VA - Grateful Dead Fan - Unidentified male, 26 June 1995 - #2

[crissianni]

Dear ClaireNC,

Thank you so much for your kindly written and thoughtful reply. Also thank you for pulling up those stats! So quick and very useful.

Here is my take. I also agree that there is a slim to none chance that Jason Doe would have been from the FLDS. First, most of the FLDS are out west, not back east. That's a long way to travel.

Second, I think it is more likely he would have been a runaway whose identity never made it to the Internet.... this man died in 1995. If he were a reported missing youth, by the time states started putting info up on the Internet, he would have been over 18. He also could have turned 18 before he died and asked to have his name removed because he wanted to cut off contact. And with the large number of reported runaways, he probably got scrubbed from the records years ago.

I believe there is too much disincentive in relation to runaway children that results in inadequate documentation. For example:

"Runaways comprise the largest category of missing children. The manpower and resources needed to track them, as well as the perception that they will eventually return to their families by themselves, have made them a difficult enforcement problem." (Utah Department of Public Safety Bureau of Criminal Identification: http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/MPCmissing.html )

"These departments admitted they'd been violating federal law by delaying their reports to the FBI -- often in hopes the children will return home on their own -- or by entirely ignoring cases of suspected runaways." (Seattle PI report on 2005 FBI findings of agency non-compliance prior to 2005: http://www.seattlepi.com/national/ar...en-1198084.php )

Since "about one-fifth of runaways return within 24 hours, and, after one week, three-quarters of all runaways have returned home or to care," it is easy to see why properly handling runaway cases becomes a disincentive for law enforcement. (2002 U.S. Department of Justice "National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Throwaway Children" http://www.popcenter.org/problems/ru..._etal_2002.pdf )

My conclusion is that this is most likely who Jason Doe is- a normal U.S. boy who ran away.

Unfortunately, this theory doesn't solve the problem of identifying who he is. Perhaps my efforts would be better spent drudging up ancient missing child records, but this seems like an impossible task and this would definitely exhaust me.

So what is the point of myself, or anyone else for that matter, doing anything to try to identify this young man, or any of these young UIDs for that matter, considering the barriers? Especially considering that by the time officials ask the public for help, all the easy routes to identification have been exhausted.

That leaves only the difficult and obscure routes. And I will be ashamed if I do not make some sort of an attempt to leave this world a better place for me having been in it.

This is my take. The Lost Boys idea is a long shot, but it is something I feel capable of doing. Especially if I doubled or tripled up well-vetted potential UIDs and raised interest that way. If it doesn't work for this case, perhaps it would for another.

Thank you so much though, for pointing out how easily something of this nature can burn a person out. That is what happened to me last year. I don't know if you read my initial post, but I actually had this theory a year ago. I spent so much time consumed by this and a few other cases that by the time I actually registered on the site, I couldn't take any more of it. It was depressing and exhausting to think about and once I started to think about it, it was easy to get consumed with it. So it is always good to remind myself not to let that happen again.

With this in mind and your kind words taken into consideration, here is my conclusion. I plan to look into the Lost Boy theory further, but to do it at a slowed pace so as not to end up frustrated enough that I walk away for another year. With the people that I know and the resources I feel I have, it would be easiest for me to investigate this theory. It will not be the daunting task that it would be for most other members.

I can tell from the way that you write that you are a kind-hearted person. Thank you for introducing yourself to me and for offering up a valued opinion. Through thorough questioning and seeing things from multiple angles, we will get the best results.

Take care and I will keep in touch.

Originally Posted by ClaireNC

Hi crissianni, Thanks for sharing the info on the FLDS and its "Lost Boys". Makes total sense from the polygamy perspective, but I had never heard anything about it before and I love to learn new things! With that said, the possibility that Jason Doe is from one of the FLDS sects is really small, so don't put so much time into it, unless you have something about Jason Doe that really screams 'lost boy'. That will just burn you out and take away resources that could be better used in other ways.

There are so many runaways, throw-aways and teens/young adults that just simply do not have anybody in their lives that care enough to report them missing. Also there are many young men in their late teens and early twenties, who just take off to venture out on their own, even if their parents wish they had not.

IMO There are so many cultural factors/living situations where a young adult male would not be reported to officials as missing. Here are some statistics on the US population that I believe are relevant:
-The National Network for Youth suggests that approximately 1 to 1.3 million young people run away from home each year. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/index.html
- The number of children in foster care increased during the 1990s from 400,000 in 1990 to 567,000 in 1999 http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/?q=node/199
- Today less than half of children grow up with both natural parents. Nearly a third are born to unmarried parents, the majority of whom never live together, and another third are born to married parents who divorce before their child reaches adulthood. To further complicate matters, a substantial number of children are exposed to multiple marital disruptions and multiple father figures. http://apps.olin.wustl.edu/macarthur...mclanahan2.htm
- Another factor that might result in a young adult not being reported as missing is poverty. In 1996, the number of people in poverty was 36.5 million, representing 13.7 percent of the population. http://www.census.gov/prod/3/97pubs/P60-198.PDF

To put it into perspective, the number of FDLS members in the US is relatively small, leading to the conclusion of Jason Doe being part of that culture as statistically unlikely.
- Fundamentalist Mormons differ from mainstream Mormonism primarily in their belief in and practice of plural marriage. There are thought to be between 20,000 and 60,000 members of fundamentalist sects, (0.1–0.4% of Mormons), with roughly half of them practicing polygamy. Mormons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Various sources indicate that there are between 500 and 1000 FDLS "lost boys" in the US. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005...a.julianborger

The Amish population is just a bit larger:
As of 2000, over 165,000 Old Order Amish live in the United States and approximately 1500 live in Canada.[5] A 2008 study suggested their numbers have increased to 227,000,[6] and in 2010 a study suggested their population had grown by 10% in the past two years to 249,000, with increasing movement to the West.[1] Amish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In summary, the likelihood that Jason Doe was an FDLS "lost boy" is very small. The possibility that might be Amish and out doing a rumspringa adventure has already been brought up here. Both religions are such a small part of the overall population that it is statistically unlikely.

[ClaireNC]

Originally Posted by crissianni

Dear ClaireNC,

Thank you so much for your kindly written and thoughtful reply. Also thank you for pulling up those stats! So quick and very useful.

(respectfully snipped)

I will be ashamed if I do not make some sort of an attempt to leave this world a better place for me having been in it.

This is my take. The Lost Boys idea is a long shot, but it is something I feel capable of doing. Especially if I doubled or tripled up well-vetted potential UIDs and raised interest that way. If it doesn't work for this case, perhaps it would for another.

Thank you so much though, for pointing out how easily something of this nature can burn a person out. (respectfully snipped). So it is always good to remind myself not to let that happen again.

With this in mind and your kind words taken into consideration, here is my conclusion. I plan to look into the Lost Boy theory further, but to do it at a slowed pace so as not to end up frustrated enough that I walk away for another year. With the people that I know and the resources I feel I have, it would be easiest for me to investigate this theory. It will not be the daunting task that it would be for most other members.

I can tell from the way that you write that you are a kind-hearted person. Thank you for introducing yourself to me and for offering up a valued opinion. Through thorough questioning and seeing things from multiple angles, we will get the best results.

Take care and I will keep in touch.

Hi crissianni, I am so glad to see that you took my comments in the spirit that they were written. I was afraid that my post was too harsh and come on here this morning to see if I could edit it.

Yes, thorough questioning and seeing things from multiple perspectives is the best way to get results. Taking advantage of each members individual skills is also critical. You have a special set of skills and network of contacts that most of us do not have access to. You should certainly use that unique talent to ensure that we have covered all of the bases, in this particular case.

There might also be a larger topic of the FLDS "lost boys" that would be relevant to Websleuths that is separate from the Unidentified section of the forum. Maybe start a thread down in the Parking Lot to see if there is interest and a place for it? Or contact a Mod and see what they think. While I don't know much about the FLDS practices, it sounds like the "lost boys" would be particularly vulnerable when they are pushed out of the family. As a mother of a 22 year old son, my heart hurts that the thought.

Edit to add this link: http://www.childbrides.org/boys.html How sad!

[Mels3kidz]

This is so frustrating. It is so solvable or it should be.

*IF* the ME's office was correct and Jason's family did contact them but didn't claim him then only way IMO we will find out who he is would be if younger siblings (who might not be aware of their parents decision or who might be waiting until after the parents pass if there was acrimony in the relationship with Jason) or if extended family searches for him.

Otherwise it might come down to a lucky hit with DNA (maybe an unrelated case generates a hit).

Sorry for being so down on this right now but I've felt drawn to this case because he died the day before my birthday. And now we have the 17th anniversary coming up next week and I just feel so bad that this boy is alone.

Melissa

[WholeLottaRosie]

I am adding this now as it is fresh in my mind, and, while on one hand I think it is nothing, I thought I would throw it out for you all to look at.

I am reading a book called How I Learned To Cook: Culinary Educations from the World's Greatest Chefs by
Witherspoon, Kimberly, Meehan, Peter, which are essays by chefs.

One is by Chef Jimmy Bradley, and in it he says (sometime in 1985 - 87 or so, he is a little vague) he was working in a seafood restaurant in Naggansett RI and he was in the kitchen, and got his break to cooking when a cook went to a GD concert and was never heard from again. Now, he says no more about this. But, I got to to thinking about our Doe and had to look at this all. I think a cook at that time could have been 16 - 20, so adding 8 - 10 years could put him 24 - 30 in 95. Unlikely, I suppose, but, I had to put it out there. Not sure where to go from here, I find no RI missing that fits but who knows if the cook was reported, or ever really heard from again.

[necco]

In addition to the "lost boy" theory, I have recently started to wonder if some unidentified cases are actually ex-communicated Anabaptists (Amish, Old Order Mennonite, etc) or those who went on rumspringa and never returned. If they were supposed to be out of touch with their communities, who would report them missing?

[Aphra]

If you're familiar with the Maricopa Jane Doe (later identified as Tawni Lee Mazzone) case, when she was identified a few years ago it turned out that nobody was looking for her because they assumed she was still alive and had just run away. She was never reported missing. It was only when her brother got online and started looking for her that she was identified. So my guess is that this is a runaway, no one is looking for him because they assume he's still out there somewhere, and until someone gets on the Internet and starts really looking for him, he's going to remain unidentified.

(I realize that this is not an original thought. But I think it's the one closest to the truth.)

[Mels3kidz]

Originally Posted by Aphra

So my guess is that this is a runaway, no one is looking for him because they assume he's still out there somewhere, and until someone gets on the Internet and starts really looking for him, he's going to remain unidentified.

(I realize that this is not an original thought. But I think it's the one closest to the truth.)

I just wish we knew: 1. What LE/ME initially released to the public regarding Jason's description and 2. What the caller asked about him that made LE think that the family had contacted them. (For example if they didn't release the info about the home made star tattoo and the caller asked if he had one we'd have a pretty good indication that LE was right.)

Melissa, just my

[Beamie]

17 years ago today...

[Mels3kidz]

Originally Posted by Beamie

17 years ago today...

I wish we had a flower icon....but this will have to do. @--->----@--->----

Mel

[neverletgo]

Here we are, 17 years later.

May you rest in peace.

[leslieshaw]

Blessings to this unnamed soul and his family. May the four winds blow you safely home again.

[Swamp Fox Trot]

There was a young boy (12 or so) who disappeared with his hippy mom from New Mexico or somewhere about five years before Jason Doe was found . . . has anyone checked this out?

[Nikon]

I just started reading, and I am intrigued in this case. I will add more. Where can I read about this case? Too many posts in this thread, so I've been skimming.

Has anyone suggest this person yet? http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...tt_donald.html

[RRW]

Originally Posted by Nikon

I just started reading, and I am intrigued in this case. I will add more. Where can I read about this case? Too many posts in this thread, so I've been skimming.

Has anyone suggest this person yet? http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...tt_donald.html

He was ruled out through DNA.

Ruled out MD - Donald Lee Izzett, Jr., 19, Cumberland, May 1995 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Ruled out MD - Donald Lee Izzett, Jr., 19, Cumberland, May 1995 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

[trying2id]

What does everyone think of the new picture that has been released?

[Beamie]

I wonder why they changed the shirt, it's not the same as he was wearing that night

[redrover1]

Hello everyone,

I am new to posting on the forum but have been looking over all the posts here on this case for a while now. I have read some really good ideas on here and I just wanted to post what I think is a possible (and most likely in my mind) scenario.

1. Jason is likely his name as stated on the letter and he likely met the "Carolines" at the concert. I feel that Jason was likely in the middle of the age range assessed by ME (17-18). Pre-9/11 you did not need an ID for anything other than driving and buying booze. I don't believe he had a drivers liscence and never needed to get an identification card because he was underage. Hence, he did not carry any identification. In those days you did not even need to show your ID card in order to get onto a plane. I read that the phone number prefix "914" is used in several locations around the D.C. area so I assess that the Carolines are from that area and did not think of putting an area code because they were already at or near that area code. Before cell phones I dont think I ever gave someone my landline area code unless i was out of state. I also think that they were likely the same age as Jason and have no idea that people are looking for them or that Jason died that night. If you dont look up missing persons/UI persons you really dont come across it as i had never heard of this case until recently when i became interested in the topic.

2. I do not not believe Jason was a "die hard" Gratefull Dead fan (brought up in earlier posts by people on here due to his commercial shirt of the ongoing tour rather than a homemade/handmade shirt). I believe he was entering a phase in his life. When i was that age, one year i was a Dr. Dre fan and dressed the part, the next year i was a Nirvana fan and dressed the part. I believe its completely possible that alot of his family members did not recognize his new musical tastes and may have even remembered him as enjoying a different taste (country, Rap, etc.). I can see an Aunt not thinking this is their relative because their missing person likes Garth Brooks not the Grateful Dead.

3. I don't believe that Jason knew the driver of the van prior to the event. I dont think that Jason was a hitchhiker (in the sense of he was thumnbing a ride). The driver left his girlfriends house at 7:45 am alone, I find it hard that he would pick up a random hitchhiker that early in the morning (which would have to be the case as neighbors at his dad's house noticed another man when he arrived at his dad's house later that morning). Although the driver did not go to the concert, I believe they likely met at an afterparty or at a bar (when i was at that age, i would go to bars with my friends that were of age and mix into a table of a large amount of people and then let the people of age bring me back drinks, I rarely got caught and i looked really young for my age). From there they started talking and became aquainted. I believe that they likely stayed up late that night and that is the reason that the driver fell asleep behind the wheel at 1:30 PM the next day. When i was the van drivers age (21), the only time i woulda fallen asleep involuntarily at 1:30 PM is because of a serious night of partying. I also believe that Jason is likely from North Carolina and caught a ride with the driver because he was going that way, something they discussed where they met. According to the news article i read in another post, the driver left his girlfriends house at 7:45 am. I would like to know if they were together 100% of the time prior or did he go out that night or on another night without her. If they never left eachothers side the whole time in Virginia, then i will have to adjust this theory.

4. I dont believe that Jason is a full blown runaway though i do believe he has been "gone" for extended periods of time from his home and had at least threatened to runaway for good. I believe that he had a rough childhood and may have alcoholic parents or may have been raised by an alcoholic relative that looked at him as a burden and did not really put much effort in raising him. When he dissappeared, it was another one of his "episodes" and "he'll be back whenever he gets back". I also believe that the recreations of what he looked like in life is probably off a good bit, further complicating the possitive identification.

I apologize for the extremely long post but wanted to put out what i believe and hopefully help in any way I can.........

[redrover1]

I guess my biggest problem with the hitchhiker theory is this:

I am trying to put myself in the drivers shoes....

I have been driving a lot over the last few days....from SC to NY and back to Virginia, I just dropped my girlfriend off and likely wont see her for awhile (so i am a little sad)....I now have to leave early and drive back to SC but need to stop along the way at my fathers house.....I just want to hurry up and get the driving over with.

Along the way to my fathers house, i see a hitchhiker with a tye dyed shirt, jeans, and long hair that likely had been dyed......

I just dont see myself stopping and picking him up.....I see myself speeding by and trying to get home as soon as possible so I can.....

That is why i stated in the above post that i believe they had to have met somewhere previously and discussed the UID catching a ride.

Just my thoughts.....

[Magnum P.E.]

A thought just occurred to me. LE believes that family or friends may have contacted them after the accident. The accident did not receive coverage nationally that I know of, so we could narrow down the search a great deal if we could determine who among the public could have heard about the UID that early on. In other words, which TV/Radio/Newspapers had covered the story at the time the call was received. Could be a completely blind alley, or Jason Doe may have been pretty close to home. Anyone know how to find that out?

[eileenhawkeye]

Originally Posted by Magnum P.E.

A thought just occurred to me. LE believes that family or friends may have contacted them after the accident. The accident did not receive coverage nationally that I know of, so we could narrow down the search a great deal if we could determine who among the public could have heard about the UID that early on. In other words, which TV/Radio/Newspapers had covered the story at the time the call was received. Could be a completely blind alley, or Jason Doe may have been pretty close to home. Anyone know how to find that out?

I have access to a newspaper archive site through my college. Since people actually read newspapers in 1995, I thought it would give us an accurate idea of what the coverage was like. However, when I searched for "grateful dead jason doe" I could only find a few articles from the Richmond Times Dispatch about the case.

These are the following Virginia newspapers whose archive extend back to 1995:

Harrisonburg Daily News Record
Newport News Daily Press
The Roanoke Times
The Virginian Pilot (Norfolk)
Richmond Times Dispatch

But I could only find articles from Richmond Times Dispatch. It looks like there wasn't any state-wide coverage of the case, let alone national.

Maybe I am searching for the wrong thing?

[Magnum P.E.]

Wow you are quick!

What I was getting at is, if the call came in when only a few TV/Radio stations had broadcast the news, then he probably had family in the coverage area of those stations.

Since the story was not widely covered, the time frame may not really matter so much. The question is, if family or friends heard about the accident then how could they have done so at all? Do any of the newspaper accounts refer to radio/TV coverage? Anyone local who knows what TV and radio stations were in the area at the time?

So far as the newspapers go, a map with an overlay of the distribution area of the Richmond Dispatch in 1995 will be useful. We could assume that he had friends or family in that area. Not much to go on but has not been tried yet.

[Mysteryphile]

Kudos for thinking outside of the box!! The idea to check where the story was ran to narrow down the search area was brilliant! Sad to think he was almost home when he was killed though. (if indeed someone had called asking about him)

[Magnum P.E.]

Thanks. Is there a timeline? Does anyone know exactly when the call came in, and to whom? This may all lead to nothing but it is about all there is at this point.
I wonder how accurate the reconstructions are, given the extent of the injuries in the crash? Not much we can do about that.

[PHB]

If this guy was the only child of a dead single parent, we're never going to ID him. Does anyone know if UID DNA is compared against the convicted felon database? That is, if I was an UID, and my brother was a convicted felon, would they be able to match us up?
Or for that matter do all states compare thier UID DNA with the fed. database?

[Swamp Fox Trot]

Originally Posted by Swamp Fox Trot

There was a young boy (12 or so) who disappeared with his hippy mom from New Mexico or somewhere about five years before Jason Doe was found . . . has anyone checked this out?

This is who I meant, Nicholas Vincent Smith: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/146dmnm.html. He would have been living under the radar for a few years. Says he had hazel eyes vs. brown for John Doe. But they sure look simliar to me.