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  #276  
Old 05-24-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
You understand that report was what was initially told to the ME's office when they arrived at the scene? At that point, Serino (nor anyone else) had not even interrogated GZ yet on what his story was. Serino was probably getting his information from both dispatch and the officer on the scene.
I don't believe that Serino received any information from the dispatcher that said that Zimmerman told him that he was walking his neighborhood watch or that he confronted Trayvon. Neither of those are on the recording. In fact on the recording you can clearly hear that Zimmerman exited a vehicle. So there goes the walking his watch idea. Also at the point in time when Zimmerman confronted Trayvon he was no longer on the phone with the dispatcher, so there goes that one. Serino received this information from somewhere. It apparently did not come from the dispatcher, there were no other witnesses to what occured from beginning to the end, so that leaves Zimmerman to tell the tale.

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Old 05-24-2012, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv View Post
Zen, you taking the words of a liar, there was nothing to show that TM attacked him at all...everything is pointing to GZ and GZ alone..

The state will drive that fact home, had he not left the security of his vehicle, TM would be alive today...that is the first premise the state took into consideration...he never should have left his vehicle as told to not follow...why is everyone not taking that into consideration....everything the state has written the first sentence is, TM death could have been avoided if GZ stayed in his vehicle..

So, you can drive the fact home that it was TM who started this, yet the DNA evidence states otherwise...NO DNA of GZ on TM's hands...so he must have been quite the magician to beat him to a bloody pulp and not get his DNA onto GZ...and this alleged struggle over the gun, no DNA of TM there either..Hmmmmmm GZ is a liar, is my belief.

It's looking more and more like it was GZ who started the entire scenario...
So if NO DNA on TM means he didn't attack him, then I guess no DNA on GZ means he didn't attack TM, right? The reason people are not taking the fact that GZ left his car into consideration is because it was PERFECTLY LEGAL.

As far as GZ lying, YOU have NO proof of that, it is merely speculation, based on SUPPOSED contradictions in his statements, which HAVEN'T been released yet.
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  #278  
Old 05-24-2012, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
I don't believe that Serino received any information from the dispatcher that said that Zimmerman told him that he was walking his neighborhood watch or that he confronted Trayvon. Neither of those are on the recording. In fact on the recording you can clearly hear that Zimmerman exited a vehicle. So there goes the walking his watch idea. Also at the point in time when Zimmerman confronted Trayvon he was no longer on the phone with the dispatcher, so there goes that one. Serino received this information from somewhere. It apparently did not come from the dispatcher, there were no other witnesses to what occured from beginning to the end, so that leaves Zimmerman to tell the tale.

MOO
Read Serino's report starting on page 20. I don't see anywhere in the beginning where he started talking to GZ.
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  #279  
Old 05-24-2012, 02:42 PM
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So then Serino lied to the ME office and allowed that lie to be put onto an official report?
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
So then Serino lied to the ME office and allowed that lie to be put onto an official report?
IDK. Maybe it was an assumption, maybe it was relayed to him by someone else. All I know is in his own report, he doesn't mention that he spoke to GZ about what happened that night and I would think that would be in his report if he did.

It's not like this investigation was by the book from day one.
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  #281  
Old 05-24-2012, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by diesel View Post
If Trayvon had his hand(s) over GZ's mouth and nose while GZ's nose was bleeding, wouldn't DNA be all over his hand(s) including at least one fingernail. And on his sleeve cuffs, too. That pic that was posted of GZ taken with the iPhone, too - wouldn't there be blood smeared all over GZ's face from twisting and turning underneath Trayvon's hand(s)?

JMO
IMO There should be. Also, if someone had their hand over my mouth I'd be biting them. There should be DNA on his hands from saliva, if not blood. I wonder if his hands were even tested for DNA. Also, if TM was using both hands to cover GZ's nose and mouth, how was he hitting him at the same time. Oh yeah, witness #6 now says he isn't sure that TM was actually hitting GZ, let alone in MMA style, and he can't really say who was yelling. IMO I don't know if I can link to Huffington Post, but it's there today and on FOX website yesterday. The lady with the contacts believes that Zimmerman was on top IMO--same sources.
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  #282  
Old 05-24-2012, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv View Post
Zen, you taking the words of a liar, there was nothing to show that TM attacked him at all...everything is pointing to GZ and GZ alone..

The state will drive that fact home, had he not left the security of his vehicle, TM would be alive today...that is the first premise the state took into consideration...he never should have left his vehicle as told to not follow...why is everyone not taking that into consideration....everything the state has written the first sentence is, TM death could have been avoided if GZ stayed in his vehicle..

So, you can drive the fact home that it was TM who started this, yet the DNA evidence states otherwise...NO DNA of GZ on TM's hands...so he must have been quite the magician to beat him to a bloody pulp and not get his DNA onto GZ...and this alleged struggle over the gun, no DNA of TM there either..Hmmmmmm GZ is a liar, is my belief.

It's looking more and more like it was GZ who started the entire scenario...
And, IMO, it's looking more and more like TM did not get in one single blow. IMO It is impossible for TM to attack GZ and there not be any evidence whatsoever that he even touched him. My belief is that GZ got those minor wounds from hiding in a bush to waylay TM. And they are minor.
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  #283  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv View Post
The autopsy report proves GZ isn't being truthful...not anywhere in that report does it state TM has bruises on all his knuckles, just one little bruise on the ring finger of the left hand behind the knuckle proves to me that TM did not beat the crap out of GZ...or TM's predominant hand would have shown he threw punches..that's not the case...

I'm at a loss that folk are trying so hard to make GZ the hero here when in fact he was the aggressor...if he stayed in his vehicle and let LE handle this but he didn't have faith in LE, he didn't believe they would get there in time to 'detain' this suspicous character who he deemed up to no good..he took the law into his own hands and that is why he is facing the charges he faces..GZ tried to use self defense but the state saw he initiated this by not staying in his vehicle, had he, TM would be alive today...TM's death could have been avoided (as the state has that phrase on most documents), CSerino saw it too, he wanted manslaughter charges but Wolfinger caused this uproar by NOT taking the advice of his homicide detective...

People need to have a broad view and call an ace an ace...this is all GZ's fault, he caused the death of an innocent teen who was not in the commission of any crime.

When it comes down to the truth, I believe the evidence and not the word of a proven liar, GZ...
BBM
I'm bringing my reply to this thread because I don't see anything about witness statements in your post.

It may be your opinion that the autopsy "proves" that GZ is a liar but my opinion is that Trayvon could have attacked GZ and not had injuries to both of his hands. So that doesn't prove he's a liar to me.

As for having a broad view, I think that looking at the autopsy and saying that since Trayvon had only a small injury to one hand means GZ was the initial aggressor is taking a narrow view of the evidence. JMO.
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  #284  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by RANCH View Post
BBM
I'm bringing my reply to this thread because I don't see anything about witness statements in your post.

It may be your opinion that the autopsy "proves" that GZ is a liar but my opinion is that Trayvon could have attacked GZ and not had injuries to both of his hands. So that doesn't prove he's a liar to me.

As for having a broad view, I think that looking at the autopsy and saying that since Trayvon had only a small injury to one hand means GZ was the initial aggressor is taking a narrow view of the evidence. JMO.
How would Trayvon have attacked Zimmerman and not end up having injuries to his hands?
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  #285  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
How would Trayvon have attacked Zimmerman and not end up having injuries to his hands?
He did have an injury, albeit a small one. How did he get that one?

It is possible to be in a fight and not get cuts or bruises, especially if the fight wasn't very long or if someone was 'winning' the fight.
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  #286  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
How would Trayvon have attacked Zimmerman and not end up having injuries to his hands?
Trayvon's knuckle was abraded whereas Zimmerman had no injuries in his hands, signifying that only Trayvon was doing the punching and beating.
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  #287  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Lovelymountains View Post
And, IMO, it's looking more and more like TM did not get in one single blow. IMO It is impossible for TM to attack GZ and there not be any evidence whatsoever that he even touched him. My belief is that GZ got those minor wounds from hiding in a bush to waylay TM. And they are minor.
Claiming that there is no evidence that Trayvon even touched Zimmrman makes no sense whatsoever, considering Zimmerman's blood was found on Trayvon's shirt.
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  #288  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
How would Trayvon have attacked Zimmerman and not end up having injuries to his hands?
I think that a blow to GZ's nose would not necessarily leave visible injuries to Trayvons hand. The injuries to the back of GZ's head could be from Trayvon grabbing a hold of his head and slamming it to the ground. That would leave no injuries in my opinion. I'm not trying to convince anyone that I am right or that it's the only possibility, I'm just taking an honest look at the evidence and giving my opinion.
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  #289  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:33 AM
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Trayvon's knuckle was abraded whereas Zimmerman had no injuries in his hands, signifying that only Trayvon was doing the punching and beating.
I don't recall reading the word 'abraded' and the injury wasn't on Trayvon's knuckle. It was below the joint. He could have gotten the tiny laceration from a paper cut for all we know.

Zimmerman didn't need to use his hands. He had a gun.
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  #290  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
I don't recall reading the word 'abraded' and the injury wasn't on Trayvon's knuckle. It was below the joint. He could have gotten the tiny laceration from a paper cut for all we know.

Zimmerman didn't need to use his hands. He had a gun.
ME called it an abrasion, not a cut.
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  #291  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:36 AM
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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abraded
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  #292  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
I don't recall reading the word 'abraded' and the injury wasn't on Trayvon's knuckle. It was below the joint. He could have gotten the tiny laceration from a paper cut for all we know.

Zimmerman didn't need to use his hands. He had a gun.
I agree! I don't believe Trayvon was pounding GZ's head at all, I think GZ slipped and fell backwards. GZ could've been holding onto Trayvon's hoodie and Trayvon struggling to get free from the creepy man for all we know.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by zenreaper View Post
So if NO DNA on TM means he didn't attack him, then I guess no DNA on GZ means he didn't attack TM, right? The reason people are not taking the fact that GZ left his car into consideration is because it was PERFECTLY LEGAL.

As far as GZ lying, YOU have NO proof of that, it is merely speculation, based on SUPPOSED contradictions in his statements, which HAVEN'T been released yet.
Again this is going O/T, but I'm surprised GZ was not arrested for interferring. At the point he called it in it became an official police matter. GZ getting out of his car to follow when he was directed not to was enough information for GZ to know it was LE's responsibility to talk to TM and not his. jmo
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  #294  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:38 AM
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Yet no rips or tears or any other evidence to TM's hoodie that indicates it was being pulled or tugged in a forceful manner.
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  #295  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:38 AM
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has it been determined yet if TM was right handed or left handed?
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sleonardelli View Post
I agree! I don't believe Trayvon was pounding GZ's head at all, I think GZ slipped and fell backwards. GZ could've been holding onto Trayvon's hoodie and Trayvon struggling to get free from the creepy man for all we know.
If GZ "fell backwards" how did Trayvon end up on top of him?
How would that even work in your scenario?
Let's say GZ was running and fell backwards. Why didn't Trayvon simply run away while GZ was on the ground on his back?
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:39 AM
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Again this is going O/T, but I'm surprised GZ was not arrested for interferring. At the point he called it in it became an official police matter. GZ getting out of his car to follow when he was directed not to was enough information for GZ to know it was LE's responsibility to talk to TM and not his. jmo
How so, they don't even have evidence on who approached who, who chased who, etc.

Gilbreath said this on the stand.
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  #298  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by suzihawk View Post
I don't recall reading the word 'abraded' and the injury wasn't on Trayvon's knuckle. It was below the joint. He could have gotten the tiny laceration from a paper cut for all we know.

Zimmerman didn't need to use his hands. He had a gun.
Here's a quote from the report.
Quote:
"Other injuries: There is 1/4 x 1/8 inch small abrasion on the left fourth finger".
Page 127
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/S...-by-prosecutor
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:54 AM
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I agree! I don't believe Trayvon was pounding GZ's head at all, I think GZ slipped and fell backwards. GZ could've been holding onto Trayvon's hoodie and Trayvon struggling to get free from the creepy man for all we know.
Yep, grass gets slippery when wet...

I can't imagine TM beating the crap out of GZ and there are no wounds to back up GZ's claims...for all anyone knows, GZ could have set up that entire scenario, grabbing onto TM and rolling around to make it appear he was in a fight for life or death, when in actuality, it was TM who was in fear of his life just by the mere fact of being followed by this creepy dude..had TM shot GZ with his own weapon, it would probably be deemed self defense.but sadly, that's not the case...and suppositions will not fly...cold hard evidence flies in the face of adversity...and it appears to me, GZ's story is unravelling with each document I've read...

There was also this alleged struggle for the weapon, yet no DNA of TM is found on that weapon. The trigger also had someone elses DNA, not TM, not GZ, so who the hell did that belong to and why is foreign DNA on that gun at all....all I can say, people lie, evidence doesn't lie and for the life of me I can't understand the need for GZ to act as if he's LE instead of standing down and letting SPD handle it...this is all his fault, no one elses and I suspect he had no faith in LE to detain this person he deemed suspicious..which is why that exicted utterance of 'these a&&holes always get away" had driven his mentality...and took a teens' life because he felt he had LE and the SYG statute on his side...he was mistaken...
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  #300  
Old 05-25-2012, 12:04 PM
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Can one of our friendly medical professionals help us out with a quick question. In autopsy Mr. Martin was recorded to be 5'11 yet everyone who knew him (and images of him) suggest that he was over 6'. I also noted a discrepancy in Whitney Houston's autopsy measurement - 5'1" recorded, 5'8" actual. Is this normal? If so, is it proportional or is there an equation to where we can calculate the actual height?
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