying in the grass". When I reviewed the 911 calls just about every single one stated things like "in my backyard", "right behind me" etc. Thus the addresses being used are based on addresses given to the 911 dispatchers.

Thus it is not LE stating that this was where TM was. SFD was told to "stage" at one address.

As well if my calculations are correct we have not heard from 2 witnesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova View Post
Thank you for your all your hard work on locating the altercation and TM's body.

Since there were four or more residences per building, do you think it's possible that residents were in the habit of referring to the green behind the entire building as "my backyard" or "behind my house"? Do we know whether the green areas were commonly held or whether each unit "owned" the grass directly behind it?

Each resident, of course, would give his or her own address to the dispatcher and the dispatcher would repeat the address given without being able to see the precise location of the body.

So, given what we know now, isn't it possible that TM's body was lying pretty much anywhere from the point where the sidewalks intersected down to the opposite end of the adjacent buildings?

I agree with you that the exact location is very important: the farther TM was from the cross of the "T", the less likely GZ's story becomes. And I assume that the first responders will be able to locate the body more precisely than the dispatchers who merely repeated what they were told.
I don't know anything more than what they tell us as to the location of TM's body. To me, I don't see how it can get more clear than what the SPD report says:



And what the SFD dispatcher says that the body is "lying in the grass in the back yard of 2831 Retreat View Circle".

The SPD report narrative of Officer Smith also adds considerable reason to believe the location shown below is correct when he tells us two other things in the above narrative.

(1) He parked his squad car in front of 2821 Retreat View Circle

(2) He SAW the body, face down in the grass, as he walked in between the buildings.



Officer Smith was the first responder. It was dark. He could not have seen a body "lying face down" in the grass if the body was not close to the location I have shown as opposed to the other end.
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by grandmaj View Post
Now, the city will pay an outside agency to look into how Lee handled the teen's death.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...t-guilt/nMggT/
There is so much snark I could write about that but I'm curling my fingers and holding back.

Let me just say that it seems the City of Sanford perhaps gave Chief Lee free reign for so long that now they don't know how to display any oversight of the police department. Hence the "outside agency."

JMOO
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:43 PM
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Answered my own question....

(from the law group that I asked Grandmaj about posting the other night in which she said I could).

http://www.husseinandwebber.com/stand_your_ground.html

Thus, under the procedures outlined in Petersen, prosecutorial immunity does not attach under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law by way of mere factual assertion. The issue is raised pre-trial through the filing of a Motion for Declaration of Immunity and/or Dismissal. To obtain such a declaration by the trial court, a hearing is held where the defendant must demonstrate by a preponderance of the evidence his or her qualifications for immunity. This essentially reverses the burden of proof traditionally at play in a criminal case. The defense presents the evidence, shows that the statutory prerequisites have been met, and requests that the court grant the motion and appropriate relief. If the Motion is granted, the defense then files a Motion to Dismiss, as there is no longer a legal basis to proceed with the prosecution. The Motions for immunity and dismissal are frequently consolidated into a single filing.
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
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I don't think we know half of the evidence the Prosecutors have. They have to have something to be able to charge him with 2nd Degree Murder.

I have to have faith that Justice will be served for Trayvon!
I'm sure we don't.

But, I do believe that investigator's words will be big trouble for the state.

JMO
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:44 PM
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Wow, when did I manage to reach 3000 posts? I let that little milestone slip right past me!! 3000 posts in 8 years...LOL! I wonder how many I had when I started posting on Trayvon's case? LOL.
and
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:45 PM
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I found an article that had a quote from Crump that stated the tea and skittles were in his jacket pocket but I wanted to make sure that there was other proof of it since Crump will not be considered a good source for that information based on some of the opinions I have seen. I have to go take care of some RL things but will continue to search when I get a chance. Thank you to those that have tried to help me find the information.

MOO
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