Max's Search Warrants Released!!!! Discuss Max's Death here #2

Callie said:

Hi Rosemary, If you click on your video screen it will take you to the YouTube site. The guy who posted that states he created the video using an editing program.

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Callie said:

Hi Rosemary, If you click on your video screen it will take you to the YouTube site. The guy who posted that states he created the video using an editing program.

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CDS22 said:

No. It typically is not. Think whiplash. That's what a spinal cord contusion is. Most people don't die from whiplash.

This is the link to the video I've posted previously that explains most people don't die from whiplash (spinal cord contusion):

http://www.empowher.com/whiplash/content/whiplash-it-fatal-dr-wang-video

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oceanblueeyes said:

So do you think this may be some of the reason that Dr. Peterson couldn't reconcile the cardiac arrest with the injuries Max received?

All people who have a bruise to their spinal cord don't go into cardiac arrest do they? Did Max have any fractures in his vertebrae and other injuries to his spinal cord?

IMO

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oceanblueeyes said:

So do you think this may be some of the reason that Dr. Peterson couldn't reconcile the cardiac arrest with the injuries Max received?

All people who have a bruise to their spinal cord don't go into cardiac arrest do they? Did Max have any fractures in his vertebrae and other injuries to his spinal cord?

IMO

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elfie said:

No one is suggesting the scooter lept into the air. The scenario involves the support bar of the handle bar colliding where the banister dips just below the first step from the 2nd floor. Max's momentum from the sudden stop could force him against the handlebar, causing the handlebar to pivot forward (remember the railing is only about 20" or so high at that point, from previous descriptions).

The support bar would be behaving as a see saw in this situation. The added height of the scooter along (with the forward momentum) could raise his center of mass enough to tilt right over the banister. At that point gravity takes over and a parabolic downward trajectory is inevitable. This would cause him (and the scooter) to collide with the chandelier and depending on his velocity, possibly the opposite banister. Less velocity and he doesn't reach the other banister, sufficient velocity and he does.

No amount of hand braking is going to effect a fall of this distance.

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jjenny said:

There is no information Dr. Peterson knew about the extensive spinal cord damage Max had. From the autopsy report, Max didn't have an MRI to look for spinal cord damage, he had repeated head CTs to look for brain death.

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oceanblueeyes said:

That just makes absolutely no sense to me. This was THE Doctor in charge of the ICU for Max. To say he went around not knowing what all was wrong with Max after four days of extensive testing is just not believable to me.

So they have released all of Max's hospital records and what was actually done during the time he was there before he passed away?

Doctors know to look for contusions, imo.

IMO

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oceanblueeyes said:

I can understand that somewhat. But if the scooter collided with the railing it seems the force of the sudden stop would repel Max's body over but not the scooter and there really doesn't seem to be an area long enough in the balcony area for him to pick up that amount of speed that would be necessary to be going that fast, imo. We see how wide of an area the scooter riders use when building up speed to make their jumps. Imo, there is just not enough space in that area to do so. Being lightweight it would not take much to stop the scooter, imo.

How tall is a razor scooter? Would most of the scooter be behind the enclosed banister area if he crashed into it?

In all the accident videos I have seen the person is thrown over the handle bars when they hit something solid that suddenly stops the scooter - bike-atv.. etc. and they have picked up quite a bit of speed when they do but those are mostly accidents that happen where the ground is level.

I know the scooter is durable but it is not that durable and is prone to get damaged just like anything else. If the scooter went over the balcony and collided with the chandelier it too would have cut marks and scratches imo and the only thing we have heard about it was on the first floor and he had already been told that is where he had to keep it.

How did he get the abrasions up and down his back? Most of his injuries were to his face and neck.

IMO

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sorrell skye said:

This information has been posted here before, but I'll post it again.

She gave a few rescue breaths and yelled for X who then called 9-1-1 at 1010 hours. Officer Erhard was the first to arrive to the scene at 1012 hours and gave dispatch the correct address once he made contact with X. He then alerted the fire department personnel.


According to the AR (page 2), RZ had reportedly attempted to administer CPR (rescue breaths) to MS while awaiting the arrival of paramedics.
Nowhere in this description of events does it mention that Officer Erhard administered CPR to MS while awaiting the arrival of paramedics. I have to ask: why not? CPR is an exhausting activity & cannot be carried out effectively by one individual for more than a few minutes.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DctZGRjMy00ODVkLTk1YWItODAxZjAxMzE5OTVl&hl=en

Continuing on page 2 of the AR:

Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) was reportedly started by Max's father's girlfriend. Upon paramedic's arrival, CPR was continued and cardiotonic medications were administered.

It was noted in the AR that RZ was reported to have administered some sort of CPR, but nowhere does it mention that Officer Erhard provided CPR to Maxie.

Again - I have to question why not? What was Officer Erhard doing (in a life and death situation) while he waited for paramedics to arrive?

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oceanblueeyes said:

So do you think this may be some of the reason that Dr. Peterson couldn't reconcile the cardiac arrest with the injuries Max received?

All people who have a bruise to their spinal cord don't go into cardiac arrest do they? Did Max have any fractures in his vertebrae and other injuries to his spinal cord?

IMO

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Boodles said:

Again I must ask:

1) Did LE do a physical re-enactment of the scenario they showed in their powerpoint diagram? Did they use a dummy of same height/weight to replicate the steps alleged in Max's fall?

2) Have reports of JS cell records indicated that he called or sent a message to Rebecca that night (so that she had a message to retrieve at 12:50PM)? I don't buy the 3rd party app scenario, so just wondering if anyone knows whether LE has documented whether a message/call was sent from Jonah's phone? I mean, for all we know, she (or someone) could have just been listening to previously received messages from other people. Has the allegation that Jonah contacted Rebecca to say "things are bad..Max will die" been substantiated by anyone?

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MissJames said:

My son committed suicide by hanging. My daughter found him on her way to her bedroom,screamed and my husband ran up. They got him down (I'll spare you the details) and my husband started CPR .He continued until paramedics arrived ,about 5-7 minutes later .Adrenalin was pumping and he kept it up. BUT the paramedics and EMT's never took over .They didn't work on him at all,but ran with him to the ambulance.
I met them at the emergency room entrance ,since I was at my parents house closer to the hospital. What my daughter noticed,and I did not,was,they weren't giving him breathes in any way ,not even with an ambu bag. I just thought he was breathing on his own,but he was already gone.I don't know if they ever tried.Maybe they saw signs that he had been gone too long.
My husband assumed they didn't want to waste a minute at our house doing CPR,but wanted to get to the emergency room asap. Six years ago the closest hospital was 20 minutes away. Today there's one 5 minutes away. I try not to dwell on that stuff. I imagine Max's parents have similar "if only's".Doesn't bring them back,though.

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sorrell skye said:

Is it possible? Apparently, so, based on the information in the AR. Nowhere in MS's AR does it state that Officer Erhard administered any first aid or CPR to MS - and I have to question why?

A first responder is required by law to take regular classes in first aid & CPR. A first responder arriving on the scene of a life and death situation should immediately administer CPR (after ensuring that paramedics are en route).

According the the AR, there is no mention of Officer Erhard administering CPR.

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Morag said:

When they got there and found out how heavy it was, they just said, "oh, never mind"! i think that it is pictured in this photograph, taken sometime after the foyer was cleared of other items:

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/ms03.jpg

If you look carefully at the railing on the lower landing, you will see a few fronds.

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rosemary said:

elfie:



this is one such example of that scenario you described. the person in the video flew high enough into the air without once letting go of the handle bars of the scooter and also face planted on to the ground.

warning!! this is extremely graphic and disturbing to watch

Razor Scooter faceplant - YouTube

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CDS22 said:

There has been no comment about a re-enactment with a dummy, only a drawing that has Max's height to the stair ration all wrong.

Also, I believe they have confirmed that JS sent something to RZ at the time that he says he did. They had access to his phone records without him knowing about it, according to the SW.

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SmoothOperator said:

Have a look at the demo.. Clearly possible..

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