MD - Phylicia Barnes, 16, Baltimore, 28 Dec 2010 #6

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I've been reading as much as I can about the case. I'll make some points about the texts and phone calls and the girls' 'alibis' that day if anyone is interested. Mostly, I want to note that I don't think the girls sound unusual. I feel just horrible for JS and everyone, but these girls sound like where I hung out at age 18-19 or so. I'm not saying that I'd lie to a mother about men living there, etc, but if my little half-sister wanted me to, I might. It would be tempting.

I actually had a problem with people on the lease letting in whomever they pleased. One dude was given our keys and came in silently while I was in the shower! I kicked out the girl who wouldn't change those ways, as I was the primary lease-holder.

I haven't been able to find much about tweets and actions of the guys, except for that timeline posted on the FB page mentioned in the last page or two. So I can't say how I feel about all that. Certainly, someone can really leave someone sleeping. I'll have to know more.

I do have theories about what could have happened had Phylicia really left to get food.

Did police ever check cameras (if there are any) that are around that nearby metro stop?


Thanks :)
 
writer7 said:
I've been reading as much as I can about the case. I'll make some points about the texts and phone calls and the girls' 'alibis' that day if anyone is interested. Mostly, I want to note that I don't think the girls sound unusual. I feel just horrible for JS and everyone, but these girls sound like where I hung out at age 18-19 or so. I'm not saying that I'd lie to a mother about men living there, etc, but if my little half-sister wanted me to, I might. It would be tempting.

I actually had a problem with people on the lease letting in whomever they pleased. One dude was given our keys and came in silently while I was in the shower! I kicked out the girl who wouldn't change those ways, as I was the primary lease-holder.

I haven't been able to find much about tweets and actions of the guys, except for that timeline posted on the FB page mentioned in the last page or two. So I can't say how I feel about all that. Certainly, someone can really leave someone sleeping. I'll have to know more.

I do have theories about what could have happened had Phylicia really left to get food.

Did police ever check cameras (if there are any) that are around that nearby metro stop?


Thanks :)
Click to expand...

But P's sister is 28...a far cry from 18-19 years old...
 
cluciano63 said:
But P's sister is 28...a far cry from 18-19 years old...
Click to expand...

Oh, that's true! And it was never a particularly safe way to live, either! Some folks mature later than others, though. I knew people who still lived basically a (party) college life until 30, definitely. Not me ;)
 
Cubby said:
Truthfully, we don't know if there were ever really plans for MJ to be out by the time PB arrived on the 18th. For all we know that could have been a story DB told JS if she believed JS would not allow PB to visit if she had known MJ was not moving out to the end of the month. Thus far, there has been nothing to indicate any proof of MJ having planned to move prior to the end of the month. Plus it has basically been proven DB apparently believed JS was too restrictive with PB. I can easily see DB saying ya ya ya just to pacify JS but knowing there was no truth or plans to follow JS's requests.

jmo
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly concur. I can see the yayayaya routine to placate JS. And PB may have encouraged it, because she really wanted to go. PB had no CLUE how volatile a situation that would be. So sad.
 
LE checked cameras at the shopping mall directly across from the apartment. Phylicia did not appear on any of the survellience. I forget whether they only checked inside stores, or if there was working survellience video for the parking lots as well.

The survellience at the apartment, IIRC, was not working properly.

The reports surrounding tracking dogs have stated in some reports she was tracked to the front door other reports indicated she was tracked to the parking lot.
 
Cubby said:
LE checked cameras at the shopping mall directly across from the apartment. Phylicia did not appear on any of the survellience. I forget whether they only checked inside stores, or if there was working survellience video for the parking lots as well.

The survellience at the apartment, IIRC, was not working properly.

The reports surrounding tracking dogs have stated in some reports she was tracked to the front door other reports indicated she was tracked to the parking lot.
Click to expand...

Home Depot had cameras of the parking lot, and those were checked, if I recall correctly. MSM said that she would have had to cross those cameras to get to the shopping center.
 
IF she had gone outside on her own, not only should someone have seen some kind of activity if she had been abducted, but there should have been signs of a struggle of some sort, maybe a slipper, or whatever she may have been carrying. I'm thinking she was taken out either by ruse, or already deceased. Maybe the "moving out" was never meant to take all day, but all of a sudden, someone had a big problem and had to make it look much more like a busy moving day.
 
cluciano63 said:
IF she had gone outside on her own, not only should someone have seen some kind of activity if she had been abducted, but there should have been signs of a struggle of some sort, maybe a slipper, or whatever she may have been carrying. I'm thinking she was taken out either by ruse, or already deceased. Maybe the "moving out" was never meant to take all day, but all of a sudden, someone had a big problem and had to make it look much more like a busy moving day.
Click to expand...

Or maybe the moving day occurred due to troubles the night before...
 
abstr said:
I was shocked she was found so far north. I was thinking that the searches of Patapsco State Park or the west side of Baltimore would find her. Harford County is a distance and quite a different world from the RR Plaza area of Baltimore where PB's sister lived.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was very shocked by that as well and it has me thinking a lot. Are you local? I want to share some thoughts but posters not familiar with the area may not get it. I'm also more familiar with more of the details surrounding the disappearance as well. Belimom suggested she was possibly put into a container or suitcase and placed in the water. That fits with the whole moving facade and what the dogs indicated as to how she was carried out. Even bedding being explained as doing laundry. Doubt they dumped anything traceable back to them with her. I saw the apt. complex and there's a lot of people around with close parking. Being taken to Harford County to me indicates a deliberate attempt to make it look like a stranger abduction w/no clothes a sexual assault.

I used to work in Ellicott City and drive out to Harford County every night after work for about 6 months while I was dating a guy working and staying there from Chicago. I would hop on 95 and go through the tunnel. It's a long ride and Ellicott City is in Howard County a little further out than DB's apt. but the same side of town so that is what got me to thinking about it. How and when she might have been transported from that area. First of all the tunnel has cameras they need to be checked for all the poi's vehicles. The other option is route 40 runs all the way east to west. A lot of traffic lights, much longer route and even very bad areas to drive through that way. 95 much faster and they would have to go through the tunnel but wouldn't if they knew and wanted to avoid the cameras. This is an excellent tip for LE to be looking at. My daughter and her friend and I were talking about this today and she stated how dumb some killers are and used an example of a college student in NY I think she said. He drove home from his college dorm killed his parents but he passed through a toll booth and they had him on camera going and coming. Her friend said she didn't know the tunnel had cameras until recently. They've always had them since it was built so I assumed everyone knew that but if you don't drive through it much maybe you wouldn't think about it. I don't know what they could turn up in the way of surveillance from Rt.40 since it was in December but there are a lot of businesses along that whole stretch. A specific day the 28th and POI's vehicles would be a start.
 
I used to live and work in those areas also. Another route would be from Reisterstown to Hunt Valley to Belair, then on up Conowingo Rd (Hwy 1) to the dam.
 
Money Girl said:
I used to live and work in those areas also. Another route would be from Reisterstown to Hunt Valley to Belair, then on up Conowingo Rd (Hwy 1) to the dam.
Click to expand...

I didn't think of that route at all probably because I was in Balto. County. I'm not sure where Conowingo Rd. crosses Belair Rd. but I used to take Harford to Belair and hwy 1 in Harford County sometimes up to my brothers house. He is in Forest Hill. I know the general area. I thought of 695 too since it's a big circle just don't know which would be preferred by the perp. Hoping they took the tunnel because of the cameras.
 
Hi,

For some reason, the Phylicia Barnes case had eluded my attention all of these weeks/months (there have been plenty of other kidnapping/murder cases that have not quite captured my attention as well - to this day, I can't tell you anything about the Caylee Anthony case). But that changed Thursday - when it was announced that her body had been found. :( Since then, I have been emotionally moved - almost to the point of tears (and it's unusual for me to become that emotional over a situation that is technically far removed from my real life) - and I've been riveted by the circumstances and mysteries surrounding this case. I've felt compelled to "catch up" the various developments and speculation - and I quickly found out that this site is just about the top source of information and "theories" there is. What great, important work you guys are doing here - I really admire your skills, tenacity, and compassion-in-action!

One of the theories/possibilities that has been brought up here that intrigues me (for whatever reason) is the "envy" angle. Phylicia appeared to have had everything going for her: it is tempting for me to think that, at some point, envy became an issue. From viewing a slideshow of photos related to this case - it seems to me that PB really blossomed over the past 1 - 2 years. I just wonder if PB was viewed as more of a sexual/romantic threat that perhaps she had been previously - and this Christmas visit hadn't been quite like the other get-togethers had been. Especially if there was some sexual/romantic attention directed toward PB by a certain person or persons.

A breakup of a (long-term) romantic relationship would be something to provoke or intensify this dynamic. People have been known to become emotionally unstable during these times - they can, for example, become more envious of members of the same sex perceived to be more attractive, or more "something". I just wonder if some deep-seeded envy surfaced and directly or indirectly led to some form of negligence (or worse) that resulted in this horrible event.

One thing I noticed is that DB seemed to be oddly specific about their plans to shop for some beauty product for PB's face - IIRC, she may have even mentioned that it was for her acne, or the exact product was named (some kind of acne product?). Was it necessary to get that specific? It's as though DB may have subconsciously wanted people to know that PB had an acne problem, or that PB's "fresh-faced" radiance wasn't entirely natural. That also may have been DB's way of communicating that she (DB) was to be given credit for PB's sexual attractiveness - sort-of a way of boosting/restoring her own ego in light of PB's greater beauty.

Maybe I'm reading too much into that - but it could be minute things like that that betrays some type of motive for the events that took place Dec. 27-28 (or what led to those events).


However - having said all of that, I'm currently leaning in the direction of MJ (and possibly accomplices other than DB or KB) being more or less responsible. I think if there were some "grand" conspiracy involving DB (and/or KB), MJ, etc. - and/or MJ were simply helping to dispose of the body - he would have flipped. I just don't see him being "strong" enough under these circumstances to keep tight-lipped - especially with he and DB supposedly being on the outs. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that LE has offered MJ some "inducements" to come clean if he merely played a "peripheral" role in what happened - and the fact that he appears to not have taken them (or whatever he's told them hasn't panned out) is telling.

I just think he would have told what happened to the body (long) before now if he weren't "highly guilty" - and I don't think there was any indication that LE knew the correct location of the body before it surfaced a few days ago.

Maybe he's following the so-called "No Snitch" policy? Well, if he really did post on the Internet what some people have said he did (something implicating DB) - apparently he believes in the "Save My *advertiser censored**" policy much more than he subscribes to the "No Snitch" rule!

Heck - MJ might have even refused to get involved in the first place if PB's death did not directly involve him. The scenario of PB dying of some drug overdose - and them covering it up (for this long) just seems unlikely to me, for at least a few reasons.

That's why I'm leaning toward this being a crime of opportunity or passion, carried out by MJ. Either he couldn't resist taking sexual advantage of PB - and he raped & murdered her; or he harmed her in a fit of rage (the "Facebook" drama?), and/or harmed her to get back at DB.
 
strach304 said:
First of all the tunnel has cameras they need to be checked for all the poi's vehicles. The other option is route 40 runs all the way east to west. A lot of traffic lights, much longer route and even very bad areas to drive through that way. 95 much faster and they would have to go through the tunnel but wouldn't if they knew and wanted to avoid the cameras. This is an excellent tip for LE to be looking at. My daughter and her friend and I were talking about this today and she stated how dumb some killers are and used an example of a college student in NY I think she said. He drove home from his college dorm killed his parents but he passed through a toll booth and they had him on camera going and coming. Her friend said she didn't know the tunnel had cameras until recently. They've always had them since it was built so I assumed everyone knew that but if you don't drive through it much maybe you wouldn't think about it. I don't know what they could turn up in the way of surveillance from Rt.40 since it was in December but there are a lot of businesses along that whole stretch. A specific day the 28th and POI's vehicles would be a start.
Click to expand...

How long do they keep camera footage? It's likely that the relevant footage is several months old - do they keep footage for that long?

I was just watching a program that profiled the investigation into the murder of Shaun Gayle's pregnant fiancee - and I was amazed that investigators were able to get their hands on surveillance footage (from a gas station near the murder scene; they were looking for a specific rental car that Marni Yang - the suspect - may have been driving the morning of the murder) that was at that point at least a year old. Then I thought that perhaps the investigators may have confiscated the footage shortly after the murder and just held on to it; it's probably standard procedure to confiscate as much relevant surveillance video as they can get their hands on, and just keep it in their possession indefinitely - even if they don't immediately see anything helpful on the footage.

But in that case, investigators had the advantage of being able to identify key surveillance footage before it was erased. In this case, investigators may have been clueless for four months that toll booth footage or tunnel footage of locations many miles away from where PB was last seen would be relevant to their case.
 
I don't see any reason why someone would take the tunnel to get from where she went missing to Conowingo. That would take them well out of their way. They'd be going from above the city, to below the city, then through the tunnel, just to get back above the city. It would add both time and money to the trip, and I can't imagine wanting to stop and sit at a toll booth if you are doing something criminal if other options exist.

The most direct route from her sister's apartment to the dam would be 695 over the top of the city heading east then route 1 directly to the dam, or 695 to 95 to another smaller road to the dam.

If she was taken into the city and didn't actually disappear from her sister's apartment, then I could see there being tunnel footage.
 
All of this thinking is great. To have locals who know the area really helps in thinking things out.

If she was placed in the river far upstream, what are all the likely ports of entry between the dam and the next major city up river?

MJ was out of communication for many hours.
He supposedly did not go to work that night.
He placed himself at the apartment at 1:30, and then again around 5 pm.
He returned DB's call around 7:30ish.
He returned to the apartment after 1 am.
That's a big window of opportunity. If he knew about cell phone pings/tracing, he would not have used his phone while out of the city. Which leaves 1:30-7:30 as his window. (because only MJ places himself at the apartment at 5. There was rumor of a text "PB is up and active" around 5, but that bit of info disappeared in the B and J family coverups.)
OR 7:30 to 1 am. Either window gives a lot of opportunity for travelling. He thought she would never show up. He thought he took her far enough away, that she would never be found. How far away COULD he have taken her, and still have her show up at the dam??? There's another dam up river. Say he put her in just on this side of that dam?
 
I think he removed her after the initial panic, then moved her to the river later. He would only need about 2 hours minimum to take her up there, dump, and return... Praying so hard for justice.
 
fascination said:
Hi,

For some reason, the Phylicia Barnes case had eluded my attention all of these weeks/months (there have been plenty of other kidnapping/murder cases that have not quite captured my attention as well - to this day, I can't tell you anything about the Caylee Anthony case). But that changed Thursday - when it was announced that her body had been found. :( Since then, I have been emotionally moved - almost to the point of tears (and it's unusual for me to become that emotional over a situation that is technically far removed from my real life) - and I've been riveted by the circumstances and mysteries surrounding this case. I've felt compelled to "catch up" the various developments and speculation - and I quickly found out that this site is just about the top source of information and "theories" there is. What great, important work you guys are doing here - I really admire your skills, tenacity, and compassion-in-action!

One of the theories/possibilities that has been brought up here that intrigues me (for whatever reason) is the "envy" angle. Phylicia appeared to have had everything going for her: it is tempting for me to think that, at some point, envy became an issue. From viewing a slideshow of photos related to this case - it seems to me that PB really blossomed over the past 1 - 2 years. I just wonder if PB was viewed as more of a sexual/romantic threat that perhaps she had been previously - and this Christmas visit hadn't been quite like the other get-togethers had been. Especially if there was some sexual/romantic attention directed toward PB by a certain person or persons.

A breakup of a (long-term) romantic relationship would be something to provoke or intensify this dynamic. People have been known to become emotionally unstable during these times - they can, for example, become more envious of members of the same sex perceived to be more attractive, or more "something". I just wonder if some deep-seeded envy surfaced and directly or indirectly led to some form of negligence (or worse) that resulted in this horrible event.

One thing I noticed is that DB seemed to be oddly specific about their plans to shop for some beauty product for PB's face - IIRC, she may have even mentioned that it was for her acne, or the exact product was named (some kind of acne product?). Was it necessary to get that specific? It's as though DB may have subconsciously wanted people to know that PB had an acne problem, or that PB's "fresh-faced" radiance wasn't entirely natural. That also may have been DB's way of communicating that she (DB) was to be given credit for PB's sexual attractiveness - sort-of a way of boosting/restoring her own ego in light of PB's greater beauty.

Maybe I'm reading too much into that - but it could be minute things like that that betrays some type of motive for the events that took place Dec. 27-28 (or what led to those events).


However - having said all of that, I'm currently leaning in the direction of MJ (and possibly accomplices other than DB or KB) being more or less responsible. I think if there were some "grand" conspiracy involving DB (and/or KB), MJ, etc. - and/or MJ were simply helping to dispose of the body - he would have flipped. I just don't see him being "strong" enough under these circumstances to keep tight-lipped - especially with he and DB supposedly being on the outs. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that LE has offered MJ some "inducements" to come clean if he merely played a "peripheral" role in what happened - and the fact that he appears to not have taken them (or whatever he's told them hasn't panned out) is telling.

I just think he would have told what happened to the body (long) before now if he weren't "highly guilty" - and I don't think there was any indication that LE knew the correct location of the body before it surfaced a few days ago.

Maybe he's following the so-called "No Snitch" policy? Well, if he really did post on the Internet what some people have said he did (something implicating DB) - apparently he believes in the "Save My *advertiser censored**" policy much more than he subscribes to the "No Snitch" rule!

Heck - MJ might have even refused to get involved in the first place if PB's death did not directly involve him. The scenario of PB dying of some drug overdose - and them covering it up (for this long) just seems unlikely to me, for at least a few reasons.

That's why I'm leaning toward this being a crime of opportunity or passion, carried out by MJ. Either he couldn't resist taking sexual advantage of PB - and he raped & murdered her; or he harmed her in a fit of rage (the "Facebook" drama?), and/or harmed her to get back at DB.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to welcome you to WS. Great theory and very plausible.
 
Welcome to WS fascination! :welcome:

Excellent points in your previous posts. I've wondered about a possible envy theory as well. I can't quite put my finger on it but clearly PB was brought up in an entirely different manner than her half siblings and MJ and his group. To many variables in the possibilities for me to list all that I've wondered.

I find myself wondering now that PB has been found - how much of LE's theories or information that has been shared will LE be able to piece together. How much of we ( we being LE) were told this but had no way to 'prove it' prior to her recovery.

I find myself wondering if LE will be able to determine (by way of the ME of course) whether PB entered the river clothless or if the currents/condition of her remains are indicative of conditions which would explain her being found without clothing.

If MJ and his circle are ultimately the ones responsible - what ties do they have to this specific area? Is this an area they previously socialized recreationally visiting or is this an area someone has ties to by way of their current or previous employment? This particular area was chosen for a reason.

I'm trying to find a way to tie the area where she was found to a random stranger abduction and am just not finding a way to do so. I'm curious is anyone has any theories tying stranger abduction to the area she was found.
 
fascination said:
Hi,

For some reason, the Phylicia Barnes case had eluded my attention all of these weeks/months (there have been plenty of other kidnapping/murder cases that have not quite captured my attention as well - to this day, I can't tell you anything about the Caylee Anthony case). But that changed Thursday - when it was announced that her body had been found. :( Since then, I have been emotionally moved - almost to the point of tears (and it's unusual for me to become that emotional over a situation that is technically far removed from my real life) - and I've been riveted by the circumstances and mysteries surrounding this case. I've felt compelled to "catch up" the various developments and speculation - and I quickly found out that this site is just about the top source of information and "theories" there is. What great, important work you guys are doing here - I really admire your skills, tenacity, and compassion-in-action!

One of the theories/possibilities that has been brought up here that intrigues me (for whatever reason) is the "envy" angle. Phylicia appeared to have had everything going for her: it is tempting for me to think that, at some point, envy became an issue. From viewing a slideshow of photos related to this case - it seems to me that PB really blossomed over the past 1 - 2 years. I just wonder if PB was viewed as more of a sexual/romantic threat that perhaps she had been previously - and this Christmas visit hadn't been quite like the other get-togethers had been. Especially if there was some sexual/romantic attention directed toward PB by a certain person or persons.
A breakup of a (long-term) romantic relationship would be something to provoke or intensify this dynamic. People have been known to become emotionally unstable during these times - they can, for example, become more envious of members of the same sex perceived to be more attractive, or more "something". I just wonder if some deep-seeded envy surfaced and directly or indirectly led to some form of negligence (or worse) that resulted in this horrible event.

One thing I noticed is that DB seemed to be oddly specific about their plans to shop for some beauty product for PB's face - IIRC, she may have even mentioned that it was for her acne, or the exact product was named (some kind of acne product?). Was it necessary to get that specific? It's as though DB may have subconsciously wanted people to know that PB had an acne problem, or that PB's "fresh-faced" radiance wasn't entirely natural. That also may have been DB's way of communicating that she (DB) was to be given credit for PB's sexual attractiveness - sort-of a way of boosting/restoring her own ego in light of PB's greater beauty.Maybe I'm reading too much into that - but it could be minute things like that that betrays some type of motive for the events that took place Dec. 27-28 (or what led to those events).


However - having said all of that, I'm currently leaning in the direction of MJ (and possibly accomplices other than DB or KB) being more or less responsible. I think if there were some "grand" conspiracy involving DB (and/or KB), MJ, etc. - and/or MJ were simply helping to dispose of the body - he would have flipped. I just don't see him being "strong" enough under these circumstances to keep tight-lipped - especially with he and DB supposedly being on the outs. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that LE has offered MJ some "inducements" to come clean if he merely played a "peripheral" role in what happened - and the fact that he appears to not have taken them (or whatever he's told them hasn't panned out) is telling.
I just think he would have told what happened to the body (long) before now if he weren't "highly guilty" - and I don't think there was any indication that LE knew the correct location of the body before it surfaced a few days ago.

Maybe he's following the so-called "No Snitch" policy? Well, if he really did post on the Internet what some people have said he did (something implicating DB) - apparently he believes in the "Save My *advertiser censored**" policy much more than he subscribes to the "No Snitch" rule!

Heck - MJ might have even refused to get involved in the first place if PB's death did not directly involve him. The scenario of PB dying of some drug overdose - and them covering it up (for this long) just seems unlikely to me, for at least a few reasons.

That's why I'm leaning toward this being a crime of opportunity or passion, carried out by MJ. Either he couldn't resist taking sexual advantage of PB - and he raped & murdered her; or he harmed her in a fit of rage (the "Facebook" drama?), and/or harmed her to get back at DB.
Click to expand...


Yes! Welcome to WS, Fascination!!!
:welcome:


Thank you for expressing your interest in Phylicia's case. We have all been moved by her story and are seeking her justice.

BBM

I could not agree more with your presenting the oddness of db's very specific mention of helping PB order the Neutrogena Skin ID.

Somehow that seemed rather backhanded to me as well, but I agree that mj is the key to answering what happened to PB.

Whatever issues he and db may have already had, adding a BEAUTIFUL PB to the mix during all of the turmoil, was a recipe for disaster. IMO

In terms of drug overdose, I believe that it may still figure in this case. Not because PB partied too much, but because someone may have slipped her something.

I definitely feel like something was given to PB to make her "open up." This may have been the time when the alpha male made a move.

Definitely, definitely someone made foul designs for the innocent beauty PB.

Definitely, definitely, DEFINITELY they will be brought to JUSTICE. All of them.

-btw-
When this thread closes, soon?, I would like to repost your theory/insights.

They are fascinating.
 
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