ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - #11

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That's a difficult thing for me to do right now because they all read here. I really wish I could lay it all out and let you form your own opinion about EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. I will forever believe GG had help and I have good reason to believe this and it's a major factor in why I have formed this opinion.

Let's just look at Robyn for once and please don't get mad at me as Robyn fully could be a victim in all of this. What exactly did she have that she couldn't leave behind besides her dog and her brother that she just started talking to again after many years? She hasn't had a relationship with her mother in what almost a decade? What exactly has her parents done to help find her? If they did find the truth and found out their daughter was in on a scam do you think they would do anything about it? What exactly did she have in Maryland besides a controlling abusive boyfriend,no money,no job and no family?

Obviously her relationship with RF was rocky at best and yes they both have had abusive relationships with others and in their own relationship. How controlling was he towards her? Was she involved in a swingers club previously with Giordano and is it really that shocking she went to Aruba with GG and what she did there with him? Honestly I don't think RF or her roommate were 100% honest with MSM in their interviews about Robyn. Her roommate was way to quick to declare her dead and give away all her belongings. Of course she went out on a all out attack on Richard. The ONLY person close to Robyn who made a monumental effort to find her.

Was she broke as well? What money did she have and how much longer could she go to Richard or others for $$ to live her current lifestyle and keep that expensive car she had? Obviously it wasn't going to be GG as had no money and was living WAY over his head as well! Was Robyn the type that liked money,fine dining and the finer things in life? Of course! This was a lady that once said what she wanted most was to be famous. Obviously that wasn't going to happen in her modeling career as she had no chance of having a career like her roommate who she appeared to try and emulate. Those photo's of her with the boob job,tats,hair extensions etc etc..Showed to me she was desperate!

Giordano is a HUGE scammer and I fully think it's a possibility she wanted away from Richard and would love a chance at getting hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend or even up to a million. Normally scammers and con artists don't turn to murder they plan bigger and more thought out jobs. JMHO

I am certainly not going to get angry
I too have had moments when I thought that her involvement may have been possible


You are giving me information here that I was not aware of... the mother/daughter relationship, the expensive car etc. Things to ponder.

When this come up before, i was quietly accused of bashing, trust me, I don't bash victims, I rarely even bash suspects.

I appreciate your honesty

There is nothing about this case that isn't worth a second look

I do have a few problems with the scenario.
Her tattoos
Extremely hard to hide and unless her friends are all in on this... they have stated that the tattoos are permanent

Also, there was no assurance that they would receive any insurance payout, suspicion has been all around this case from the beginning. It is not and never was cut and dried.

It seems to me that the original amount of the insurance would not be enough to satisfy a lot of people.

You suggested several of GGs friends, Robyn, and GG

Thats not a lot of money for such a big risk

I really know nothing about anything happening in the background so all of my above comments are nothing more than thoughts put down to ponder

As you know, I have always had questions about this case, things that don't add up
This case has been over run with rumor, repeated so often , it seems fact.
It gets to a point where you just can't argue because so much is not based on fact ,but thoughts and feelings. I know that is part of what we work with but facts must come into the equation as well

Its not a bad thing to open up a new line of discussion, put emotion away and go with it
In the end, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong, the truth is all that matters.


Thanks for your thoughts

All JMO
 
It appears the OM will be visiting the states to meet with the FBI regarding the case.




To go to USA for FBI consultation case Gardner
WEDNESDAY, 20 JUNE 2012 09: 42

ORANJESTAD — the public prosecution service (OM) will soon with the FBI in the United States talking about the matter-Robyn Gardner. "There is a number of research questions at the FBI plotted on which we will have," Chief Prosecutor Peter Blanken tells to Amigoe.

Also the FBI has questions about the State of affairs of the research and the results which it has posted. The forthcoming visit to the American authorities has nothing to do with the recent demand of prime suspect, according to Gary Giordano. "Coincidentally falls to visit together," says spokesperson Ann Angela. Giordano complains the insurance arm of American Express. The company life insurance of the u.s. refuses namely Robyn Gardner to pay out. Gardner disappeared without trace during a vacation on Aruba last year August.

<snip>

Spokesperson Angela tells that the visit to the US is not uncommon. "We have very regular contact with the FBI. But also with the DEA (Drug Enforcement Administration). That is very important for us. " To the question what is the reason for the visit, spokesman says that it is a logical stage in the investigation. "We are almost a year further. We want clarity about the plotted search queries. " Wrote last year that it had a request Amigoe deposited with the United States and had more questions about phone information of both under the victim as the suspects. Which research questions are still open, could give no reply thereto a Chief Prosecutor Whites this morning.

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/...gardner?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
 
is it not possible the "thanking" poster agrees with most of the post and/or is respectfully acknowledging another's right to their opinion? ;)


Yes its possible but rather unclear to the reader

If you agree with "most" of the post, perhaps you could highlight it

Then everyone will not assume you were agreeing with all that is being stated, as I did


When I see a thanks, I immediately think the thanker agrees with the posters point of view

My bad
 
I have to say that the possibility that Robyn was involved in her own staged disappearance for financial gain is probably one that I don't think should be entirely discounted. IDK, but the possibility of this has been in the back of my mind off and on since we discussed it in a previous thread. Now that it's been brought up again I just can't totally dismiss it.

No one knows, of course, but one thing I do firmly believe, is that Gary Giordano was definitely involved firsthand with whatever happened to or with Robyn.

My opinions about what has happened to Robyn have run full circle I suppose, changed as the case has evolved over time. This is partially because of the lack of information and evidence in the case; as well as the suspicious and questionable circumstances in the day or two prior to her disappearance that can be interpreted in a variety of ways.

In the beginning stages of this case, I first believed more than anything that Robyn was most likely a victim of sex trafficking. Then I came to the belief that there was at least a 50/50 chance or more that she had probably been murdered by GG, either outright for the insurance money, or as a result of GG feeling rejected and going into a rage.

Then, the insurance policy was somewhat of a problem, so I thought that maybe GG had started routinely taking out these policies on his travel companions because he was working up to something like this, and trying to make the taking out of policies appear to be the norm, i.e., his routine, in order to cover himself when the time came. My rationale was that maybe he had just been waiting for the right place, the right time, the right opportunity, the perfect plan. Plus, it takes some "nerve", to put it lightly, in order for an average person to get to the point of actually being able to kill someone in cold blood. Not saying that GG is an average person, or that he even has a conscience, not much of one anyway, just saying that if he had never killed someone before, it couldn't be the easiest thing, even for him.

Now, the more I have thought about it I have more doubts that Robyn was trafficked. Partially because I find it hard to believe that GG would be so stupid to bring this possibility up on national television, if it were in fact what really happened. If anything, one would think that he would completely avoid drawing attention to the subject of trafficking.

As far as her being murdered and deceased, then where is her body. As far as we know, GG had no means to carry her body out several miles from Aruba into deep waters, like JVDS supposedly did with Natalee's, in order to insure that her body would not come ashore in Aruba. Also, the time was not there for him to accomplish this, meaning that for this to have happened there would have to have been an accomplice; though this possibility has never been completely ruled out either AFAIK.

A couple of problems I have: One, the tattoo, which makes it so easy to identify her. The other, why would GG openly make the statement that Robyn had taken a sleeping pill if he had in fact, planned this from the beginning. Was that just a huge, careless blunder on his part, maybe a result of the influence of drugs and alcohol? Is he like the evil version of Barney Fife who can never really do anything right?

As Blueskies pointed out, it appears that Robyn had few family ties, and very little to lose. And, from what I've read and has been reported, she wasn't exactly "the girl next door" kind of girl. But it's still difficult to fathom how someone could "disappear" forever, change their identity, totally give up their life as they know it, and live the rest of their life in a foreign land. Who knows, maybe being a "kept" woman was that important to her.

One other thought, if Robyn knowingly but naively went along with a scheme such as this, who knows if she didn't leave with someone on a boat to SA or elsewhere, then something really did happen to her afterwards, as in the ultimate double cross. Would GG and/or whoever else was involved consider it too risky for her to remain alive? :twocents:
 
I just don't see how he can get the money without a death certificate.It's called proof of death.If it is that easy to get money from an insurance company,they would go bankrupt.
As far as the insurance company knows this might be a scam between the both of them.Which I believe he killed her,but I don't think he has a leg to stand on,or others would be trying the same exact thing.Oh he is a evil man ! My thoughts he will kill again.
 
Not necessarily so that the ins. co. will have no option. They can investigate it fully themselves, and they can bring up the many discrepancies which exist in his lame story. They do not have to pay out if they can challenge his version of the events successfully. ESPECIALLY if they can show that they were drinking while supposedly scuba diving. That might make the whole thing null and void.

Not really, they can investigate all they want, but unless they can show that either she is not dead, or that there was foul play on GG's part, they will have to pay up. They could opt not to, but then it will go to arbitration and they will be directed to pay as a matter of law since it is a legal contract. So what would be the point.

If she was drunk when she died, they might have a chance, but on the video footage (which is the only objective evidence available on that subject) she is clearly not intoxicated. Having alcohol before you die doesnt make your insurance void, for that to happen you have to be intoxicated to the point of incapacity and the intoxication has to be the direct cause of death. She was not intoxicated, and if she was caught in a rip tide and pulled out to sea then whatever she was drinking clearly had nothing to do with her death.

You can't opt out of a legal contract just because you don't want to complete the terms of the agreement.
 
I have to say that the possibility that Robyn was involved in her own staged disappearance for financial gain is probably one that I don't think should be entirely discounted. IDK, but the possibility of this has been in the back of my mind off and on since we discussed it in a previous thread. Now that it's been brought up again I just can't totally dismiss it.

I don't think she had anything to do with it. Unless they were both planning to head off to live in Brazil or some place like that afterwards, it wouldn't be worth it for her. She would have to stay dissappeared, otherwise the insurance company would come looking for their money.

I think she simply got swept out to sea and GG won the jackpot as a result. I don't think it is anything more complicated than that.
 
is it not possible the "thanking" poster agrees with most of the post and/or is respectfully acknowledging another's right to their opinion? ;)

It can also mean that they are using the "thanks" to flag the post so they can find it easily again using their profile data.
 
I do have a few problems with the scenario.
Her tattoos
Extremely hard to hide and unless her friends are all in on this... they have stated that the tattoos are permanent

Tattoos can be removed. It takes a while and it ain't pretty, but it is done all the time.
 
Not really, they can investigate all they want, but unless they can show that either she is not dead, or that there was foul play on GG's part, they will have to pay up. They could opt not to, but then it will go to arbitration and they will be directed to pay as a matter of law since it is a legal contract. So what would be the point.

If she was drunk when she died, they might have a chance, but on the video footage (which is the only objective evidence available on that subject) she is clearly not intoxicated. Having alcohol before you die doesnt make your insurance void, for that to happen you have to be intoxicated to the point of incapacity and the intoxication has to be the direct cause of death. She was not intoxicated, and if she was caught in a rip tide and pulled out to sea then whatever she was drinking clearly had nothing to do with her death.

You can't opt out of a legal contract just because you don't want to complete the terms of the agreement.


How are you so certain Robyn was not intoxicated? She might have not appeared intoxicated on the short clip of the video, however, staff at the restaurant described her as "woozy." Giordano's admittance of her taking an Ambien that afternoon, followed by drinking alcohol could impair judgment and is all the more reason to not go snorkeling. That is suspicious in itself. IMO, the words of a witness hold more weight than opinion based on a short video clip.

Death as a result of suspicious circumstances is a valid reason for an insurance company to contest a life insurance claim.





If it is determined Robyn was intoxicated (based on witness accounts,) could Giordano be charged with kidnapping under the law?



TJ Ward
NANCY GRACE

Aruban authorities continue to work to drain a pond they think may have clues to Natalee Holloway`s disappearance
Aired July 27, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET

<snip>


WARD: ... And I am very surprised that law enforcement, at this point in time, has not charged Van Der Sloot with at least kidnapping under Aruban law because...

GRACE: Why do you say that?

WARD: Because the Aruban law says if you leave the bar intoxicated with somebody, and that other party becomes up missing, then you can be charged with kidnapping.

<snip>
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/27/ng.01.html
 
I have to say that the possibility that Robyn was involved in her own staged disappearance for financial gain is probably one that I don't think should be entirely discounted. IDK, but the possibility of this has been in the back of my mind off and on since we discussed it in a previous thread. Now that it's been brought up again I just can't totally dismiss it.

No one knows, of course, but one thing I do firmly believe, is that Gary Giordano was definitely involved firsthand with whatever happened to or with Robyn.

My opinions about what has happened to Robyn have run full circle I suppose, changed as the case has evolved over time. This is partially because of the lack of information and evidence in the case; as well as the suspicious and questionable circumstances in the day or two prior to her disappearance that can be interpreted in a variety of ways.

In the beginning stages of this case, I first believed more than anything that Robyn was most likely a victim of sex trafficking. Then I came to the belief that there was at least a 50/50 chance or more that she had probably been murdered by GG, either outright for the insurance money, or as a result of GG feeling rejected and going into a rage.

Then, the insurance policy was somewhat of a problem, so I thought that maybe GG had started routinely taking out these policies on his travel companions because he was working up to something like this, and trying to make the taking out of policies appear to be the norm, i.e., his routine, in order to cover himself when the time came. My rationale was that maybe he had just been waiting for the right place, the right time, the right opportunity, the perfect plan. Plus, it takes some "nerve", to put it lightly, in order for an average person to get to the point of actually being able to kill someone in cold blood. Not saying that GG is an average person, or that he even has a conscience, not much of one anyway, just saying that if he had never killed someone before, it couldn't be the easiest thing, even for him.

Now, the more I have thought about it I have more doubts that Robyn was trafficked. Partially because I find it hard to believe that GG would be so stupid to bring this possibility up on national television, if it were in fact what really happened. If anything, one would think that he would completely avoid drawing attention to the subject of trafficking.

As far as her being murdered and deceased, then where is her body. As far as we know, GG had no means to carry her body out several miles from Aruba into deep waters, like JVDS supposedly did with Natalee's, in order to insure that her body would not come ashore in Aruba. Also, the time was not there for him to accomplish this, meaning that for this to have happened there would have to have been an accomplice; though this possibility has never been completely ruled out either AFAIK.

A couple of problems I have: One, the tattoo, which makes it so easy to identify her. The other, why would GG openly make the statement that Robyn had taken a sleeping pill if he had in fact, planned this from the beginning. Was that just a huge, careless blunder on his part, maybe a result of the influence of drugs and alcohol? Is he like the evil version of Barney Fife who can never really do anything right?

As Blueskies pointed out, it appears that Robyn had few family ties, and very little to lose. And, from what I've read and has been reported, she wasn't exactly "the girl next door" kind of girl. But it's still difficult to fathom how someone could "disappear" forever, change their identity, totally give up their life as they know it, and live the rest of their life in a foreign land. Who knows, maybe being a "kept" woman was that important to her.

One other thought, if Robyn knowingly but naively went along with a scheme such as this, who knows if she didn't leave with someone on a boat to SA or elsewhere, then something really did happen to her afterwards, as in the ultimate double cross. Would GG and/or whoever else was involved consider it too risky for her to remain alive? :twocents:

I think my thoughts have run the same course as yours
In every scenario, there are questions that can't be answered
I also agree that GG is totally involved in whatever happened
But, like you , I still don't rule out involvement completely

And I thanked you because I agree, not to flag a post or show my appreciation for your opinion, although I do appreciate it
 
How are you so certain Robyn was not intoxicated? She might have not appeared intoxicated on the short clip of the video, however, staff at the restaurant described her as "woozy." Giordano's admittance of her taking an Ambien that afternoon, followed by drinking alcohol could impair judgment and is all the more reason to not go snorkeling. That is suspicious in itself. IMO, the words of a witness hold more weight than opinion based on a short video clip.

Death as a result of suspicious circumstances is a valid reason for an insurance company to contest a life insurance claim.





If it is determined Robyn was intoxicated (based on witness accounts,) could Giordano be charged with kidnapping under the law?



TJ Ward
NANCY GRACE

Aruban authorities continue to work to drain a pond they think may have clues to Natalee Holloway`s disappearance
Aired July 27, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET

<snip>


WARD: ... And I am very surprised that law enforcement, at this point in time, has not charged Van Der Sloot with at least kidnapping under Aruban law because...

GRACE: Why do you say that?

WARD: Because the Aruban law says if you leave the bar intoxicated with somebody, and that other party becomes up missing, then you can be charged with kidnapping.
<snip>
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/27/ng.01.html

That is most interesting
How long a sentence would he get with a charge of kidnapping?
Could murder charges be laid after a kidnapping charge?
 
Did LE ever find out what alcohol was in the car? What kind, how much? I guess you can ride around with open intoxicants in your vehicle there and it's A ok. You don't hear much about them giving DUI's either. Probably why they have a low crime rate. If I was vacationing with someone that went out to the car to fix a drink I would tell them no thanks I will order mine from the bar. I would also be so embarrassed. That's how the server makes their money. What a cheap *advertiser censored**. The reason could also be that he put something in her drink or the bar wouldn't make them strong enough. I would think LE would have searched his car that was sitting right there. If he did get rid of the bottle that would show premeditation.
 
How are you so certain Robyn was not intoxicated? She might have not appeared intoxicated on the short clip of the video, however, staff at the restaurant described her as "woozy." Giordano's admittance of her taking an Ambien that afternoon, followed by drinking alcohol could impair judgment and is all the more reason to not go snorkeling. That is suspicious in itself. IMO, the words of a witness hold more weight than opinion based on a short video clip.

Death as a result of suspicious circumstances is a valid reason for an insurance company to contest a life insurance claim.





If it is determined Robyn was intoxicated (based on witness accounts,) could Giordano be charged with kidnapping under the law?



TJ Ward
NANCY GRACE

Aruban authorities continue to work to drain a pond they think may have clues to Natalee Holloway`s disappearance
Aired July 27, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET

<snip>


WARD: ... And I am very surprised that law enforcement, at this point in time, has not charged Van Der Sloot with at least kidnapping under Aruban law because...

GRACE: Why do you say that?

WARD: Because the Aruban law says if you leave the bar intoxicated with somebody, and that other party becomes up missing, then you can be charged with kidnapping.

<snip>
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/27/ng.01.html

We heard about this in the first days after Natalee went missing. Of course the suspects changed their statements from Natalee being drunk/intoxicated/waisted and on drugs..Even a couple reports and statements that all 3 had sex with her before she went missing. All retracted..Appears Giordano is doing the same..Hopefully the ALE will share Giordano's initial statements with the insurance company that we heard about as well as those witness reports about Robyn.
 
Did LE ever find out what alcohol was in the car? What kind, how much? I guess you can ride around with open intoxicants in your vehicle there and it's A ok. You don't hear much about them giving DUI's either. Probably why they have a low crime rate. If I was vacationing with someone that went out to the car to fix a drink I would tell them no thanks I will order mine from the bar. I would also be so embarrassed. That's how the server makes their money. What a cheap *advertiser censored**. The reason could also be that he put something in her drink or the bar wouldn't make them strong enough. I would think LE would have searched his car that was sitting right there. If he did get rid of the bottle that would show premeditation.



If Giordano was involved in Robyn's disappearance, I would imagine he removed any credible evidence from the vehicle before returning it. The car was cleaned by the rental company before the LE had a chance to investigate the vehicle.


<snip>

The car was cleaned once Giordano returned the car to the Star rental at Aruba's airport, so police were unable to investigate the vehicle, according to law enforcement.

<snip>


http://abcnews.go.com/International...surance-policy/story?id=14321496#.T-M52RfY_To
 
Did LE ever find out what alcohol was in the car? What kind, how much? I guess you can ride around with open intoxicants in your vehicle there and it's A ok. You don't hear much about them giving DUI's either. Probably why they have a low crime rate. If I was vacationing with someone that went out to the car to fix a drink I would tell them no thanks I will order mine from the bar. I would also be so embarrassed. That's how the server makes their money. What a cheap *advertiser censored**. The reason could also be that he put something in her drink or the bar wouldn't make them strong enough. I would think LE would have searched his car that was sitting right there. If he did get rid of the bottle that would show premeditation.

No, its not ok to ride around with open alcohol or to drink and drive in Aruba
You may walk with it and its OK on the beach.

I guess its like everywhere else, people break rules and drink and drive
It seems that no matter how strict the rule, or how dangerous the situation, people do it anyway, well, at least in my country

I would not get into a car with anyone that has been drinking either and would not drive after even one 4 OZ glass of wine

And like you, i would be rather embarrassed if someone I was with went to the car to fill drinks

As no crime was thought to be comitted, I don't know if LE searched the car or not.
This was called in as a drowning/disappearance/accident
I am not sure if LE does a search under those conditions
 
If Giordano was involved in Robyn's disappearance, I would imagine he removed any credible evidence from the vehicle before returning it. The car was cleaned by the rental company before the LE had a chance to investigate the vehicle.


<snip>

The car was cleaned once Giordano returned the car to the Star rental at Aruba's airport, so police were unable to investigate the vehicle, according to law enforcement.

<snip>


http://abcnews.go.com/International...surance-policy/story?id=14321496#.T-M52RfY_To

Yes I agree with you
If he staged her death, he would probably sanitize the scene
The rental car was useless to LE
 
I am certainly not going to get angry
I too have had moments when I thought that her involvement may have been possible


You are giving me information here that I was not aware of... the mother/daughter relationship, the expensive car etc. Things to ponder.

When this come up before, i was quietly accused of bashing, trust me, I don't bash victims, I rarely even bash suspects.

I appreciate your honesty

There is nothing about this case that isn't worth a second look

I do have a few problems with the scenario.
Her tattoos
Extremely hard to hide and unless her friends are all in on this... they have stated that the tattoos are permanent

Also, there was no assurance that they would receive any insurance payout, suspicion has been all around this case from the beginning. It is not and never was cut and dried.

It seems to me that the original amount of the insurance would not be enough to satisfy a lot of people.

You suggested several of GGs friends, Robyn, and GG

Thats not a lot of money for such a big risk

I really know nothing about anything happening in the background so all of my above comments are nothing more than thoughts put down to ponder

As you know, I have always had questions about this case, things that don't add up
This case has been over run with rumor, repeated so often , it seems fact.
It gets to a point where you just can't argue because so much is not based on fact ,but thoughts and feelings. I know that is part of what we work with but facts must come into the equation as well

Its not a bad thing to open up a new line of discussion, put emotion away and go with it
In the end, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong, the truth is all that matters.


Thanks for your thoughts

All JMO

Yes she had a BMW and as far as I know she had no income although I would imagine she had some sort of unemployment. The alimony is in the court records but I was told she was no longer getting it..

Your right about the tats but when your far away from america and hiding in a private home or private adult resort away from americans it would be possible to conceal her arm. Would probably cost a pretty penny to have those removed I would imagine..Thats not her natural hair color so that would be easy to change and her look would change dramatically. IMO

Apparently GG is saying the payout is 3.5 million so that would be a great deal more then we initially thought. I don't think the scam included many others and Robyns cut could be around a million making it well worth her troubles. Just GG,Robyn and maybe 2 others. One of them investing in the scam to keep her hidden until they get paid and the other who had the contacts in Colombia and VE. This is not as far fetched as some may think as there is a man is from Robyns little town who is in the business of selling women/foreign brides/escorts etc etc and has locations in Colombia and Venezuela. I'M not going to get into details but his actions as well as another are EXTREMELY suspicious and there are just way too many coincidences regarding these two men and GG.
 
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