PA PA - Bedford, 'Mr. Bones' WhtMale 30-35, 585UMPA, 30-06 rifle, gold dental wk, camping equip, Oct'58

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Maybe someone might remember him with a wife or a child.
 
Ms. Suzanne, that is as good a guess as any at this point. He may have left a family, someone who might see the sketch and ask to submit dna.
With the Halloween season coming, I may try to get a major NYC newspaper to run something on Mr. Bones. It is certainly a properly macabre story for the season.
Anyone have any advice or opinion on how to proceed?
 
Reality Orlando said:
From the above link:

"Cause of death was a gunshot wound that shattered his skull, but whether it was an accident, suicide or homicide remains unknown. Investigators learned that the rifle had been shipped to a store in Fort Wayne, IN in 1938 but there were no records indicating who had purchased the gun." Maybe another link?
Click to expand...

The reference to the evidence rifle having been shipped to a gun store in 1938 is incorrect - at least the date is not right.

The origional case summary on Doenetwork indicated that the rifle was a Springfield chambered in .30-06. When posted here on Websleuths, there was much discussion about that particular Army rifle.

I personally spoke with the case officer in Pennsylvania, and he told me (in 2005) that the rifle was actually listed on inventory as a "Model 721A".

The only firearms company that made a model 721A was Remington Arms Company of Ilion, NY. It was a bolt action rifle chambered for the 30-06 Springfield cartridge (probably explaining the misinterpretation by the press that is was a Springfield rifle). This rife normally could hold four rounds in the magazine, had a 24 inch barrel, and weighed 7 and a quarter pounds.

The Remington 721A was made between 1948 and 1962 inclusive. So it could hardly have been shipped or sold in 1938. It may have been traced to a store in Fort Wayne, Indiana - but not any earlier than 1948.

In fact, if it was determined what the correct dates of that rifle's manufacture and shipment were, it might provide a better track and timeline for Mr. Bones. For instance, if the rifle were new, and the actual shipping date was early 1958 (vice 1938), then it would mean he was in Fort Wayne, Indiana some time after that date.
 
That is interesting info, Richard. Unfortunately, with Mr. Bones every answer seems to lead to another question.
One of the replies on the Levy's blog (link above) suggested our old friend Weldon Kees as a match!

Anyone know how to find old NYC City Directories from 56 to 58? I'd like a crack at that 195 Avenue A address.
 
If I may please say on Porchlight board it says Weldon Kees has been ruled out by the Doenetwork as a match to Mr Bones.I'm not sure how accurate it is or how or why he was ruled out. DNA?
 
Ms Suzanne said:
If I may please say on Porchlight board it says Weldon Kees has been ruled out by the Doenetwork as a match to Mr Bones.I'm not sure how accurate it is or how or why he was ruled out. DNA?
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I think that from his photos Kees may have been a much smaller man than Mr. Bones. Full DNA from Mr. Bones was apparently recovered and maybe they did try a match with a relative of Weldon Kees. I don't know.
 
Magnum P.E. said:
Not exactly an earthshattering break in the case, but with great difficulty I have IDed Mr. Bones's mess kit as a Kiffe Kook-it. The Kiffe Company was located at 523 Broadway, NYC. This kit is apparently relatively uncommon. It is much like the kind that the Boy Scouts used, very different from military mess kits. I don't know if Kiffe made any for the Boy Scouts but kits by Regal and other makers all look pretty much identical. Kiffe sold knives, bayonets, and many different sporting goods some by mail order catalogue. Old sales records would be nice but I ain't holding my breath for any to show up. They don't seem to have survived the 70s, and a shoe store occupies their old address.
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Interesting information about the mess kit. It would seem that the Kiffe Company was a sporting goods retail store rather than a maker of camping equipment.

I would strongly suspect that they did not actually manufacture the mess kit found with Mr. Bones, but that rather it was made by a company that specialized in aluminum camping wares (such as Palco, WearEver, and Regal, etc.) and stamped with the Kiffe name. This sort of thing was done very often back in the 1950's and to some extent today as well.

Some manufacturers actually specialize in producing "Trade Name" goods. For instance, most lawn mowers produced for Sears, Pennys, Hechingers, Southern States, etc are all made by the MTD corporation. Each might have a slightly diffent feature or two and a different paint job and logo, but all are essentially the same.

Certain firearms companies like Mossberg and Stevens made rifles and shotguns under trade names like: J.C. Higgins, Revelation, Westernfield, Ranger, Coast to Coast, etc.

This sort of thing could also be seen regarding the Boy Scout equipment. the BSA logo is put on various camping and uniform items to make it "Official Scouting Equipment", but all of the companies which are contracted by the Boy Scout organization to supply it also market the exact same items under their own manufacturer name or under other logos for other stores or organizations.

The fact that it was marked as a "Kiffe" mess kit would make this a more localized clue and would tend to support the theory that he had come recently from New York - especially in light of the Kiffe store address being close to "195 A Avenue".

Most mess kits would turn black when used to cook food. Cleaning them would certainly scratch them up. Was this mess kit actually well used, or was it new? If new, it would mean that he was not long out of New York.
 
Magnum P.E. said:
This one is right in my area and I never heard of Mr. Bones before.

OK, the key leads us to a keymaker in New York City. The inscription on the key is the keymaker's address.

No ID in wallet, no labels in clothes, weapon on the spot. This all says suicide to me.

Dental work and especially contact lenses says he had money.

The lenses came from the Chicago area.

The poetry books say educated.

Dressing in dungarees and motorcycle jacket says a guy trying to look like a motorcyclist, or really a motorcyclist.

LE seems pretty certain of the spring 1958 time of death. They must have had some way to feel that the remains had not "wintered over".

I collect leather jackets, and a real motorcycle jacket is protective gear. It is in fact very thick, heavy and uncomfortable to wear. The arms have a distinctive curve, in order to be comfortable in the riding position. There are a LOT of jackets styled that way for poseurs but thinner, straight armed, and not protective in a crash. I wish I had a good look at that jacket. For what it's worth, I wear a thick true motorcycle jacket for riding only in cool weather (and not for anything else), and one of my A2 pilot jackets (I also fly) when it is warm. They are very very different in construction and appearance. With no pic I will assume that the investigators in 1958 knew a motorcycle jacket from one of the many A-2s around after WWII.

There were only a few motorcycle jacket makers in 1958, one of whom is still a family business in NYC, Schott. They have helped me ID vintage jackets before. If this guy was a motorcyclist OR a poseur, and he had enough money for contacts, without even seeing the jacket I bet he had a Schott Perfecto.

I ride an old Triumph, and British bikes of his time had the shifter on the right and brake on the left as mine does. The opposite of modern bikes. Most American bikes (not all) had a hand shift and foot clutch, leaving no distinctive wear pattern on the boots. If he was truly a rider, his right boot might show a wear spot on the top over the right big toe, because you shift up that way. I favor old army jungle boots for riding, and all my old boots have wear in that pattern.
The body was found 1/2 mile from a rest stop on the PA Turnpike. He well could have hitchhiked there, hence no vehicle.

I would look for a big guy missing from a well to do family in Chicago or New York City at about that time. We may be down to DNA again (sigh). Hope this is of some help. Dang would I like to see that jacket.
Click to expand...

Quote
No ID in wallet, no labels in clothes, weapon on the spot. This all says suicide to me.



It says a Hit or cover up to me.
 
I looked up the last name Bratsos.It is from I believe Greece.It's European like possibly Mr Bones.
 
Richard said:
Interesting information about the mess kit. It would seem that the Kiffe Company was a sporting goods retail store rather than a maker of camping equipment.

I would strongly suspect that they did not actually manufacture the mess kit found with Mr. Bones, but that rather it was made by a company that specialized in aluminum camping wares (such as Palco, WearEver, and Regal, etc.) and stamped with the Kiffe name. This sort of thing was done very often back in the 1950's and to some extent today as well.

Some manufacturers actually specialize in producing "Trade Name" goods. For instance, most lawn mowers produced for Sears, Pennys, Hechingers, Southern States, etc are all made by the MTD corporation. Each might have a slightly diffent feature or two and a different paint job and logo, but all are essentially the same.

Certain firearms companies like Mossberg and Stevens made rifles and shotguns under trade names like: J.C. Higgins, Revelation, Westernfield, Ranger, Coast to Coast, etc.

This sort of thing could also be seen regarding the Boy Scout equipment. the BSA logo is put on various camping and uniform items to make it "Official Scouting Equipment", but all of the companies which are contracted by the Boy Scout organization to supply it also market the exact same items under their own manufacturer name or under other logos for other stores or organizations.

The fact that it was marked as a "Kiffe" mess kit would make this a more localized clue and would tend to support the theory that he had come recently from New York - especially in light of the Kiffe store address being close to "195 A Avenue".

Most mess kits would turn black when used to cook food. Cleaning them would certainly scratch them up. Was this mess kit actually well used, or was it new? If new, it would mean that he was not long out of New York.
Click to expand...

His mess kit looks pretty new. Pix of it are on several sites but only one allowed me to zoom in close enough to see the name stamped in it. I agree with you that Kiffe probably did not make those, but ordered them from the same manufacturer that everyone else did. Kiffe, so far as I know, had only one store, the one on Broadway. They DID sell by mail order, but the two addresses being so close.....
I really need a look at old NYC directories. I'd like to see who lived at 195 Avenue A back then. I may stop and see a friend who is a librarian, maybe I can get something on inter-library loan. Wish those were online but it would be a lot of work to scan them I know.
I sent a letter to a woman who has lived in Greenwich Village since that time and who knew all the Beat writers - Kerouac, Ginsburg, Burroughs - on the off chance that she knew someone like that who left and was not seen again. No reply yet, and I for some reason I don't think I will hear from her.
 
Ms Suzanne said:
Quote
No ID in wallet, no labels in clothes, weapon on the spot. This all says suicide to me.



It says a Hit or cover up to me.
Click to expand...

Well, if we identify him, and eventually we will, he may well be that unusual case where his identity becomes known but the mode of death is not.
I am pretty sure he was shot at close range and had powder burns or something embedded in his skull. If he did not have burns, LE would INSTANTLY have ruled out suicide or accident and said homicide. No one shoots himself with a rifle from far enough away to not have burns or particles in them. So that leaves homicide at close range, suicide, or accident (tripped over something while carrying rifle unsafely).
You will find sometimes that suicides remove clothing labels and all ID, almost like they are erasing themselves from the human race, maybe sparing a family the knowledge of what happened. I don't know. If he were "hit" for some reason, I don't know why the weapon would be left there with two rounds in it, but time taken to remove clothing labels. An accident would not explain removing the labels and no ID. Either case could well be, but I am looking for the simplest explanation that satisfies known facts, because that is is also the likeliest explanation. Occam's Razor.
But lets face it, there is always some weird circumstance, something that does not make sense, that causes a case to end up here with us going around and around........
 
It may not have been a Hit.But I do believe it was homicide.He was possibly killed on purpose.Why I don't know.
 
May I please ask if anyone knows or can find out where and when this encounter with the police happened.Was it at the same area or around where he was found. Who were these police officers?One or two of them? I believe he died in September 1957.



Was the 1957 date correct of when the police encountered this man? Is there still a police report on that incident?or none was made?

From NAMUS

Prior to the victim's discovery, in September 1957, local police in Bedford Borough encountered a loitering man in possession of a rifle; this unidentified man said he was enroute from Kentucky to Canada.



https://identifyus.org/en/cases/full_report/8011
 
Ms. Suzanne, Jimmy Bratsos was only slightly outside the height/weight range of Mr. Bones (especially considering that Mr. Bones's height/weight are estimated), reasonably close geographically, and his disappearance fits time wise. He also may have had good reason to be camping in the wilderness. I have never heard him mentioned as a match for Mr. Bones before. Seeing as they have prints but no dentals for Jimmy Bratsos, and dentals and dna but no prints for Mr. B, they may have to get a Jimmy Bratsos relative to give dna to try to match.

Good work. I'd submit it.
 
Magnum P.E. said:
Ms. Suzanne, Jimmy Bratsos was only slightly outside the height/weight range of Mr. Bones (especially considering that Mr. Bones's height/weight are estimated), reasonably close geographically, and his disappearance fits time wise. He also may have had good reason to be camping in the wilderness. I have never heard him mentioned as a match for Mr. Bones before. Seeing as they have prints but no dentals for Jimmy Bratsos, and dentals and dna but no prints for Mr. B, they may have to get a Jimmy Bratsos relative to give dna to try to match.

Good work. I'd submit it.
Click to expand...

Thank You so much.You are very nice.
 
Can someone please turn this in for me. I tried to email. But it came back out of office.
 
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