KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #1

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eyestowardHeaven said:
He has one brother but he is deceased.

I do think she would have told us ESPECIALLY if she didn't like him or felt like he was pushing the issue, ie, the guy I previously posted about. There was nothing wrong w/ him, I don't even think he was pushy, she just wanted nothing to do w/ having a man in her life right now. And she told us ALL about him.

If there was something she thought was strange, out of the ordinary, scary, whatever...she told us about it. I'm thinking back now to times that she would call and say, "You know, I heard a strange noise last night, I wonder what that could have been?" and wondering if this guy had ever been around her house before??? At the time, I just wrote it off to all the strange noises you might hear at night, but now I don't know. But if she told me about strange noises, I'm just sure she would have told me about a guy bothering her.
Click to expand...

It seems your mother had good reason to be cautious. When i recall what you mentioned, the time your father took the backhoe and made a big trench so that your mother and his elderly mother couldn't get out the driveways.. it's very scary. Not only would it had been horrible had they needed to get out or have vehicles in, in case of emergency, it also seems he did such a thing for control over your mother. That he was very controlling of her.
Did your mother even mention in detail what the strange noises sounded like? I'm wondering if your father stalked her after she moved out.. It sounds like he was very controlling of her, please correct me if i am wrong. I wonder how controlling he is of his new wife? What happens when he thinks he is "losing control" of things he formerly thought he had control of (whether or not he really did have control, in his mind, possibly he may have thought he did or wanted to).
I hope this post makes sense, please let me know if i need to explain better here..
 
MeoW333 said:
It seems your mother had good reason to be cautious. When i recall what you mentioned, the time your father took the backhoe and made a big trench so that your mother and his elderly mother couldn't get out the driveways.. it's very scary. Not only would it had been horrible had they needed to get out or have vehicles in, in case of emergency, it also seems he did such a thing for control over your mother. That he was very controlling of her.
Did your mother even mention in detail what the strange noises sounded like? I'm wondering if your father stalked her after she moved out.. It sounds like he was very controlling of her, please correct me if i am wrong. I wonder how controlling he is of his new wife? What happens when he thinks he is "losing control" of things he formerly thought he had control of (whether or not he really did have control, in his mind, possibly he may have thought he did or wanted to).
I hope this post makes sense, please let me know if i need to explain better here..
Click to expand...

Yes, it makes sense. He was always very controlling of her...I don't know if she saw it that way or not, but if there was going to be a problem w/ her going somewhere or doing something or being around certain people, she often would just not do it to avoid conflict. I mentioned that he would accuse her of having affairs? Like w/ the priests at our church? Not a certain one, any of them who he thought she talked too much about or if he thought she was overinvolved in any activities. And, again, my Mom would NEVER have cheated...ever.

All of that stopped abruptly when this new woman came into the picture. He started taking a shower more often than ever 3 days or so, wore clean clothes, and what should have been the biggest clue something was up - he left Mom alone. This trip some of us have talked about where she met up w/ friends in TN, I really cringed at the thought of what his reaction was going to be...and instead of there being a big blowup, he thought it was a good idea...

I won't say anything more, but bad things happened that weekend, and it was the point of no return for the marriage. We just didn't know until about 2 months later. When she finally made the decision to file for divorce and knew the day that he would be served w/ the papers, we all held our breath, but all he did was hug her and walk away. He walked away from someone who stood by him thru every single stupid, pathetic, mean, drunken thing he ever said or did. She stayed w/ him and prayed for him, and I truly feel that she was a gift from God, to him, to save him from himself.

After that, all he cared about was that he have to part w/ as little money/assets as possible (because really, after 36 years of marriage, why should SHE have been entitled to anything??) but he made himself look like such an idiot in the courts and to the judge (he went thru 3 lawyers), that I think she got a pretty fair deal. She more than deserved it.

So now look where we are. If he'd never cheated, she'd never even have been out there alone. That is where sin gets you and sometimes you don't see the effects for years down the road. Now we all get to pay the price.
 
Rita,
I've been reading this thread all along but don't really have anything to add.

Anything I've thought of has already been mentioned. If she was always as cautious as you say, and the person(s) came to the house in a car, it sounds like she knew them or she would have taken the phone with her. So either they came by car and she knew them, or they didn't drive a car up the driveway. The dog could have been on the porch and the person(s) threw the dog back in the house. Either way, it doesn't bring you any closer to finding her.

One far fetched thought I had - maybe it is someone who has kidnapped a young child and needed a motherly type to look after her. Far fetched, but at least that could have a good outcome.

I am praying for your mother and your family, hope you get some good news soon.
 
Thank you, Rita, i know this is very hard for you and your family... a lot of hard questions and answering..
Around the time your mother went missing, is there anyway to find out if your father was having problems with his new woman?
Accusing your mother of cheating on him with priests since he thought she talked too much about borders on insanity.. He sounds like a control freak, and what i am trying to figure out is if he felt he was losing control around the time your mother went missing. He definitely seems the obsessive to the scary point type of person, as he went to extremes prior with the backhoe and making a trench so they couldn't get out the driveway. Lord knows what else he's done, however when some people are control freaks feel that they are losing all control bad things happen. Coupled with alcohol and drinking, matters have potential to be made worse.
Was your father married before your dad met your mother?
People who are control freaks (i had to google search for this one as there's many different reasons why they are) the reasons range from the individual feeling insecure and are stuck on their own past failures, feelings of superiority, fear that things will go wrong if they don't attend to every detail, unconfronted fears, power.
By being controlling of your mother, your father was gaining (in his perception) maybe power, yet the whole control issue would have to do with his insecurities (as well as his drinking, alcoholism may or can be based on depression and or feelings of insecurity). I'm not a psychologist so i wouldn't know.. it's very involved, you understand where i am getting at though.
I wonder how things were once he had his new woman and if she let him control her?
If he is involved in what happened to your mother, it may be possible that he felt he was losing control of everything (him being controlling for years) and it led to a breakdown of some sort.. Maybe he realized too late the mistake he made with your mother and that she was the only one who loved him and prayed for him despite his shortgivings. He ruined that by adultery and there was no way he could fix the situation. It may be possible he has been stewing since the divorce and obsessing over it. These are things the people close to him would likely notice.
From what you mention of him, it's doubtful he would admit he made a mistake treating your mother bad the way he did, yet in his mind even if unsaid, he may realize he had done so.
My prayers to you and your family, Rita
 
Malini2001 said:
Rita,
I've been reading this thread all along but don't really have anything to add.

Anything I've thought of has already been mentioned. If she was always as cautious as you say, and the person(s) came to the house in a car, it sounds like she knew them or she would have taken the phone with her. So either they came by car and she knew them, or they didn't drive a car up the driveway. The dog could have been on the porch and the person(s) threw the dog back in the house. Either way, it doesn't bring you any closer to finding her.

One far fetched thought I had - maybe it is someone who has kidnapped a young child and needed a motherly type to look after her. Far fetched, but at least that could have a good outcome.

I am praying for your mother and your family, hope you get some good news soon.
Click to expand...

Is it possible the dog was in the gated area around or on the porch and someone came up and grabbed the dog and threatened to hurt the dog if your mother didn't open the door?
Most people would go to extremes for their pets, and consider them family (i know i do).
Would it be possible a situation like that happened and your mother would open the door?
 
Sometimes it is hard to say what I really think when the family of the missing person is reading and posting here. I would never want to hurt or offend anyone in Pats family or any of her friends.

I just have to tell the story of my best friend all through school. Her Dad was just like Pats ex, and I mean right down to the drinking. He was very controlling of her Mother as well as her brother and herself. My friend would always come over and spend as much time at my house as she could. Her Mother was afraid of the Dad (husband) when he was drinking. He was violent and just mean.

My friends Mother finally got up the courage to leave him after the kids were all grown and either in college or living on their own. When she left him, she would refuse to see him and would tell him to communicate through the lawyers. They had owned a foreign car repair shop and car lot. He bought her out of her part of the business. Many, many times she caught him just sitting in his vehicle watching her house. Neither my friend or her brother wanted their Mother staying alone in her house, but she did anyway. One night my friends Dad got drunk, went to her Mothers house and shot her, then himself.

Everyone could see the danger my friends Mother was in even though she herself couldn't. She had been happy and he couldn't stand it. He felt as if he 'owned' her and how dare she be happy without him. And having money he felt was his.

I know this story is not exactly the same as Pat's, but the type of man is the same. Controlling, the drinking, and the propensity toward doing mean deeds is the same. My friend's Mother wound up dead.

Rita, I do not want to hurt your feelings, but I do think your Dad knows something if not exactly what happened to your Mother. I honestly feel that the red dually, the cap, and the money clip are diversions and were probably staged. It doesn't make sense. A guy is going to know when his ball cap comes off his head. How would a money clip have fallen out of his pocket? A money clip and nothing else? Then there were the droplets of blood on the front porch. Whose blood was it? Believe me, LE knows whether or not it was your Mother's.

I hope with all my heart that Pat will be found alive and well. The longer she is gone, the less likely it will be, tho. It is just my deep, deep feeling that her ex knows what happened and is the reason for her disappearance.

May God bless all of you, Rita, and give you resolution as to what happened to your Mother. I hope I have not offended you with my post.
 
Rita - still praying for your Mom, you and your family. Patricia reminds me of my own beloved Mommy, who we lost 6 years ago. And I'm sorry to say - your dad reminds me of my own narcissistic father - except that he never drank.

Is your dad's "new" woman still in his life? Is she much younger than your dad? Are they married?

I'm sorry to say, I do believe your dad had something to do with this - more than shooting his drunken mouth off at a bar. But if this woman is still in his life, they need to be looking at her and her friends too. I cannot believe your mother would have been harmed by someone who had nothing to personally gain from her being out of the picture. IMO, LE needs to follow the money here.
 
I think LE will follow the money here and will investigate this case thoroughly. Who had something to gain by Pat disappearing? Who has been talking negatively about her in public? Motive? Only one person comes to my mind.

MOO
 
LA Law

I understand what you are saying and the obvious suspect would be Pat's ex-- and it could very well be that he had something to do with this -- It would make sense..

But the ballcap coming off someone's head-- well- yes, a person may know that it came off -- but depending on what is happening at the time -- a person might not be able to go and find his cap in the dark.

The money clip? We have no idea if it was found alone or with anything else. It may or may not have fallen from a pocket-- it could have fallen from the floor or seat of a vehicle-- who knows??

I am certain that LE are letting us (the general public) know just a tiny bit about these 2 items. Most likely there is more to them than we know
 
dreamweaver said:
WS Astrology thread has posted answers to some questions about the chart briefing.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79041&page=13
post number 306, 307, 308, 309.

The briefing did say that Patricia's husband (ex) was not responsible for her
abduction.
Click to expand...


Please re-read the post by Tuba. You are misunderstanding what she wrote in the second paragraph.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4500279&postcount=309"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - CASE BRIEFINGS only[/ame]
 
MeoW333 said:
Thank you, Rita, i know this is very hard for you and your family... a lot of hard questions and answering..
Around the time your mother went missing, is there anyway to find out if your father was having problems with his new woman?
Accusing your mother of cheating on him with priests since he thought she talked too much about borders on insanity.. He sounds like a control freak, and what i am trying to figure out is if he felt he was losing control around the time your mother went missing. He definitely seems the obsessive to the scary point type of person, as he went to extremes prior with the backhoe and making a trench so they couldn't get out the driveway. Lord knows what else he's done, however when some people are control freaks feel that they are losing all control bad things happen. Coupled with alcohol and drinking, matters have potential to be made worse.
Was your father married before your dad met your mother?
People who are control freaks (i had to google search for this one as there's many different reasons why they are) the reasons range from the individual feeling insecure and are stuck on their own past failures, feelings of superiority, fear that things will go wrong if they don't attend to every detail, unconfronted fears, power.
By being controlling of your mother, your father was gaining (in his perception) maybe power, yet the whole control issue would have to do with his insecurities (as well as his drinking, alcoholism may or can be based on depression and or feelings of insecurity). I'm not a psychologist so i wouldn't know.. it's very involved, you understand where i am getting at though.
I wonder how things were once he had his new woman and if she let him control her?
If he is involved in what happened to your mother, it may be possible that he felt he was losing control of everything (him being controlling for years) and it led to a breakdown of some sort.. Maybe he realized too late the mistake he made with your mother and that she was the only one who loved him and prayed for him despite his shortgivings. He ruined that by adultery and there was no way he could fix the situation. It may be possible he has been stewing since the divorce and obsessing over it. These are things the people close to him would likely notice.
From what you mention of him, it's doubtful he would admit he made a mistake treating your mother bad the way he did, yet in his mind even if unsaid, he may realize he had done so.
My prayers to you and your family, Rita
Click to expand...

I think things between him and the new woman (which is now 2 - 3 yrs long) have always been off and on, but I don't know any more specific than that. I am sure the new woman does NOT let him control her - I think she does what she wants.

Thank you for your prayers and ideas - they are appreciated.
 
MeoW333 said:
Is it possible the dog was in the gated area around or on the porch and someone came up and grabbed the dog and threatened to hurt the dog if your mother didn't open the door?
Most people would go to extremes for their pets, and consider them family (i know i do).
Would it be possible a situation like that happened and your mother would open the door?
Click to expand...

That is a possiblity, but we all believe there was only one person and that they would have to have driven up the driveway, therefore not surprising her.

We now know that the time frame has been narrowed to a very short time period, so I believe what we thought in the beginning - she was at the computer and was interrupted by something and ended up at the front door. When she got up from her computer, she left the phone sitting right there beside her keyboard. That tells me she completely knew this person or went to the door for another, unknown reason, not suspecting there was any danger.

If it was my "dad" at the door, she would never have opened the door to him if she knew that's who was at the door. I am positive she would have been on that phone calling us.
 
LaLaw2000 said:
Sometimes it is hard to say what I really think when the family of the missing person is reading and posting here. I would never want to hurt or offend anyone in Pats family or any of her friends.

I just have to tell the story of my best friend all through school. Her Dad was just like Pats ex, and I mean right down to the drinking. He was very controlling of her Mother as well as her brother and herself. My friend would always come over and spend as much time at my house as she could. Her Mother was afraid of the Dad (husband) when he was drinking. He was violent and just mean.

My friends Mother finally got up the courage to leave him after the kids were all grown and either in college or living on their own. When she left him, she would refuse to see him and would tell him to communicate through the lawyers. They had owned a foreign car repair shop and car lot. He bought her out of her part of the business. Many, many times she caught him just sitting in his vehicle watching her house. Neither my friend or her brother wanted their Mother staying alone in her house, but she did anyway. One night my friends Dad got drunk, went to her Mothers house and shot her, then himself.

Everyone could see the danger my friends Mother was in even though she herself couldn't. She had been happy and he couldn't stand it. He felt as if he 'owned' her and how dare she be happy without him. And having money he felt was his.

I know this story is not exactly the same as Pat's, but the type of man is the same. Controlling, the drinking, and the propensity toward doing mean deeds is the same. My friend's Mother wound up dead.

Rita, I do not want to hurt your feelings, but I do think your Dad knows something if not exactly what happened to your Mother. I honestly feel that the red dually, the cap, and the money clip are diversions and were probably staged. It doesn't make sense. A guy is going to know when his ball cap comes off his head. How would a money clip have fallen out of his pocket? A money clip and nothing else? Then there were the droplets of blood on the front porch. Whose blood was it? Believe me, LE knows whether or not it was your Mother's.

I hope with all my heart that Pat will be found alive and well. The longer she is gone, the less likely it will be, tho. It is just my deep, deep feeling that her ex knows what happened and is the reason for her disappearance.

May God bless all of you, Rita, and give you resolution as to what happened to your Mother. I hope I have not offended you with my post.
Click to expand...

You have not offended me at all...in fact that is what was in the back of my mind for many, many years, from the time we were all very little, that someday he would hurt her. He was the first and only person I thought would or could do this when we found out she was missing. It was beyond my comprehension that is could have been anyone else.

First of all, from how I know him, if he had wanted to harm her, it would have been for bitterness, revenge, blame...he would gain a little monetarily but nothing compared to what he already lost in the divorce, so to me it would have to have been emotional. But we are certain he didn't do it himself and if he paid someone to do it, why would they not just harm her and leave her there? Why go to all the trouble of taking her? Down the road, when she escapes, why do they chase her, leaving evidence in a struggle, and get her back in the vehicle? Why not just say this is too much trouble and harm her then and leave her there? The ballcap and moneyclip ARE part of what was left at the scene, and were not left there intentionally. She put up a pretty big fight trying to get away. There was a house just west of where the scene on the road happened (very close), and the family was home, w/ lights on in the house, so I'm pretty sure she knew if she could get there, she could get help.

I don't believe he has a lot of feeling left for her, but he does love his money - he was angry w/ her for taking what he thought she didn't have any right to. But I don't see this fitting as far as him being directly involved. I could be totally wrong though.

Thank you LaLaw2000 for your thoughts and ideas - they are appreciated, and again, I am not offended in any way.
 
Fairy1 said:
Rita - still praying for your Mom, you and your family. Patricia reminds me of my own beloved Mommy, who we lost 6 years ago. And I'm sorry to say - your dad reminds me of my own narcissistic father - except that he never drank.

Is your dad's "new" woman still in his life? Is she much younger than your dad? Are they married?

I'm sorry to say, I do believe your dad had something to do with this - more than shooting his drunken mouth off at a bar. But if this woman is still in his life, they need to be looking at her and her friends too. I cannot believe your mother would have been harmed by someone who had nothing to personally gain from her being out of the picture. IMO, LE needs to follow the money here.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head w/ the term "narcissistic". That's what my Mom has called "dad" for the last couple of years.

The other woman is maybe 8 or 10 yrs younger, not for sure. They are not married. I do know that he has to be involved for this to happen, but until we know more, I think it was indirectly at this point.

I'm sure that they both are being looked into by LE - they're definitely not cleared.
 
FifthEssence said:
Please re-read the post by Tuba. You are misunderstanding what she wrote in the second paragraph.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - CASE BRIEFINGS only
Click to expand...

FifthEssence:
I re read the post.
I bolded the part I think I may have missed.

'' I can tell you that the assailant was violent by nature and not for the occasion. Very dangerous. As bad as relations were with the ex-husband, if he is not a man given to fierce and ruthless aggression, he is not responsible for what happened on November 6. He is described by Mars in Leo square Sun-Mercury in Scorpio but due to the critical degree of Mars that night, he was more enraged than normally (for him), which is saying a good deal. Mars, as you will see in the center of the chart, also ruled the hour and facilitated the pouring out of ferocity. "

Is this correct?
If the ex husband is not given to ruthless aggression, he is NOT the abductor.

But, IF he is, then possibly he is the person who abducted Patricia K?
(do you have the ex husband's dob?)
 
eyestowardHeaven said:
That is a possiblity, but we all believe there was only one person and that they would have to have driven up the driveway, therefore not surprising her.

We now know that the time frame has been narrowed to a very short time period, so I believe what we thought in the beginning - she was at the computer and was interrupted by something and ended up at the front door. When she got up from her computer, she left the phone sitting right there beside her keyboard. That tells me she completely knew this person or went to the door for another, unknown reason, not suspecting there was any danger.

If it was my "dad" at the door, she would never have opened the door to him if she knew that's who was at the door. I am positive she would have been on that phone calling us.
Click to expand...

Is it possible that your dad had obtained a duplicate house key? Perhaps from a worker who was working on your mom's house or someone else?
Did anyone have a house key other than your mom?
 
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