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  #126  
Old 08-20-2012, 03:30 AM
Inge Jones Inge Jones is offline
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It is sad, but his family should believe he has been resting in peace ever since he died. He was an innocent child and his soul will have been taken care of well, if you believe anything at all can happen to a soul. His body has been buried in a fashion, and prayers have been said for him.

But in the bigger picture, funds should not be taken away from people who can still be helped, in order to find a skeleton that has been at peace for many years already. Ideally the time to have spent money of helping Keith and his family was when Brady and Hindley were first beginning to show signs of not being normal. There is never enough help for people in the earlier stages of their aberrations, before the offences occur.
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  #127  
Old 08-20-2012, 04:02 AM
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this sticks in the craw

Police waited two weeks to act after being told of Ian Brady letter (Independent)
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During filming for a Channel 4 documentary due to be aired this evening, Ms Powell speculated that the contents of the letter might reveal the exact location on Saddleworth Moor, near Oldham in Lancashire, where Brady buried Keith after strangling him with a piece of string.

However, it has now emerged that producers of the documentary waited 10 days before passing on their knowledge of the letter to Greater Manchester Police, who took a further two weeks to arrest Ms Powell on suspicion of preventing the lawful burial of a body.
---
more at the link
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  #128  
Old 08-20-2012, 08:14 AM
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A TV documentary about Moors murderer Ian Brady will air with the approval of Winnie Johnson's family, broadcaster Channel 4 has confirmed.
---
In a statement, Channel 4 said: "This documentary will be airing tonight as planned following consultation with Winnie Johnson's family and with their approval. There will be tweaks to reflect Winnie's sad passing but otherwise the film will remain unchanged."
---
more here: Family approves Brady documentary
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  #129  
Old 08-20-2012, 08:25 AM
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Ian Brady advocate Jackie Powell still not seen by neighbours (This is South Wales)
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Miles Howells, Ms Powell’s next door neighbour, told the Post there has been hostility in the area since the link to the notorious murder.

The 22-year-old said: “Since the news broke she has not been back at all. It really has been crazy here over the past few days, and hostile.

“People have been coming past and screaming stuff at the house. It is such a sensitive case.”
---
more at the link
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  #130  
Old 08-20-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Inge Jones View Post
It is sad, but his family should believe he has been resting in peace ever since he died. He was an innocent child and his soul will have been taken care of well, if you believe anything at all can happen to a soul. His body has been buried in a fashion, and prayers have been said for him.

But in the bigger picture, funds should not be taken away from people who can still be helped, in order to find a skeleton that has been at peace for many years already. Ideally the time to have spent money of helping Keith and his family was when Brady and Hindley were first beginning to show signs of not being normal. There is never enough help for people in the earlier stages of their aberrations, before the offences occur.
I disagree, it's no trivial thing to give some comfort to the family of victims, who are second-hand victims themselves, the pain will never cease for them. Of course it won't help Keith now, but the killer withholding the body from the family is his sick bit of remaining control over them. The area they need to search isn't huge, so I don't see how it could cost much for authorities to help with the search.
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  #131  
Old 08-20-2012, 12:19 PM
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For the mother, while she was alive, yes. And I believe the police were making efforts while she was alive. But I don't believe the rest of the family have the same emotional needs in this respect. I think now it's about carrying on Winnie's quest out of respect for her. That is noble of course, but isn't "victim's needs" in quite the same way as Winnie had victim needs. I think this is an appropriate time to decide it's enough. I certainly don't want some poor foolish advocate put through a costly court case and possibly costly jail sentence just for being an unprofessional idiot, on top of all the other costs. She's already made herself look enough of a fool to have damaged the potential profits from any book or movie.
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  #132  
Old 08-20-2012, 12:48 PM
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Keith was one of 6 children (including a step-sister), who also had to deal with the pain of losing him, which must have been every bit as intense for them as for their mother. On top of this, they are also mourning their mother, and knowing that Brady won and Winnie never found peace. It's probably even more painful for them at this moment in time than ever before. In addition, Keith must have had loads of aunts, uncles, cousins and friends who miss him terribly and want to say goodbye. It's very insensitive to just dismiss the whole cause just because the mother is now dead, this is what the family are begging for not to happen. Winnie was the public face of the search and probably held them all together, the family's morale will be very low at this moment in time, knowing that there are people like you who suddenly think finding him is no longer important, and that their chances of finding him are lower than ever now people don't care any more. Hence referring to keeping going for their mother, which is probably a battle cry so that the family don't lose the strength needed to keep going with the search. It's only the family's place to decide when the time is right to give up.

Last edited by squish; 08-20-2012 at 12:50 PM. Reason: Typo
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  #133  
Old 08-20-2012, 03:23 PM
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I imagine Ian Brady would be quite unhappy if Keith's remains were found, which is a second reason I fervently hope they are found and soon.

The family is, of course, the first reason. I've seen enough comments from victim's family's to know that not being able to lay them to rest as the family wishes is not a minor issue for them, but a deeply traumatic one.

I do see Inge's point. I wonder if a private foundation or group might be able to pay for the continued searches?
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  #134  
Old 08-20-2012, 07:48 PM
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Yes, Brady would loathe for others to find Keith. I watched the documentary tonight and Brady is obsessed with power, control and "winning" his battles. He has been on a hunger strike protest for this reason for the past 13 years - if he gives up "they" will have won. I hope they manage to drag his life out for as long as possible, because every day they keep him alive, Brady doesn't "win". He despises authority, loves his notoriety, is proud to have zero remorse and has spent his time in prison constantly fighting legal battles etc just to make a point because he hates authority so much. He thinks of himself as highly intelligent, and loves to trick psychologists and be cleverer than them, hence the mind games. Keeping Keith's location a secret is a final bit of power he can have over his victims, and the public. The documentary also showed how important it is for the families of all the victims that Keith is found - they need the closure too.

I saw a programme "the science of decay" a few weeks ago, they found 200-year old unmarked graves in a cemetery by measuring electrolyte levels in the soil. This new technology could be a new hope for finding Keith, as his body is thought to be well preserved in the peat. I wonder if the family know of this method? I wonder if they can be contacted? Their website seems to be down.

Last edited by squish; 08-20-2012 at 07:51 PM. Reason: typo and to add another comment
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  #135  
Old 08-21-2012, 06:43 AM
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The areas in question don't seem that big for searching.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Moors_murders_map.jpg
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  #136  
Old 08-22-2012, 02:08 PM
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Interesting article here about a young PC at the time of the murders wo was involved in the subsequent hunt for the kidnappers/killers, and the effect the case has had, both personally and professionally, on him:

My role in infamous murder case (Bermuda Sun)
Quote:
---
“I was based with C Division at the time and we covered the area where most of Brady and Hindley’s victims were snatched.

“We did not have many radios back then. Thousands of people were living back-to-back in large high rises and as a police officer you had to fend for yourself and learn the hard way.

“Brady and Hindley were living right in the community while they were committing these crimes. And I have often wondered how many times they could have driven past me while I was on patrol in places like Gorton or Longsight in that mini-van they used to kidnap the children.”
---
much more at link above
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  #137  
Old 08-24-2012, 11:07 PM
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Ian Brady letter about victim's place of burial remains elusive, police say (Guardian)
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Greater Manchester police say they have so far been unable to find a letter from the Moors murderer, Ian Brady, addressed to Winnie Johnson and revealing the location of her son's body.
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In a statement issued on Friday, Greater Manchester police said the action taken on 16 August when Brady's mental health advocate was arrested formed "part of an ongoing criminal investigation".

"Therefore it would be inappropriate to discuss any aspect of that investigation until it is concluded," the statement said. "While Greater Manchester police accepts there is significant media and public interest in both the investigation and the possible existence of the alleged letter, we would ask for patience and for the integrity of the investigation to remain unimpeded."

The statement said once the investigation had been concluded, the force would be in a position to comment further.
---
more at the link above
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  #138  
Old 08-24-2012, 11:31 PM
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There.s a very good full length Documentry about this case and the moore code on you tube..
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  #139  
Old 08-25-2012, 02:47 PM
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Not a bad article from Felicity A. Morse in Huffington Post:

What Shall We Do About Ian Brady?
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---
Arguments to 'bring back the death penalty' and 'not give Brady what he wants' are flawed by their motivation. Hanging a noose round Brady's neck or shoving a tube into Brady's stomach just because we're angry isn't good enough. Emotion should never be given a place in law.

Punishment is not revenge and a prison sentence can't be couched in such simplistic terms. After all, one of the major purposes of prison is surely to protect society, and revenge is one of the most destructive forces there is.

Killers like Brady challenge our conception of criminal law. It's purpose is to protect life, not end it.
---
the rest at the link above

Also, Daily Mail has a feature article - an excerpt from a forthcoming book - about that other peroxide blonde killer, Ruth Ellis, the last woman in Britain to hang; one might almost say that she died so that Myra Hindley did not have to:

Callous and blinded by lust, the men who killed Ruth Ellis as surely as the hangman

Recommended.
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  #140  
Old 08-25-2012, 09:51 PM
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from solicitor David Kirwan's notes in interviews with Brady in 2006

"I'll show you Keith's grave is if I can kill myself": Twisted deal Moors murderer tried to strike with police (Sunday Mirror)
Quote:
---
Brady referred to the continuing hunt for Keith’s body, which has been going on since he vanished in June 1964, as “meaningless”.
---
“I will show you the way. I will direct the police. But what is it you want me to say to them? He’s five miles in, two hills on the left? Second hill from the north as the crow flies?

“It’s not a simple operation. And what am I to gain from all this? Why should I waste my time?”
---
He demanded that it should be West Yorkshire Police who took him to the Moors and not the Greater Manchester force. He said there should be no involvement by staff from Ashworth hospital. Finally, he insisted he should be moved to a prison afterwards and be allowed to starve himself to death.
---
“Trowel searching on the moor is grotesque,” he said. “It is barbaric.” Then, with a low laugh, added: “That’s comical of course, coming from me.”
---
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  #141  
Old 08-26-2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by reportertype View Post
I imagine Ian Brady would be quite unhappy if Keith's remains were found, which is a second reason I fervently hope they are found and soon.

The family is, of course, the first reason. I've seen enough comments from victim's family's to know that not being able to lay them to rest as the family wishes is not a minor issue for them, but a deeply traumatic one.

I do see Inge's point. I wonder if a private foundation or group might be able to pay for the continued searches?
The family strongly believe that the State should pay for searches for Keith - the official website has a lot of new and up to date information about the cases and is managed by Keith's family: http://searchingforkeith.forumcircle.com/
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  #142  
Old 08-27-2012, 08:17 PM
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I don't think there ever was any such letter. No way Brady would have even the slightest compassion for anyone. I'm looking forward to the documentary, though, and I'm so glad to hear Mr. Brady doesn't feel adequately appreciated at the hospital.
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  #143  
Old 10-28-2012, 12:42 PM
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Myra Hindley and David Astor: a complex relationship revealed in letters (Observer)
The private letters, sent between David Astor and Myra Hindley for 20 years, that provide a study
in the liberal belief in redemption and an eerie insight into the mind of Britain's most notorious lifer
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  #144  
Old 10-30-2012, 04:17 PM
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The thing is about HIndley, is that she claimed to have changed and was no longer a danger and saw the evil of what she had done. However she knew full well the victims (because the families are victims too) wanted her to stay in prison and would ahve been destroyed if she had been released. So why campaign to get out if she were a good person, if I suddenly realised I had done the most evil thing possible and all I could do for the victims was stay in prison, then I would stay there.
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  #145  
Old 04-29-2013, 04:22 PM
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Hello Iam hoping someone can give me a quick rundown iam pretty new to this case and i just watched a movie Longford about this and went to youtube and google but cant quite get the exact things i need to know so if you could i woudl be greatfull for some of the awnsers to my questions ...

1. What and Where is the Moors is it a town a field ?
2.Is the so called code only that they say myira had her pic taken on the grave site is that the whole code. It's not like a letter kinda deal such as like the zodiac did or BTK.
3.Is Ian Brady dead as of today monday/April/29/2013/
4.Is there really a tape like brady says there is in the movie longford.
5.As of today have they found keith's grave site
6.Are thier any other cases of missing boys/girls even adults that they are guilty of.

Thats all I can think of feel free to elaborate and if anyone can awnser those thank you so much...It's a very interesting case .Oh the doc U. Does it have a name .Have any of you seen Longford if so what did u think is it a good acount of happenings at the time..
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  #146  
Old 04-29-2013, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CanManEh View Post
Hello Iam hoping someone can give me a quick rundown iam pretty new to this case and i just watched a movie Longford about this and went to youtube and google but cant quite get the exact things i need to know so if you could i woudl be greatfull for some of the awnsers to my questions ...

1. What and Where is the Moors is it a town a field ?
2.Is the so called code only that they say myira had her pic taken on the grave site is that the whole code. It's not like a letter kinda deal such as like the zodiac did or BTK.
3.Is Ian Brady dead as of today monday/April/29/2013/
4.Is there really a tape like brady says there is in the movie longford.
5.As of today have they found keith's grave site
6.Are thier any other cases of missing boys/girls even adults that they are guilty of.

Thats all I can think of feel free to elaborate and if anyone can awnser those thank you so much...It's a very interesting case .Oh the doc U. Does it have a name .Have any of you seen Longford if so what did u think is it a good acount of happenings at the time..
Saddleworth Moor (Wiki)

As of today Ian Brady still lives, and as of today Keith Bennett's grave site has not been found.

Haven't seen 'Longford' so I'm not familiar with what tape Brady refers to there. There is an audio tape of the torture of Lesley Ann Downey.
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  #147  
Old 04-29-2013, 04:32 PM
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Thanks for some of the awnsers wfgodot.
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  #148  
Old 05-18-2013, 09:49 AM
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The best place to find answers to your questions is over at the official website
http://searchingforkeith.com/
There's a timeline of events there and lots of information.
Ian Brady will be having his hearing in June 2013 as he wishes to move from the psychiatric hospital Ashworth to a "normal" prison so he can refuse food and die. At the moment as he is a patient in a hospital he is tube fed.
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  #149  
Old 06-15-2013, 05:51 PM
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Will this photo finally lead police to Keith Bennett's grave? Chilling image of killer
Brady 40 miles from where Moors Murders detectives have searched for 50 years
.(Daily Mail)
Quote:
The body of Moors Murder victim Keith Bennett may have been buried nearly 40 miles from Saddleworth Moor, the focus of the search for his remains up to now, according to a forthcoming TV documentary.

The programme claims that photographs taken by Myra Hindley and Ian Brady as ‘grave markers’ during their killing spree show a Staffordshire beauty spot called Ramshaw Rocks.

Now experts are calling on police to search the site in case it is the 12-year-old’s final resting place.
---
more, with pics, at the link
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  #150  
Old 06-15-2013, 07:15 PM
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Since the first child murders occurred when Britain was still utilizing the death penalty, how about making use of a grandfather clause?
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