Do you think Darlie premeditated the murders of Devon and Damon?

[JenniferTx]

Do you think Darlie premeditated the murders of Devon and Damon or did she kill them in a fit of rage?

[wonders]

Yes she had been thinking about killing them for some time

I do think she had been thinking about it for a time. How long I don't know. Darlie was for Darlie. Money was becoming scarce and I don't think she had real interest's in children either. Just my opinion of course.

[JenniferTx]

I've always thought that Damon was one sad little boy. Every picture I have ever seen of Damon he just looks so lost and sad. I also believe that it was Devon that really was getting under her skin. I remember the lady from the pawn shop saying how ugly Darlie would talk to the boys when they were shopping in the pawn shop. Darlie would call the boys little s---s and little f-----s. What kind of mother calls their own children such names. Did Darlie think people wouldn't remember her being mean to her kids in public. If she was that mean to them in public I shutter to think what it must have been like in their own home.

[TerriM]

Originally Posted by JenniferTx

I've always thought that Damon was one sad little boy. Every picture I have ever seen of Damon he just looks so lost and sad. I also believe that it was Devon that really was getting under her skin. I remember the lady from the pawn shop saying how ugly Darlie would talk to the boys when they were shopping in the pawn shop. Darlie would call the boys little s---s and little f-----s. What kind of mother calls their own children such names. Did Darlie think people wouldn't remember her being mean to her kids in public. If she was that mean to them in public I shutter to think what it must have been like in their own home.

to me, home is a safe haven. Whenever you walk through the door,you should feel loved unconditionally. Those poor babies.
Mommy is supposed to be your best friend, your biggest fan. Again, my heart breaks for those boys.

[southernnana]

Yes, I believe that Darlie premeditated the murders of Devon and Damon. She did not come across as sincere from the beginning. At the time this happened, I lived in the Dallas area ... and local gossip was that LE did not find her story believable either.

She was trying to be a socialite in Rowlett, they were having financial problems, and the husband's business seem to be failing to some extent, or not sufficient enough to please Darlie.

Her throwing the "silly putty" over their graves of those precious boys just made me sick.

[sharkeyes]

I believe Darlie did plan the murders, and I also believe she truly thought she would get away with it. For me, her demeanor on the 911 call speaks volumes. I'm not sure whether her motivation was money - because she really did not gain anything monetarily from the death of Devon and Damon; I think she wanted to be free of the responsibility of being a mom, and if Drake had been downstairs that night, I think she would have killed him too.

[jevipo74]

There is an analysis of the Routier 911 call on the Seamus O' Riley blogspot. He breaks it down step-by-step. I tried to post the website, but it wouldn't let me.

[Cortne]

Yes I believe she did premeditate.

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[jimben]

A couple specific contradictions in her stories make her guilt clearly apparent. She first claimed that her wounded son woke her up. Then she claim to have been awaken by a knife-yielding assailant.

Clearly, there is no intruder. Therefore, her wounds must be self-inflicted. She did not have time to place the bloody sock after the self-inflicted wounds. Therefore, she must have prepared for killing her sons.

[cami]

Originally Posted by jimben

A couple specific contradictions in her stories make her guilt clearly apparent. She first claimed that her wounded son woke her up. Then she claim to have been awaken by a knife-yielding assailant.

Clearly, there is no intruder. Therefore, her wounds must be self-inflicted. She did not have time to place the bloody sock after the self-inflicted wounds. Therefore, she must have prepared for killing her sons.

No blood outside where she cut the window screen. That was done in advance so yes some premeditation took place. She did not stab the boys in a rage. If she had there would have been injuries all over their bodies. Those wounds on Devon are deliberate, aimed for the heart.

I feel quite sure whatever happened between her and Darin that night is the cause of the children's deaths.

The marriage was on the rocks, the business was failing, Darin and Darlie had been fighting for months. Gone was her big beautiful house and all her nice things, gone was the money. Gone were the vacations she could take to get away from it all, gone were the parties in hotels where she could go to get away from it all.

She's going back to her mother or out on her own, only this time with three children in tow.

[SoBeCzar]

I think she was unhappy in her marriage and with the strain of 3 children, possibly some post partum depression and a lot of "poor me". She probably had been thinking of it for some time but never really planned it in depth. I think her sleeping downstairs away from Darin gave her the opportunity to do this. She would get sympathy and attention and be rid of her responsibilities of caring for the older boys. Her 911 call makes it sound as if she expected Darin would not believe her. If she had put more thought into it she may have gotten away with it. As it were, I think opportunity and unhappiness led her to act before she had formulated a real plan.

[LeanaSA]

On the topic of narcissism, I did a bit of research and came across the concept of narcissistic rage (source: A.H. Almaas):

Intensity of Reactive Anger
...has special characteristics because the narcissistic hurt is different from other types of emotional pain. The fact that this hurt is very vulnerable, and opens up to an emptiness signifying the dissolution of identity, imbues the reactive anger with an intensity and hardness rarely seen in other kinds of anger.
The Point of Existence, p. 324

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Hatred that Underlies the Desire for Vengeance
The (narcissitic) rage may turn into, or be accompanied by, a cold hatred that gives her qualities of power, invincibility, and calculation. This hatred underlies the desire for vengeance, for wanting to inflict pain and suffering, and for actually enjoying getting back at the person who failed her.
The Point of Existence, p. 327

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Provocation of Narcissistic Rage
The narcissistic individual, or the normal individual at this phase of development, is prone to intense anger, an irrational rage, which may take the form of acute explosions or be chronic and vengeful. This narcissistic rage is provoked by the slightest—real or imagined—narcissistic insult, such as not being seen, understood, or appreciated, in the way one feels he deserves. Narcissistic envy may arise; one hates anyone who has (or seems to have), a rich inner life or external acclaim and feels pain about not having what the other has.
The Point of Existence, p. 327

If Darlie is truly a narcissist, could she have gone into a narsissistic rage that night, after the fight? I guess if they were fighting about money and if one of the topics was that she can't go on the trip with her girl friends because there is no money and the loan was declined, and she is stressed out and a slave to her family at home and she feels she deserves it...Just speculating, but if she was in a cold rage, possibly she might have premeditated - but only shortly before she did the deed. If she had planned it well in advance, why would she have spent money on buying plane tickets to the family event a few weeks later?

[txsvicki]

I've always thought it was premeditated. Maybe not by days, but at least that evening, and she waited til the boys fell asleep.

[JodyMT]

Well, since premeditation can be as much as a few seconds, I would have to say yes. I don't think she was thinking about killing them for a very long time, but who knows. I just think if she had really thought it out, she might have staged that crime scene better.

I know she should have thought out that cemetery party more thoroughly.

[Cassata11]

Originally Posted by JodyMT

Well, since premeditation can be as much as a few seconds, I would have to say yes. I don't think she was thinking about killing them for a very long time, but who knows. I just think if she had really thought it out, she might have staged that crime scene better.

I know she should have thought out that cemetery party more thoroughly.

One of the biggest thoughts about the silly string day, is that Darlie said it was "taken out of context." Darlie wanted the world to see that she was a good mom, and celebrating their lives. She thought, my guess, is that if every one sees how strong she was, they couldn't see her as a cold hearted killer. Much like Scott Peterson thought that going on talk shows mourning would fool the world into thinking he cared. This type of person truly believes they can outwit society. That's why they stick to the innocent story for so long. Eventually, they believe people will start to believe it.

[cami]

Originally Posted by LeanaSA

On the topic of narcissism, I did a bit of research and came across the concept of narcissistic rage (source: A.H. Almaas):

Intensity of Reactive Anger
...has special characteristics because the narcissistic hurt is different from other types of emotional pain. The fact that this hurt is very vulnerable, and opens up to an emptiness signifying the dissolution of identity, imbues the reactive anger with an intensity and hardness rarely seen in other kinds of anger.
The Point of Existence, p. 324

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hatred that Underlies the Desire for Vengeance
The (narcissitic) rage may turn into, or be accompanied by, a cold hatred that gives her qualities of power, invincibility, and calculation. This hatred underlies the desire for vengeance, for wanting to inflict pain and suffering, and for actually enjoying getting back at the person who failed her.
The Point of Existence, p. 327

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Provocation of Narcissistic Rage
The narcissistic individual, or the normal individual at this phase of development, is prone to intense anger, an irrational rage, which may take the form of acute explosions or be chronic and vengeful. This narcissistic rage is provoked by the slightest—real or imagined—narcissistic insult, such as not being seen, understood, or appreciated, in the way one feels he deserves. Narcissistic envy may arise; one hates anyone who has (or seems to have), a rich inner life or external acclaim and feels pain about not having what the other has.
The Point of Existence, p. 327

If Darlie is truly a narcissist, could she have gone into a narsissistic rage that night, after the fight? I guess if they were fighting about money and if one of the topics was that she can't go on the trip with her girl friends because there is no money and the loan was declined, and she is stressed out and a slave to her family at home and she feels she deserves it...Just speculating, but if she was in a cold rage, possibly she might have premeditated - but only shortly before she did the deed. If she had planned it well in advance, why would she have spent money on buying plane tickets to the family event a few weeks later?

To the disbelief of society, 1400 to 2000 childen are murdered in the US each year. Four or five children die at their parents hands every day, nearly all killed before they enter first grade. Half of them are killed by their mothers: young, often in the twenties, married, the biological mother of a child or children they bore early--and with no history of previous arrest. The children of these mothers were often killed in their homes.

In many ways, Darlie Routier fit the profile.

Most of the woman killed to protect a sense of themselves, their own sanity. They often manufactured a story to cover their acts. The story usually came after they initially killed--a way of dealing with their own sense of guilt, shame or their own shock at what they had done. The relied on society's deep resistance to believing they could be responsible. To deal with the overwhelming guilt, they went into denial. Denial supported by an outpouring of sumpathy and support.

But motives for killing could also include revenge. Had Darlie been trying to get back at Darin? Or one of the children?

Often the killing is simply in response to overwhelming levels of stress. The unfinished suicide note written only a month earlier by Darlie Routier could only be perceived as a cry for help. She tried to communicate how scared, how worried and how overwhelmed she was, but people didn't listen (except Basia).

Perhaps she couldn't stand the thought of the her children growing up wtihout her (I find this hard to believe).

Most women who kill their children are pushed to their mental limits and have diminished ability to deal with raising their children. Some suffer personalities disorders in which they new grew up. Some had never acquired moral values. Frequently, they were reenacting their own childhood traumas, including sexual abuse, or the divorce or death of a parent.

This is from Pat Springer's book.

[emma l]

Hi Cami

First of all, you are so knowledgeable on this subject (Darlie). I spent days and days going back over all the posts on this board and you seem to have answered any question that I might have been asking, so thanks for that!

I just finished reading Pat Springers book last night and I couldn't sleep. I kept waking up in the night going over and over it in my head. HOW could she do it? How?

I think for a long long time I have been on the fence about Darlie. Even after I read the transcripts I would formulate different scenarios in my head about the evidence could have got where it got , no matter how ludicrous they were.

Re: the narcissism thing, this makes a lot of sense. Even down to some people believing in her innocence- I think some of the people who know her that believe in her innocence just never saw the other side of Darlie. I think shes a master manipulator.

I also think that the crime is so SO horrible that no one wants to believe it. I know I don't.

And I agree with everyone that there was some premeditation. It might have been minutes, it might have been hours. And she fully expected and probably still expects to get away with it.