MI MI - Patricia Spencer, 16, & Pamela Hobley, 15, Oscoda, 31 Oct 1969

It does seem like these two girls may have had a ride. That could be why they waited until late in the school day to skip out - their ride couldn't get there until the afternoon.

As for the perp, I'd look for someone a little older than the two girls (old enough to be "cool" but not old enough to be "creepy") and someone at least one of them knew well enough to consider safe.

As for the bones found at the construction site, I agree that this may turn out to be an unmarked cemetery.

Look, there are two possibilities, all based on them LEAVING THE SCHOOL together. I believe the logical one, given the outcome.

The entire story is they left school in short clothes and near the end of the school day. Makes no sense to cut skool when the buses are coming to pick you up. You skip much EARLIER. Unless there was a reason.

They expected a ride, because they were NOT walking 2 miles to get to downtown bore city. They cut school just in time to buy freshest costume or get the best candy? It was HWeen, right?

But it was a bad day, because someone wanted to take Halloween to a different level.

Thrill kill or whatever, it happened within a few feet of school. Not the killing, but the abduction. Willing or otherwise, those kids were picked up.

There was a reason they left school so late in the day, and we need to focus on that. that, alone, is bizarre behavior unless one vic lived within a few feet. Skip the last class together.

Did they share a class? We know ****, but we're on the right path.

did either skip school late in the day> what were their last classes? FFS we don't even know if they met just because they both wanted to skip Gym or Family Matters classes that day.

Not to be sexist, but I went to HS years later and the classes and teachers had gone downhill.

I said there were two reasons. They bailed and ended up together, being picked up by killer(s).

you name 1965 as any time one killer took two. THAT IS HUGE, folks, and even the system is not paying attention to the fact it was a group abduction / murder

imo the group abduction/murder makes this something bigger, outside of the locals. the whole story says setup or massive luck on the part of multiple murderers.
See my points?

Why did they leave?
Together?
Well they both were abducted and killed together, so YES they hooked up.
WHEN?

Without unveiling the truth about the vics, we'll never know how they were intentionally in the wrong place at the wrong time. The victims were set up and used.

Which is my first point. TWO reasons. They were set up. Whether they did it or not, someone within a couple years of their ages knows the whole story.

Interesting comments, dmac. Thanks so much.

I am curious though, as to your specific interest in this case. Are you from this area?

No, not from Oscoda/Au Sable, but traveled through many times. But it's not important to my understanding of the case: figuring out where the school was compared to the victims' homes, the distance to town or other areas socially important to the girls- my perspective on likely avenues of discourse are derived from plain old boring logic.

Sad to see this thread getting no attention. Didn't family members have a website or facebook page? Any links to contacts would be helpful. I know the recent PD did a dig at an old barn site with no results that I know of, plus they found multiple skeletal remains near a roadway dig in the center of town (said to be prehistoric? No updates), plus that asshat, Jimmie Nelson, got a freebie. Not good days for Oscoda Justice. Everything seems to be going in the toilet, along with the lake level, jobs, etc. Only drug usage is climbing the charts. Not with a bullet, but a couple of banana clips taped together.

http://www.michigan.gov/minewswire/0,4629,7-136-3452-290896--,00.html

Bones said to be from Native Americans.

The disappearance of these two girls occurred only three months after the capture of John Norman Collins, who was suspected of abducting and murdering seven girls in the Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti area. Collins was convicted of one of those murders, but not the others. 40 years later, another man was convicted of murdering one of the seven "co-eds".

Between 1967 and 69, there were other murders of young women. Two were solved in 1969, while the other was only solved in 2011.

In January, 1970, Cynthia Coon, age 13, went missing from Ann Arbor. She has never been found and the case is still unsolved.

There were a number of killers preying on young women in Michigan around the time Patricia and Pamela disappeared.

Richard said:

The disappearance of these two girls occurred only three months after the capture of John Norman Collins, who was suspected of abducting and murdering seven girls in the Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti area. Collins was convicted of one of those murders, but not the others. 40 years later, another man was convicted of murdering one of the seven "co-eds".

Between 1967 and 69, there were other murders of young women. Two were solved in 1969, while the other was only solved in 2011.

In January, 1970, Cynthia Coon, age 13, went missing from Ann Arbor. She has never been found and the case is still unsolved.

There were a number of killers preying on young women in Michigan around the time Patricia and Pamela disappeared.

Click to expand...

Who was the other convicted man? Was he a teen or early twenties in 1969?

Claudette said:

Who was the other convicted man? Was he a teen or early twenties in 1969?

Click to expand...

I assume you are asking about the man convicted of one of the "seven" Co-Ed murders generally thought to have been the work of Collins?

In 2005, a Michigan man - Gary Leiterman - was convicted of the murder of Jan or Jane Mixer, one of the seven "Co-ed" victims. He had never been connected to Collins or to any of the murder victims until a DNA test done on the victim's clothing still in evidence matched with his DNA, which was on file due to a felony conviction involving drugs.

Leiterman denied abducting and killing Miss Mixer, but was convicted on the strength of the DNA evidence. I believe that he was in his 20's in 1969. He had a car which he used to offer a ride to his victim, and he did own a handgun, thought to have been the murder weapon.


John Collins had a close friend and associate named Andrew Manuel, (alias Richard Diaz alias John Stowtack). Manuel was Collins' partner and room mate. They also had a third room mate who might have been involved in, or had knowledge of some of the murders. On one occasion, three men (one of them identified as Collins) were seen by an eye witness giving victim Joan Schell a ride in a red car just before she was murdered.

Manuel's close association with Collins, and his very suspicious flight from Michigan after Collins' arrest are an indication of his knowledge of, and complicity in the murders. In fact, the two traveled together across country from Michigan to California with a stolen camping trailer. They were both in California when five young girls were murdered, and then they left the trailer in California to return to Michigan together in a silver Oldsmobile.

In their short time back in Michigan, on 23 July 1969, 18 year old Karen Sue Beineman was abducted and murdered. Collins was soon arrested and charged with her murder.

Immediately, Manuel left Michigan for California (probably to remove or destroy evidence in the trailer), and then made his way to Phoenix, AZ where he was caught in early August 1969.

During his flight through California, another still unidentifed girl was murdered near Lompoc in a similar manner to some of the Michigan murders. She was stabbed numerous times with a knife. Perhaps just a Big coincidence...

That girl, sometimes referred to as "Lompoc Jane Doe" remains unidentified. Author Sue Grafton based her crime novel "Q is for Quarry" on her case.

I have no idea where either Leiterman or Manuel were on 31 October 1969, but it would be a good question to ask.

Just my two cents worth, is there a way to search for later convicted sex offenders/murders who may have been stationed at the air base during that time?

For some reason I can see two teenage girls being lured by a promise of a Halloween party with older men, especially after the summer of love (Woodstock).

Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 5:00 am

Holly Nelson

OSCODA – Oscoda Township Police Chief Mark David said he has learned that two girls who went missing from Oscoda on Oct. 31, 1969 were not last seen on River Road near Oscoda High School.

A witness recently came forward to report giving a ride to the girls and dropping them off at a gas station then located at River Road and US-23.

According to David, this witness was puzzled as to why media reports continue to give the place of the girls’ disappearance as just east of the school, since he had told investigators about picking up the girls in 1969.

“There is nothing, absolutely nothing about this in the case file,” he said.

With the lead cop saying this case has missing files, is anyone surprised or alarmed? Nobody seems to want to discuss it anymore, yet that little piece from a local witness, who discounts DECADES worth of "last sighting reports", generates nothing?

Has anyone figured out where the OLD WITNESS claims to have dropped the girls off? It was an old gas station.

NOW it is the FIRE DEPARTMENT and TOWN HALL. That's where they WENT MISSING.

Picket that area with signs and see what happens.

More at link

btw, I figured the gas station where the witness claims to have dropped the girls off was located on the SW corner of River Rd. and S. State (23), which has been rebuilt to house the Township Council offices, and the Fire Department.

Still only a couple blocks from the American Legion Hall, if anyone wants to try to connect it to the fantastic stories surrounding the "Oakland County" killer, but I find that to be sad fantasy. Plus, despite the fact this case has been tied to that one by others, none have ever shown if or where an American Legion post existed in Oscoda in 1969.

Latest news:
http://www.abc12.com/story/23833457/mid-michigan-girls-vanish-on-halloween-1969

OSCODA (WJRT) -
(10/31/13) - Most people are now relaxing after a night of costumes and candy, but Halloween brings back chilling memories for an Oscoda native.

She was just 8 years old, coming home from trick or treating, when she learned her big sister never made it home from school that day.

That was 44 years ago, a night that changed her life forever.
ABC 12 Flint MI

Patricia Spencer, 16, & Pamela Hobley, 15, Oscoda, 31 Oct 1969

Full video of the recent TV report, ULd to YouTube.

Is it possible the two girls were going to the same area and hooked up to hitchhike together, safety in numbers.

That would explain why they may have been traveling together even though they didn't really know each other.

If picked up hitchhiking, anything could have happened. And it wouldn't have mattered if they were last on the road east of school or at the gas station.

Before I read about them possibly being dropped off at a gas station, I was wondering if they were out on some lonely road, that they may have just been hit by car where the driver panicked and got rid of the evidence.