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Old 03-07-2011, 09:46 AM
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PA Man Murders Twin Brother And Parents

Joseph McAndrew, Jr. aged 23 of Montgomery County was found by police in his driveway covered in blood.

Inside the home his twin brother and his parents were found murdered from lacerations and cuts. A sword was found at the scene.

How very, very sad.



http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...117493828.html
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:10 AM
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Joseph McAndrew, Jr. aged 23 of Montgomery County was found by police in his driveway covered in blood.

Inside the home his twin brother and his parents were found murdered from lacerations and cuts. A sword was found at the scene.

How very, very sad.



http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...117493828.html

This is horrible. Have there been any details released yet as to what caused him to do this? The manner in which he did it is just so full of hatred and rage. I am really interested in knowing WHY.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:39 PM
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Authorities are not yet clear on a motive.

"It's extremely shocking," a family friend told the station. "They're really smart guys."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/07...est=latestnews


snip...with a history of mental illness

http://timesherald.com/articles/2011...2790918350.txt
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:54 PM
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It just doesn't stop...one incredibly shocking crime after another.

Words are failing me when I read these stories. Prayers are all I have left.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:51 PM
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Joe's ms:

http://www.myspace.com/joeshmoidunno

looks like a decent guy, in stark contrast to his mugshot ...
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:58 PM
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When asked what happened McAndrew said exterminated. When asked who did it he said "person named attacker". When asked who the people were that were murdered he replied "person named mother", "person named father", and "person named brother".


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72653420110307


The person who was supposedly renting a room in the house is the one that alerted police. That man came and got his belongings and packed them into a car with Ohio license plates. Gotta wonder how that man feels, and who he is.

So very sad. I have no doubt this young man's family tried to get him help.

What is up with murdering your parent with a samurai sword? We read this all the time. People with a history if mental illness murdering with a samurai sword. My heart aches for this poor family. That's unimaginable.

O/T I found a link to Linked. could almost say positively that it's this young man. I wonder if he ever attended CCP? I know it says he never attended a college, but maybe he went to CCP? It's a few years old. Maybe he suffered more recently?

RIP McAndrew family.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:03 PM
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i'm guessing the man who rented the room in that house was named "craig" and that the mother was yelling to him to call 911.
how did craig escape this massacre? why did he not jump in to help the family defend themselves against the son? would he be physically capable of helping in defense?

"Craig Noce, a tenant at the family’s house, reported hearing commotion in the residence about 6:53 p.m. Saturday, then heard Susan McAndrew yelling “Craig call 9-1-1.” After the sound of breaking and a loud crash, an eerie quiet followed. Noce called for police."
http://timesherald.com/articles/2011...txt?viewmode=2

i don't want to make the tenant feel guilty, however i would have tried to help and overpower the brother, it may have made a difference. then again if craig is older or not physically capable he couldn't have...
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:40 PM
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i'm guessing the man who rented the room in that house was named "craig" and that the mother was yelling to him to call 911.
how did craig escape this massacre? why did he not jump in to help the family defend themselves against the son? would he be physically capable of helping in defense?

"Craig Noce, a tenant at the family’s house, reported hearing commotion in the residence about 6:53 p.m. Saturday, then heard Susan McAndrew yelling “Craig call 9-1-1.” After the sound of breaking and a loud crash, an eerie quiet followed. Noce called for police."
http://timesherald.com/articles/2011...txt?viewmode=2

i don't want to make the tenant feel guilty, however i would have tried to help and overpower the brother, it may have made a difference. then again if craig is older or not physically capable he couldn't have...
I think he did the right thing. No need for there to be another senseless death.

A man swinging a sword in a murderous way is not someone who needs to be approached close up or try to take it away from the one who is swinging it, imo. It is a formidable extremely lethal weapon. Imo, he would have murdered Craig too if he had come into close contact with him.

IMO
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:40 PM
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Swords and mentally ill young men. It does seem to be a oft-seen theme. Twenty-three is a prime age for mental illness onset and the onset often involves grandiosity, violence and rage. Young males have always seemed interested in knives, swords and all things sharp. I think when you put the two together, a tragedy such as this ensues. Bless that young man's heart for trying to help and calling 911. The attacker could have moved on to other victims.

Prayers for this family and yes, for the attacker too. I don't believe he truly knew what he was doing. I'm sure Filly is right about the family trying to get help. It's almost impossible to access right now. Callers are told that harm has to be imminent to access services. By, that time, IMO, it's too late. And the vast majority of mentally ill people are highly decent-looking and acting people--when they are on their appropriate meds.
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:48 PM
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I think he did the right thing. No need for there to be another senseless death.

A man swinging a sword in a murderous way is not someone who needs to be approached close up or try to take it away from the one who is swinging it, imo. It is a formidable extremely lethal weapon. Imo, he would have murdered Craig too if he had come into close contact with him.

IMO
Although I completely and totally agree with you, I think *I* would have tried to do something more... what?, I don't know.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:37 PM
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"Broken Brother"




http://www.philly.com/philly/news/11...cmpid=15585797



A friend of James McAndrew who attended Penn State with him said his friend thoroughly loved and appreciated what his parents had done for him. He said James would often make the more than three hour drive home from Penn State to spend time with his family. ***I personally felt that he was almost over attached to his family and this would potentially hurt his future, BUT given the state of his brother this makes more sense to me now.***.

Just another example of how people just have no flippin idea of what is going on in others lives. You just don't know. It's so immensely sad that mental illness still carries such a stigma. It's also immensely sad that there's not always enough help out there. If there is often people don't know how to obtain it.

Everybody is facing their own personal war out there is how I try and see life. Everyone has their own he*l. Just because they aren't out there yapping about it does not mean it does not exist. I'd be a hypocritical fool if I said I can live by that every single day, but it's a start to know people are suffering.

This is all so tragic .
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:42 PM
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i don't want to make the tenant feel guilty, however i would have tried to help and overpower the brother, it may have made a difference. then again if craig is older or not physically capable he couldn't have...
The difference being another dead person. Unless that guy had a loaded firearm and was prepared to use it correctly I don't think he'd have stood a chance.

They believe from the description of the sword it's a Japanese Tanto sword. Sharp, sharp, sharp. 18 inches long. A mentally ill young man most likely with dellusions.

Chemcopout I think it is human nature that makes us believe/hope/want to help or think we'd want to. That's how my grandfather was murdered by a sawed off shotgun trying to help a woman.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:51 PM
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Swords and mentally ill young men. It does seem to be a oft-seen theme. Twenty-three is a prime age for mental illness onset and the onset often involves grandiosity, violence and rage. Young males have always seemed interested in knives, swords and all things sharp. I think when you put the two together, a tragedy such as this ensues. Bless that young man's heart for trying to help and calling 911. The attacker could have moved on to other victims.

Prayers for this family and yes, for the attacker too. I don't believe he truly knew what he was doing. I'm sure Filly is right about the family trying to get help. It's almost impossible to access right now. Callers are told that harm has to be imminent to access services. By, that time, IMO, it's too late. And the vast majority of mentally ill people are highly decent-looking and acting people--when they are on their appropriate meds.

Per our crackerjack Daily News:



Some other sword slayings:

In November actor Michael Brea murdered his mother with a samurai sword.

In June Stephen Clancy Hill the porn actor allegedly murdered one of his co-workers and injured two others with a "samurai style sword".

July 2008, James Jones of Ridley Township, PA used a "samurai style" sword to to murder his family's dog.

In 2003 in Bensalem, PA Robert Corsaro, Jr. murdered his father with a 3 foot samurai sword. Corsaro who was drug addicted was convicted of manslaughter.



On top of this little paragraph our Daily News put a "For support call the Mental Health Association of Southeastern PA." They included the phone number.

Apparently you can purchase a Tanto sword at gun shows or at Kendo martial arts clubs. Either way they are deadly.
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:15 PM
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The difference being another dead person. Unless that guy had a loaded firearm and was prepared to use it correctly I don't think he'd have stood a chance.

They believe from the description of the sword it's a Japanese Tanto sword. Sharp, sharp, sharp. 18 inches long. A mentally ill young man most likely with dellusions.

Chemcopout I think it is human nature that makes us believe/hope/want to help or think we'd want to. That's how my grandfather was murdered by a sawed off shotgun trying to help a woman.

Filly, I agree 100%. When I was in high school, my father quit going to his weekly bridge games because one of his bridge partners had filed for divorce from her mentally troubled husband, and the estranged husband was making vague threats about getting back at her friends from bridge for "talking her into it." I remember being all 17-year old feisty and telling my father, "Who is he to scare you away from playing bridge? You can't let some bully keep you from your hobbies! It's not fair!!! You should go to that bridge game just to show him!" (Granted, I probably just wanted my dad out of the house so I could sneak out and party, but still...) Anyway, to this day I remember my father telling me, "Crazy and possibly armed is a combo that you never want to get involved with. Never." Now, my father is built like a tank, has past careers in the military and law enforcement, and kept plenty of guns in the house. (And he also always told me, "If someone is trying to break in, kill him while he's still in the yard. And then call me so I can help you drag the body through the window, so it looks like you were in imminent danger. And then call the police.) So he certainly wasn't one to be afraid or to back down in most situations. But I've always, always remembered his advice of "Crazy and weapons? Do not get involved. Period."

I'd like to think that I'd jump in to help. But the few times that I've honestly thought, for a few heart-stopping moments, that I was genuinely in danger (someone trying the doorknob in the middle of the night, husband surprising me in the shower when I didn't hear him come in, etc.), my reaction--every single time--has been to just freeze solid and stop breathing, like I'm hoping the bad guy won't know I'm there, and will just go away. I can't help it--in my mind, I'd be a hero, but in reality, I'm a rabbit, every time. (Of course, it's a different story if I'm angry, because then I will wade right in without a second thought. If heaven forbid I am ever in a situation like this, I just hope that the perpetrator pisses me off by, I don't know, insulting my shoes or something, because that will snap me out of rabbit mode and into redneck woman in a barfight mode in record time.)
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:38 PM
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Now, my father is built like a tank, has past careers in the military and law enforcement, and kept plenty of guns in the house. (And he also always told me, "If someone is trying to break in, kill him while he's still in the yard. And then call me so I can help you drag the body through the window, so it looks like you were in imminent danger. And then call the police.) So he certainly wasn't one to be afraid or to back down in most situations.
Mouse, are you my sister from the same Mister? Twin dad's.Military, Law Enforcement, and if you're going to shoot you better be ready to kill anyone with nary a toe in the door. Oh wait my dad wasn't built big. However my grandpop was. A very big man with a booming voice and a bigger heart. Sadly jumpy kids with sawed off shotguns get shocked when a big man comes to the aid of a lady.

From as long as I can recall I was taught to call 911. You don't help anyone. You call the cops. No doubt that horrific murder which stole a husband and father from his family dictated that.

It really breaks my heart for this family. I wish they could have gotten their son help somehow. Better help. Any help. Mental Health Care is so hard to get.

Oh yeah Miss Redneck lady in a barfight. I wouldn't fight ya.
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:13 PM
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I'm glad the tenant didn't try to save the family because I doubt if he would have been successful. I am however glad that they have an eyewitness that will clinch the deal on a solid conviction. It's easy to say you would have done this if it were you, but in reality how could you approach a frenzied person with a Samaria sword? I'm glad we have a LIVE witness.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:25 PM
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Per our crackerjack Daily News:



Some other sword slayings:

In November actor Michael Brea murdered his mother with a samurai sword.

In June Stephen Clancy Hill the porn actor allegedly murdered one of his co-workers and injured two others with a "samurai style sword".

July 2008, James Jones of Ridley Township, PA used a "samurai style" sword to to murder his family's dog.

In 2003 in Bensalem, PA Robert Corsaro, Jr. murdered his father with a 3 foot samurai sword. Corsaro who was drug addicted was convicted of manslaughter.



On top of this little paragraph our Daily News put a "For support call the Mental Health Association of Southeastern PA." They included the phone number.

Apparently you can purchase a Tanto sword at gun shows or at Kendo martial arts clubs. Either way they are deadly.
You can pretty much purchase a sword of any kind from anywhere. Even Mall stores have them. They are quite popular. I know wives that have bought a special kind of sword for their spouses. Lots of collectors out there who collects different types of swords.

While we do see a sword being used as a murder weapon it is still extremely rare when it comes to the weapon of choice by the perpetrator. Most prefer guns or knives.

IMO
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:34 PM
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I'm glad the tenant didn't try to save the family because I doubt if he would have been successful. I am however glad that they have an eyewitness that will clinch the deal on a solid conviction. It's easy to say you would have done this if it were you, but in reality how could you approach a frenzied person with a Samaria sword? I'm glad we have a LIVE witness.
I totally agree with this.

We all would like to think we would become some type of superhuman hero in times like this but the mind senses extreme danger and is geared more to self preservation.

It would have been foolish for the tenant to rush this deranged man when he had nothing but his own strength to try and overcome him. He had to know one swing of that very sharp sword could leave him mortally wounded or worse.

Imo he did the right thing.

IMO
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:27 AM
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I think he did the right thing. No need for there to be another senseless death.

A man swinging a sword in a murderous way is not someone who needs to be approached close up or try to take it away from the one who is swinging it, imo. It is a formidable extremely lethal weapon. Imo, he would have murdered Craig too if he had come into close contact with him.

IMO
i wasn't saying he did the wrong thing.

what i was saying was if he was physically able to help (rather i was in his shoes) i'd have tried to help. his twin brother showed a lot of defensive wounds. possibly another person could have helped.

on the contrary when one is in a psychotic rage, it may take 8 or more people to hold them down.

it's obvious this was not a premeditated murder. a murderer with logic would take out his twin brother first, as he would present the largest threat. this guy didn't do that. his reasons may be something delusional if he is mentally ill.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:28 AM
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i'm glad the tenant didn't try to save the family because i doubt if he would have been successful. I am however glad that they have an eyewitness that will clinch the deal on a solid conviction. It's easy to say you would have done this if it were you, but in reality how could you approach a frenzied person with a samaria sword? I'm glad we have a live witness.
a tazer.
obviously i doubt "talking him down" would have worked
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:33 AM
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Lots of new information at link including a computer relationship with a girl in Argentina that had broken up.

Joseph McAndrew was worried that his tech saavy brother could hack into his computer. So much so that Joseph did not subscribe to the same internet provider his family did.

A friend of James speaks out about what he knew from James about his brother Joseph. His schizophrenia was delusional more than visual hallucinations.

There could be a problem with an insanity defense. When police arrived at the scene they found all the doors to the house locked and McAndrew in the driveway with the keys to the car. Conclusion being he was about to flee the scene. He refused to sign paperwork at the prison that would allow him to get treatment and a court appointed attorney, but he did ask for one at police interviews.

An envelope was found sealed that said "2011 evidence of drug plan for Joe-Joe"

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pe...117721668.html
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:39 AM
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My guess, Filly, is that he was in and out of reality. From your link upthread:

"....mental illness affects one in four families.

"It's always unexpected and a very unique experience because of the stigma and the uncertainty involved with it," she said. "It's not one-size-fits all. If anything, it's complicated." She said that the rate of violence for people with schizophrenia or mood disorders is 16 percent - 9 percent above the average for the general population - and that family members of those affected by it are at the highest risk.

"There is more emotion in a family relationship and the history that builds up," she said. "If someone starts losing control of their behavior or becomes paranoid, what can be normal family tensions can erupt in to violence."


Those numbers are staggering. I can never forget the awful crime committed in Las Vegas by Harold Montague. He's the man who slashed his disabled sister-in-law and then attacked and beheaded an infant in a stroller in front of his house. He used some sort of an axe purchased at a Renaissance Fair. I specifically remember his wife being shocked that he would commit violence. She left him each day to care for their children.

One can see how our forefathers thought that the devil had invaded a person's soul. We know it's chemical but it's so darned tragic and often challenging to treat.

For anyone interested, I'm reading the most fascinating book right now. It's a well written fictionalized account of the history of psychiatry, psychology and neurology from the mid-1800s up to the 1920s. Lunatic asylums, horrid "cures", millions of false theories, and finally a few breakthroughs. But still so so much work to be done. It's "Human Traces" by Sebastian Faulks. One of the doctors chooses medicine for his life's work for the specific reason that his beloved brother has schizophrenia. They don't have a name for it in the 1870s but that's clearly what it is. When one looks out over the world and considers human misery, mental illness is right up near the top.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:34 PM
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filly, your grandfather was a hero, unfortunately it cost him his life =(
if the roomer had a gun or tazer he may have stood a chance. i'm thinking the young man was past the point in psychosis that he couldn't have been talked down.

mouse, your father is a smart man! =)

the common use of swords and dagger may have some type of almost phallic nature. maybe in some psychological subconcious way these young men are feeling inadequate so they chose a sword as a murder weapon.

in this case, the brother had a successful twin brother, they had grow up together. despite his brother's love and support for him, its possible that joseph felt he would never amount up to his twin brother.

***trigger*** the breaking point seemed to be when joseph's online girlfriend had ended a relationship with him.

http://articles.philly.com/2011-03-1...-mental-issues

"Joseph was also despondent over a recent breakup of an online relationship that he had been conducting with a girl from Argentina, according to the documents."

it seems joseph had put a lot into this relationship, and the break up triggered him. it's horrible he couldn't have gotten psychiatric help before it was too late.
joseph seemed to be growing increasingly paranoid of his own twin brother. he also had withdrawed from social activity, and this type of self isolation can make one's paranoia even worse.

it's sad when such a tragedy has to take place to get a mentally ill person help. it sounds like the family was aware he had problems.

for joseph himself, it's possible he compared himself to his successful brother constantly, and this is what made him grow paranoid, despite the fact his brother supported and loved him.

it's very sad when situations like this happen.

imo, this young man is entitled to an insanity defense, it's obvious he's need mental health help for awhile.

even if he was standing in the driveway with the car keys and all the doors locked, he was covered in blood!

what type of murderer does nothing to cover up their crime and then leaves covered in blood. he was in his own house he could have changed his clothes. he obviously didn't premeditate these crimes. the brother showed defensive wounds as if he were trying to defend the parents as well. a skilled killer would take out the hardest target first, which would have been his twin.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:09 PM
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More mental testing ordered by judge

http://pottsmerc.com/articles/2011/0...0011969039.txt

June 14, 2011

NORRISTOWN A judge has ordered another psychiatric evaluation of the 23-year-old Upper Merion man who previously was considered to be incompetent to address charges he killed three members of his family.

Joseph C. McAndrew Jr. will "undergo an evaluation for competency" sometime after June 20, Montgomery County Judge William R. Carpenter wrote in a court order after prosecutors requested the evaluation. Dr. John O'Brien, a psychiatrist recommended by prosecutors, will conduct the evaluation.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:55 PM
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D.A. to seek death penalty, trial date set for October 5, 2012

http://www.mainlinemedianews.com/art...txt?viewmode=2
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