Moors Murderers - Page 5

Inge Jones · #**101** 08-17-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisces Cloud

Then to go and give the letter back to him, how insensitive towards Keith's family is that? She must have known they'd find out about it.

She might have been wiser not to accept it in the first place, but having given her word to deal with the letter in a particular way, I support her right to keep her word and give it back when she could no longer do so. I am of course sorry for Keith's mother, but I am also fairly firm in my beliefs that a lawyer should be allowed to deal with his client's affairs privately for as long as that professional relationship lasts. In her place though I might have told him that guarding a letter like that was outside the range of duties she was prepared to perform. Until or unless the police have any evidence that the letter contained details that might have helped with the lawful burial of a body I believe they are overstepping their mark in arresting her on those grounds.

I don't like the authorities using public sentiment to gradually erode our rights.

wfgodot · #**102** 08-17-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inge Jones

She might have been wiser not to accept it in the first place, but having given her word to deal with the letter in a particular way, I support her right to keep her word and give it back when she could no longer do so. I am of course sorry for Keith's mother, but I am also fairly firm in my beliefs that a lawyer should be allowed to deal with his client's affairs privately for as long as that professional relationship lasts. In her place though I might have told him that guarding a letter like that was outside the range of duties she was prepared to perform. Until or unless the police have any evidence that the letter contained details that might have helped with the lawful burial of a body I believe they are overstepping their mark in arresting her on those grounds.

I don't like the authorities using public sentiment to gradually erode our rights.

A point well-taken. I would think that, ultimately, the matter rests with whether or not there is client-advocate privilege; if so she has no need to explain herself. If not, handing the letter back to a serial killer instead of going to authorities - as this must have caused her some suspicion about the letter's contents - is rum business indeed.

Pisces Cloud · #**103** 08-17-2012, 02:49 PM

I don't think she's a lawyer, though. Also, if she was bound by confidentiality then why did she tell the documentary makers? That's why I find it so insensitive because the family were obviously going to find all this out, and at a time when Keith's mum is seriously ill.

Inge Jones · #**104** 08-17-2012, 03:08 PM

I thought advocate was like a lawyer, but I agree she shouldn't make tv shows about her clients without the client's permission. Her conduct seems fairly unprofessional from the little I have heard about her so far.

Pisces Cloud · #**105** 08-17-2012, 03:16 PM

According to the BBC she's his mental health advocate.

wfgodot · #**106** 08-17-2012, 03:40 PM

Must recommend Daily Mail's page on this subject: the photgraphs, the key dates, the timeline, and the two sidebars, one a partial transcript of Jackie Powell's on-screen appearance on the C4 documentary, the other covering Brady's snub of authorities nine years ago and a look at Saddleworth Moor. From the second sidebar:

Quote:

---
Police were convinced the clue to finding Keith's body - likely to still be preserved in the peat of Saddleworth Moor - were photographs that Brady took of Hindley at the crime scenes.
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A remote area known as Shiny Brook, stretching up to five square miles, was identified from the photographs and was notable because it was up to a mile away from the burial sites of the other bodies.

But nothing was found.
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Mr Heywood dismissed theories that Brady would not know the location of Keith's body because of the passage of time, or fears that the moorland peat would have shifted over the decades and moved its location.
---

ScotsPaddy · #**107** 08-17-2012, 03:47 PM

I think shes just basically a named representative?
http://www.mind.org.uk/help/rights_a...de_to_advocacy

Pisces Cloud · #**108** 08-18-2012, 05:42 AM

Sadly, Keith's mother died last night. May she now rest in peace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-19305055

BritsKate · #**109** 08-18-2012, 05:48 AM

My solace in her passing is that she is with her son now. I truly hope there is a special place in hell for Brady. No mother should be forced to live decades with not knowing where their child is.

josie1986 · #**110** 08-18-2012, 06:34 AM

i burst into tears reading that,poor winnie.

at least she is with keith now and both at peace

R.I.P Winnie

josie1986 · #**111** 08-18-2012, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BritsKate

My solace in her passing is that she is with her son now. I truly hope there is a special place in hell for Brady. No mother should be forced to live decades with not knowing where their child is.

i think hell is too good for him.

Duckiegirl · #**112** 08-18-2012, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inge Jones

I thought advocate was like a lawyer, but I agree she shouldn't make tv shows about her clients without the client's permission. Her conduct seems fairly unprofessional from the little I have heard about her so far.

No she's a mental health advocate, not a legal advocate. If they know something illegal is going on they are still obliged to tell the police.

rachaellouise · #**113** 08-18-2012, 08:57 AM

I wish nothing short of death for this man. He is a sick and depraved individual who should be left to rot.

BritsKate · #**114** 08-18-2012, 09:02 AM

I don't know this woman's personal history but my husband said some mental health advocates are actually past service users themselves. FWIW he's an RMN.

wfgodot · #**115** 08-18-2012, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Keith's brother, Alan Bennett, issued a family statement about his mother's death on his website, Searching for Keith. It said: "Winnie fought tirelessly for decades to find Keith and give him a Christian burial. Although this was not possible during her lifetime, we, her family, intend to continue this fight now for her and for Keith. We hope that the authorities and the public will support us in this."

Does leave one a bit teary.

complete Guardian article on Winnie Johnson's death here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/au...?newsfeed=true

NancyA · #**116** 08-18-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inge Jones

She might have been wiser not to accept it in the first place, but having given her word to deal with the letter in a particular way, I support her right to keep her word and give it back when she could no longer do so. I am of course sorry for Keith's mother, but I am also fairly firm in my beliefs that a lawyer should be allowed to deal with his client's affairs privately for as long as that professional relationship lasts. In her place though I might have told him that guarding a letter like that was outside the range of duties she was prepared to perform. Until or unless the police have any evidence that the letter contained details that might have helped with the lawful burial of a body I believe they are overstepping their mark in arresting her on those grounds.

I don't like the authorities using public sentiment to gradually erode our rights.

BBM If she had said that she suspected the letter may contain Brady's mother's secret family recipe for Irish stew the police may have had no probable cause to arrest her but she didn't she said she suspected the letter may contain information about the unlawful burial of a body in which case she had a duty to hand it over to the authorities. Even lawyers are not allowed to withhold information which may lead to the prevention of a crime on behalf of their clients.

And you do have a point about eroded rights but I’m not sure which valuable right is being eroded here. The right to enable a serial killer to repeatedly torment the families of his victims by going on tv to talk about letters he's entrusted to one and hinting they may contain info leading to the recovery of the remains it while standing on the ‘client confidentiality clause’? Or perhaps the right to make oneself an accessory after the fact in said serial killer’s commission of the crime of illegally concealing a body? Either way they’re not freedoms I would gladly storm parliament in support of but each to his/her own, I suppose.

wfgodot · #**117** 08-18-2012, 02:41 PM

Two Daily Mail articles about Winnie, and the case:

Taunted by Brady to the very end: Moors murder victim's mother
Winnie dies still not knowing the final resting place of son Keith Bennett

The tragic life of Winnie Johnson who refused to give up in the search for her son's body

greenfingers · #**118** 08-18-2012, 04:03 PM

rest in peace winnie,you are now reunited with you son kieth even tho it tookmany many years xxx

Maiko · #**119** 08-18-2012, 07:21 PM

I wasn't familiar with this case until late last night (someone mentioned it in another thread). I read late into the night, I couldn't stop reading my mind was spinning! I went to bed hoping I'd come here today to see that Winnie had finally learned where her precious son was - but it wasn't to be. My heart breaks.

I pray they are now together.

Wondergirl · #**120** 08-18-2012, 07:44 PM

Where is Keith, you murdering SOB Brady?

Rest in Peace, Winnie Johnson.

I am sorry you died not knowing where your son was.

A website run by Keith's brother:

www.searchingforkeith.com

wfgodot · #**121** 08-18-2012, 11:49 PM

Quote:

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Despite her serious condition, Winnie said she would be “on top of the world” if Brady gave up his final secret.

She added: “It would mean my dying wish had come true and we had finally got Keith home.

“I don’t give a sh/t about Brady any more. I am running out of time and just want to bring my son home.

“But I feel in my heart he won’t ever tell me. He hasn’t shown the slightest bit of remorse. I can’t see why he has done this to me.”
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And she said that if she ever saw him, she would “stab him from top to bottom.”
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more here, at the Sun:

Brady will never tell me where Keith is ... it’s his final sick twist:
Last Interview with Moors victim's mum

Sunday Mirror's account:

"All the other mothers of Brady and Hindley’s victims have died.
I can’t die yet": What Moors mum said before she passed away

Sunday Express: Ian Brady's Last Victim

Pisces Cloud · #**122** 08-19-2012, 04:33 AM

Hindley's brother-in-law, the guy who blew the whistle, died not long ago too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obit...vid-Smith.html

wfgodot · #**123** 08-19-2012, 04:04 PM

Mother's death 'not Keith closure' (UKPA)

Quote:

Keith Bennett will remain "in the possession" of Moors murderers Ian Brady and Myra Hindley until his body is found, the victim's brother has said.

Alan Bennett said the death of his mother, Winnie, 78, on Saturday must not be seen as closure to the case as the family vowed to continue the fight to locate the remains of the 12-year-old.
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The closest Mrs Johnson came to giving him a funeral was to hold a memorial service at Manchester Cathedral two years ago at which she tearfully told the congregation: "I'm Keith's mother ... he's there on the Moors, I want him back."
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