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  #601  
Old 07-27-2012, 10:19 PM
jjenny jjenny is offline
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Not necessarily.
When the baby was recently kidnapped in TX, the mother didn't do anything wrong (and she was killed during the kidnapping), the father wasn't even at the scene of kidnapping, DCF still wouldn't give the baby to him for some time.
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  #602  
Old 07-27-2012, 11:21 PM
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so

so how did that guy get access to the little girl ?
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  #603  
Old 07-28-2012, 12:09 AM
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I remember first reading this story in the Tulsa news. I assumed Tommy did it even though the family claimed he was innocent...and even though nothing in his FB, etc. sent up red flags. It was just a weird scenario. I wish I had followed it on here. I felt guilty for my assumptions when he was cleared by DNA evidence.

Praying for great things in the future for this young man and his family.
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:25 AM
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so how did that guy get access to the little girl ?
All we know so far is that he lived in that trailer park. So he could have easily seen the little girl every day. And I think getting access to a trailer home is not always that hard. I think he went through the bedroom window, they said. But first he killed the family dog.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
The only way I can imagine that DHS would have a case is if this perp had been invited into the trailer that night and they all drank or got high together. And if Mom and Tommy went to bed and passed out, and the perp came back and snuck in, etc, then maybe that is why they are saying there was negligence. Just speculating..
That's what I was thinking also, that the parents had been drinking or were in some way incapacitated (by their own doing) and would therefore be considered neglectful.

As far as the accuracy of FB. It may be true in this case that FB was more accurate but most guilty people claim innocence, it just happened to be true in this case. I don't think we can really argue that, in general, FB is a more accurate source than MSM.
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ttowngirl View Post
so how did that guy get access to the little girl ?
A window was found broken, so I presume he got in through the window.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:48 PM
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Not necessarily.
When the baby was recently kidnapped in TX, the mother didn't do anything wrong (and she was killed during the kidnapping), the father wasn't even at the scene of kidnapping, DCF still wouldn't give the baby to him for some time.

Firstly, I am SO GLAD this animal was captured! I hope he goes away for life.

Secondly, IIRC, the husband/father in the Texas case had a bit of a checkered past, and also admitted if childrens' services drug-tested him, he would test positive for weed. The kids were given to the woman's mother for a few days, and I remember a social worker stating something like they had no problem with him seeing the kids as much as possible, and he regained custody in a few days.

Thirdly, katydid23 is right, trailers are not very secure. I remember when I was an EMT seeing a training video of a firefighter smashing through a trailer with a halligan tool (like a crowbar), he made a man-sized hole in less than a minute.
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  #608  
Old 07-28-2012, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxmama View Post
That's what I was thinking also, that the parents had been drinking or were in some way incapacitated (by their own doing) and would therefore be considered neglectful.

As far as the accuracy of FB. It may be true in this case that FB was more accurate but most guilty people claim innocence, it just happened to be true in this case. I don't think we can really argue that, in general, FB is a more accurate source than MSM.
It is really hard to figure out how someone could kill the family dog, throw him in the neighbors yard, climb in to the childs bedroom window, breaking the glass, and rape her, all while the parents are in the trailer. It was not a big trailer, and sound usually carries very well in those. I think that might be why LE suspected it was an inside job and not an intruder.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:11 PM
jjenny jjenny is offline
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Originally Posted by PHB View Post
Firstly, I am SO GLAD this animal was captured! I hope he goes away for life.

Secondly, IIRC, the husband/father in the Texas case had a bit of a checkered past, and also admitted if childrens' services drug-tested him, he would test positive for weed. The kids were given to the woman's mother for a few days, and I remember a social worker stating something like they had no problem with him seeing the kids as much as possible, and he regained custody in a few days.

Thirdly, katydid23 is right, trailers are not very secure. I remember when I was an EMT seeing a training video of a firefighter smashing through a trailer with a halligan tool (like a crowbar), he made a man-sized hole in less than a minute.
My point is, in TX father didn't do anything wrong regarding protecting his child from kidnapping. CPS still wouldn't give him the child back for some time (it was longer than just a few days). And I believe he never got the oldest child back because the oldest wasn't his biological child. And in this case, Tommy Braden isn't biological father of the girl either.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
My point is, in TX father didn't do anything wrong regarding protecting his child from kidnapping. CPS still wouldn't give him the child back for some time (it was longer than just a few days). And I believe he never got the oldest child back because the oldest wasn't his biological child. And in this case, Tommy Braden isn't biological father of the girl either.


Whoops, I guess I got some details wrong. I would assume the social workers were concerned about his ability to take care of a newborn by himself. I'm 33 years old, and I don't know the first thing about taking care of a baby, or any child, really. I can't really cook, and I certaintly have never changed a diaper, LOL. Years ago I had to babysit my then-GF's 9 y/o daughter for a day and that was exhausting, and she was a nice, well-behaved kid. Thats sad, BTW that they broke up the siblings, too.
I can't imagiine faulting the parents in a situation like this, unless there is some really big detail that hasn't come out yet.
JMO
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:49 PM
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Since Tommy Braden already has been falsely accused of rape, I would really hate to see him falsely accused of anything else. We don't have any evidence of any wrongdoing on his part. And who knows why CPS does anything? It's not always possible to figure it out. They've re-united enough children with parents that should have never been re-united. So I am not going to assume they are doing the right thing here unless we have more information.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
It is really hard to figure out how someone could kill the family dog, throw him in the neighbors yard, climb in to the childs bedroom window, breaking the glass, and rape her, all while the parents are in the trailer. It was not a big trailer, and sound usually carries very well in those. I think that might be why LE suspected it was an inside job and not an intruder.
But they should always have evidence before they lock someone up in jail and take away their freedom for 13 weeks.

They cant just assume someone is guilty. Where would that leave all of us in America? Sitting ducks just like this man who was put in jail when they had no evidence he was even the one that had harmed this child.

That is unforgivable to me. How does he ever get his 13 weeks back that were taken from him and the shame that came with it from being falsely accused of the worst crime possible.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
It is really hard to figure out how someone could kill the family dog, throw him in the neighbors yard, climb in to the childs bedroom window, breaking the glass, and rape her, all while the parents are in the trailer. It was not a big trailer, and sound usually carries very well in those. I think that might be why LE suspected it was an inside job and not an intruder.
I definitely think that is why LE was looking in his direction. I am also going to assume that these are also the reasons that CPS is being cautious. They may be thinking that the parents were in some way incapacitated and they want to make sure there was no neglect.

Whatever happened that night, I hope they get is sorted out fast so this family can try to move on.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:52 PM
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But they should always have evidence before they lock someone up in jail and take away their freedom for 13 weeks.

They cant just assume someone is guilty. Where would that leave all of us in America? Sitting ducks just like this man who was put in jail when they had no evidence he was even the one that had harmed this child.

That is unforgivable to me. How does he ever get his 13 weeks back that were taken from him and the shame that came with it from being falsely accused of the worst crime possible.
I agree. I am just relieved it was only 13 weeks. We see cases where innocent people do 10, 20 plus YEARS in prison. It is devastating to think about.

My father was a defense attorney so you are 'preaching to the choir' here. I fully understand the importance of a competent defense against the unwieldly sometimes malevolent prosecution system.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
Since Tommy Braden already has been falsely accused of rape, I would really hate to see him falsely accused of anything else. We don't have any evidence of any wrongdoing on his part. And who knows why CPS does anything? It's not always possible to figure it out. They've re-united enough children with parents that should have never been re-united. So I am not going to assume they are doing the right thing here unless we have more information.
I understand. I am not saying they were guilty of anything. Just trying to understand how this crime happened, given the weird circumstances.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:45 AM
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This story is horrendous. I wish LE could be sued for false arrest in this case. What makes me so furious is the normal 'defense' is "the evidence pointed to him". Well no it did not. It clearly did not. He was innocent so it could not have pointed to him. The evidence pointed to what I believed from the start, an intruder.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:59 AM
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I understand. I am not saying they were guilty of anything. Just trying to understand how this crime happened, given the weird circumstances.
Katydid I think there are enough (thousands) of cases of burglars who can take money from your bedside table while you sleep to show it isn't nearly as difficult as we expect. Let alone the other cases where a child is taken out and murdered ..here he just did it in the house.

There isn't much of a difference imo. It only takes a second to put a hand over a 4 year olds mouth and traumatize her into silence with whispered threats. To be blunt I think he was totally ready by the time he even got into the trailer so he would have wasted no time assaulting her viciously. Probably in and out of the trailer within 10 minutes.

Parents can be deep sleepers and there were probably few sounds from the bedroom.
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:42 PM
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This story is horrendous. I wish LE could be sued for false arrest in this case. What makes me so furious is the normal 'defense' is "the evidence pointed to him". Well no it did not. It clearly did not. He was innocent so it could not have pointed to him. The evidence pointed to what I believed from the start, an intruder.
They were also claiming his story didn't make sense. I would like to know what exactly didn't make sense, since it appears he was in fact telling the truth.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
They left their DNA behind so if it was the boyfriend we will know soon enough. If not, it sure was a determined and bold intruder.
What would you call David Westerfield? How many adults were not only home but awake when he went in the Van Dam's house? Or Richard Speck? Or Ted Bundy? He dragged a 12 year old girl out of a school in front of a security guard. I'm only illustrating the fact that there's no shortage of audacity.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
If mom left for work after it happened I think it is odd. Where did she think the dog went? What about all of the blood in the trailer and on the porch? And she never looked in on the kids before she left?

I think it is more likely it happened after she left. But maybe I am jaded.
That's not jaded, that's logical.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:27 AM
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I understand. I am not saying they were guilty of anything. Just trying to understand how this crime happened, given the weird circumstances.
I really dont think we quite ever understand how these crimes happen since we discuss it everytime a child is harmed in their own home by a predator or kidnapped from their own homes by one.

But what we all should realize by now whether we understand how it could have happened or not... is it DOES happen and no one in the home was the wiser.

IMO
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:30 AM
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They were also claiming his story didn't make sense. I would like to know what exactly didn't make sense, since it appears he was in fact telling the truth.
Maybe it didnt make sense to LE because they were so blindly sure he was the prepretrator and had only tunnel vision. Evidently it did make sense since another creep's DNA was found on this poor child who was viciously raped.

It didnt make sense because they were trying to pin it on him, imo.

IMO
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:35 AM
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This story is horrendous. I wish LE could be sued for false arrest in this case. What makes me so furious is the normal 'defense' is "the evidence pointed to him". Well no it did not. It clearly did not. He was innocent so it could not have pointed to him. The evidence pointed to what I believed from the start, an intruder.
He can sue the police department and I am certainly not the kind that believes in being sue happy but if LE dared lock me up without any evidence for 13 weeks of my life I would sue their pants off.

Not only taking the freedom away from an innocent man but accusing him falsely of the worst crime imaginable.

I hope he does sue so that this police department will think twice before they ever do this thing again to another innocent person.

IMO
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  #624  
Old 08-02-2012, 08:14 PM
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CPS does not need a reason to take your children. All they need is an excuse.

Here's one:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/ny...pagewanted=all

Here's another:
http://www.rd.com/advice/parenting/p...f-child-abuse/


Here's one that lost their kids because of the children's names:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26...says-no-abuse/


Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
The only way I can imagine that DHS would have a case is if this perp had been invited into the trailer that night and they all drank or got high together. And if Mom and Tommy went to bed and passed out, and the perp came back and snuck in, etc, then maybe that is why they are saying there was negligence. Just speculating..
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by EXIA15145 View Post
CPS does not need a reason to take your children. All they need is an excuse.

Here's one:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/ny...pagewanted=all

Here's another:
http://www.rd.com/advice/parenting/p...f-child-abuse/


Here's one that lost their kids because of the children's names:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26...says-no-abuse/
I'm not quite sure why you listed the first and third links - the first deals with a horribly battered child (from the discussion of her injuries that caused her death, including a broken skull from two horrific blows), and parents hateful enough to name their children Aryan Nation and Adolph Hitler - I think CPS was well within their rights to go after both sets of parents.

I can't really tell what's going on in the middle link. Sometimes, there are medical conditions that are the cause of a child looking battered, but CPS would be remiss not to look into these cases carefully.
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