The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #4

monkeymann said:

Here is the posting that proceeded the one I just posted
Posted on 03/03/2007 by Ladybug..on Topix Forum:

"Rumor has had it in town since the disappeared they were taken by drug lords in K.C., Mo. The two girls were prositutes and all three were on drugs. A man on death row stated before he died the were ground up and fed to the pigs.. I do not believe the three bodies are those girls."

Now the "Prostitute" part I don't buy...but I believe the person she's refering to was Francis Robb...right?
I wish I could find these statement's that were supposidly made my "One of the Robb's" in a local newspaper article...it would make them a little more creditable.

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Francis Robb was incarcerated at the time of this crime. He was convicted of murdering 3 people, and he was not on death row.

monkeymann said:

Why did Robb state that the 3MW had been disposed of at his farm. What prompted him to say this....if he actually did in the first place. But if he did say or imply this, there had to be a reason for it. I wonder if he was being truthful?

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None of the Robbs ever stated this. From what I understand, there is no known connection between the Robbs and Garrison. However, Garrison was trying to cut a deal on a different charge and told LE he knew where the bodies were.....on the Robb farm. It is not known if Garrison implicated himself to LE and that's why he proclaimed to know where the bodies were or if he was saying he knew who did and they told him where the bodies were.

I believe that is the only reason why the Robbs were even ever mentioned in this crime. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Indianagirl said:

None of the Robbs ever stated this. From what I understand, there is no known connection between the Robbs and Garrison. However, Garrison was trying to cut a deal on a different charge and told LE he knew where the bodies were.....on the Robb farm.

It is not known if Garrison implicated himself to LE and that's why he proclaimed to know where the bodies were or if he was saying he knew who did and they told him where the bodies were.

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I believe that is the only reason why the Robbs were even ever mentioned in this crime. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Garrison told police a friend had confessed to killing the three women during a drunken party. He told police information unknown to the public that led investigators to serve three search warrants at two sites in western Webster County; that they would find the women’s bodies and clues about their abduction and deaths.He also said a moss green van believed used to take the women would be found about 12 miles away, south of Fordland.

The property searched was the same site where in 1990 LE searched for two of three missing Springfieldians. Property owner Francis Lee Robb Sr. pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree murder in a case authorities said at the time they believed involve a drug deal gone awry.

Garrison was believed enough that a gag order concerning the three search warrants was issued by a judge. “…certain aspects of the information we received fit with other (private) aspects of the case,” Springfield Police Capt. Todd Whitson said. Whitson said the gag order was rare, but he could not say why it was issued, “other than to say there is such an order, and it governs the operation and everything related to the operation out here.” Added Webster County Sheriff C.E. Wells: “We can’t tell you anything about it until the order’s lifted.”

Info comes from the News-Leader, Aug. 29 & 31, 1993.

Trooogrit said:

Well it is pretty simple they have 12 suspects and probably at least 9 of them are inocent I can say there are 8 known publicly and they arent tied together. Nothing Iron willed about that. Is there any one of these confirmed to be involved in the Aryan brotherhood? Until affiliation with that group is confirmed it is just the flavor of the week in speculation.

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What the Nov 11, 1995 article tells us is at that time (1995) the SPD, MHP, and investigators from KC and St. Louis agreed that there were 12 suspects that could not be eliminated. We don’t know if any of those 12 suspects have been subsequently eliminated during the fourteen years since then or not. It is very possible that further investigation has possibly cleared some of those 12 suspects.

Two of the likely suspects have since died at a young age. It’s not hard for them to keep secrets. If they had not previously been cleared from the suspect list it is not likely that they will be unless more can be determined about their movements and whereabouts during 1992.

If there really is a secret shared by co-conspirators that has never came out to LE then it would tend to confirm that their culpability in this crime is equal, and that they are all in such a position that they would receive no benefit to their own situation by divulging it; and by implicating their partner(s) in crime would only implicate themselves equally.

Hurricane said:

Garrison told police a friend had confessed to killing the three women during a drunken party. He told police information unknown to the public that led investigators to serve three search warrants at two sites in western Webster County; that they would find the women’s bodies and clues about their abduction and deaths.He also said a moss green van believed used to take the women would be found about 12 miles away, south of Fordland.

The property searched was the same site where in 1990 LE searched for two of three missing Springfieldians. Property owner Francis Lee Robb Sr. pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree murder in a case authorities said at the time they believed involve a drug deal gone awry.

Garrison was believed enough that a gag order concerning the three search warrants was issued by a judge. “…certain aspects of the information we received fit with other (private) aspects of the case,” Springfield Police Capt. Todd Whitson said. Whitson said the gag order was rare, but he could not say why it was issued, “other than to say there is such an order, and it governs the operation and everything related to the operation out here.” Added Webster County Sheriff C.E. Wells: “We can’t tell you anything about it until the order’s lifted.”

Info comes from the News-Leader, Aug. 29 & 31, 1993.

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I seem to recall this article having read it a long time ago. Did this gag order ever get further illumination as to its contents and did anything relevant to the case ever materialize? So far as I know the van never turned up and so far as I know nothing ever came of these searches. It is highly significant that “…certain aspects of the information we received fit with other (private) aspects of the case,” was stated indicating that Garrison's information was good information. Yet, so far as I know, nothing that he ever provided turned into anything sufficient to bring charges or other leads leading to a conclusion.

Roye Cole is the current sheriff of Webster County. I think Ron Worsham proceeded him and evidently C.E. Wells was before Worsham. I believe that is the right order of sheriffs in Webster County if that is in any way relevant.

This is one of the things that has nagged me at no end. We have what appears to be very promising leads suggesting a solution to the case and then it seemingly drops off the map with no explanation of what came of it. We know that Garrison is eating off medal plates in one of Missouri's finest penal institutions and yet it would appear that nothing he ever produced in the way of evidence that would point in a specific direction ever came to anything. It might lead a person to believe he got this second or third hand among the underworld grapevine and shared it in an attempt to broker a lighter sentence for the certain convictions he was looking at for his dastardly deeds.

The elder Robb died in prison and I recall reading his obituary in the Spfd N/L. I believe also that his son also died and there is one other son still surviving. I would suppose that the "farm" in question is still in the family. I'm not at all certain how Cox fits in with this scheme of things. And I have no idea who the identities of these 12 suspects are except for speculation or how LE knows sexual assault was the motive unless there was some corroborated information that pointed in that direction. Based on the above excerpt it is more likely than not that Garrison's ostensible relevant information led to that conclusion since no DNA or forensic evidence was ever stated anywhere to my knowledge leading to such a conclusion.

Having said all of the above signifying nothing, I'd sure like to know what Doug Thomas knows about the case where he indicated he knew exactly what went down. What I do believe would make all the difference is that if the SPD would drop the pretense this is merely a missing person case and declare it a triple homicide and get the community involved heavily and let's put this case to bed. Surely there is a solution to be found somewhere. At this rate we will all be dead never knowing what went down that night.

Hurricane said:

What the Nov 11, 1995 article tells us is at that time (1995) the SPD, MHP, and investigators from KC and St. Louis agreed that there were 12 suspects that could not be eliminated. We don’t know if any of those 12 suspects have been subsequently eliminated during the fourteen years since then or not. It is very possible that further investigation has possibly cleared some of those 12 suspects.

Two of the likely suspects have since died at a young age. It’s not hard for them to keep secrets. If they had not previously been cleared from the suspect list it is not likely that they will be unless more can be determined about their movements and whereabouts during 1992.

If there really is a secret shared by co-conspirators that has never came out to LE then it would tend to confirm that their culpability in this crime is equal, and that they are all in such a position that they would receive no benefit to their own situation by divulging it; and by implicating their partner(s) in crime would only implicate themselves equally.

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This has been confirmed??? I had heard it rumored but not confirmed. Are we talking about "Larry" and "Curly?" Or two others? We know the grave robbers are very much alive and where they are living.

If we only have 10 surviving, then it seems to come down to Garrison or Cox ratting themselves or the other out if they are in anyway involved. They must believe they will one day get out of the slammer. I sincerely doubt that Cox will ever see the light of day in Texas. Don't know about Garrison.

Hurricane said:

Garrison told police a friend had confessed to killing the three women during a drunken party. He told police information unknown to the public that led investigators to serve three search warrants at two sites in western Webster County; that they would find the women’s bodies and clues about their abduction and deaths.He also said a moss green van believed used to take the women would be found about 12 miles away, south of Fordland.

The property searched was the same site where in 1990 LE searched for two of three missing Springfieldians. Property owner Francis Lee Robb Sr. pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree murder in a case authorities said at the time they believed involve a drug deal gone awry.

Garrison was believed enough that a gag order concerning the three search warrants was issued by a judge. “…certain aspects of the information we received fit with other (private) aspects of the case,” Springfield Police Capt. Todd Whitson said. Whitson said the gag order was rare, but he could not say why it was issued, “other than to say there is such an order, and it governs the operation and everything related to the operation out here.” Added Webster County Sheriff C.E. Wells: “We can’t tell you anything about it until the order’s lifted.”

Info comes from the News-Leader, Aug. 29 & 31, 1993.

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So if this is the case...was the information this guy gave found to have any validaty at all? Do you think it is possable that police just missed finding what they were looking for on the farm, and possably the evidence is still there?

Missouri Mule said:

I seem to recall this article having read it a long time ago. Did this gag order ever get further illumination as to its contents and did anything relevant to the case ever materialize? So far as I know the van never turned up and so far as I know nothing ever came of these searches. It is highly significant that “…certain aspects of the information we received fit with other (private) aspects of the case,” was stated indicating that Garrison's information was good information. Yet, so far as I know, nothing that he ever provided turned into anything sufficient to bring charges or other leads leading to a conclusion.

Roye Cole is the current sheriff of Webster County. I think Ron Worsham proceeded him and evidently C.E. Wells was before Worsham. I believe that is the right order of sheriffs in Webster County if that is in any way relevant.

This is one of the things that has nagged me at no end. We have what appears to be very promising leads suggesting a solution to the case and then it seemingly drops off the map with no explanation of what came of it. We know that Garrison is eating off medal plates in one of Missouri's finest penal institutions and yet it would appear that nothing he ever produced in the way of evidence that would point in a specific direction ever came to anything.

It might lead a person to believe he got this second or third hand among the underworld grapevine and shared it in an attempt to broker a lighter sentence for the certain convictions he was looking at for his dastardly deeds.

Click to expand...

The elder Robb died in prison and I recall reading his obituary in the Spfd N/L. I believe also that his son also died and there is one other son still surviving. I would suppose that the "farm" in question is still in the family. I'm not at all certain how Cox fits in with this scheme of things. And I have no idea who the identities of these 12 suspects are except for speculation or how LE knows sexual assault was the motive unless there was some corroborated information that pointed in that direction. Based on the above excerpt it is more likely than not that Garrison's ostensible relevant information led to that conclusion since no DNA or forensic evidence was ever stated anywhere to my knowledge leading to such a conclusion.

Having said all of the above signifying nothing, I'd sure like to know what Doug Thomas knows about the case where he indicated he knew exactly what went down. What I do believe would make all the difference is that if the SPD would drop the pretense this is merely a missing person case and declare it a triple homicide and get the community involved heavily and let's put this case to bed. Surely there is a solution to be found somewhere. At this rate we will all be dead never knowing what went down that night.

Click to expand...

When Garrison gave info to LE leading to the Webster County search the only charges that he faced ahead at that time was unlawful possession of a weapon, and escape from custody. Ten days after his escape from SPD’s custody he raped a 20 yr old college student but was not yet a suspect in that case when he was recaptured ten days after. I doubt that he would try and broker a lighter sentence on a charge which only netted him 3 yrs anyway, by associating himself with friends involved in the abduction/rape/murder of three women when he himself had just committed a rape ten days prior. It seems to me that he would have been better off to have remained quiet, did his 3 yrs, and hoped that he was not recognized in connection with the rape of the college coed. I believe that he had a momentary lack of judgment when he disclosed this information, possibly because his friends had fled Springfield within days of the abduction and were long gone and free. Garrison chose to stay behind in his hometown and everything was good in his mind until he was arrested for possession of a weapon.

Missouri Mule said:

This has been confirmed??? I had heard it rumored but not confirmed. Are we talking about "Larry" and "Curly?" Or two others?

Click to expand...

We know the grave robbers are very much alive and where they are living.

If we only have 10 surviving, then it seems to come down to Garrison or Cox ratting themselves or the other out if they are in anyway involved. They must believe they will one day get out of the slammer. I sincerely doubt that Cox will ever see the light of day in Texas. Don't know about Garrison.

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The GJ3 are all alive and well. I am not speaking of the Robb’s either. Since the deceased have not been named as suspects publicly I cannot do so either.

Hurricane said:

When Garrison gave info to LE leading to the Webster County search the only charges that he faced ahead at that time was unlawful possession of a weapon, and escape from custody. Ten days after his escape from SPD’s custody he raped a 20 yr old college student but was not yet a suspect in that case when he was recaptured ten days after. I doubt that he would try and broker a lighter sentence on a charge which only netted him 3 yrs anyway, by associating himself with friends involved in the abduction/rape/murder of three women when he himself had just committed a rape ten days prior. It seems to me that he would have been better off to have remained quiet, did his 3 yrs, and hoped that he was not recognized in connection with the rape of the college coed. I believe that he had a momentary lack of judgment when he disclosed this information, possibly because his friends had fled Springfield within days of the abduction and were long gone and free. Garrison chose to stay behind in his hometown and everything was good in his mind until he was arrested for possession of a weapon.

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Ok....So with that said, do you think there is any validaty to the farm being the burial/disposal spot for the women? Do you think that they are buried on the property? You're implying by saying that Garrison, "Let it slip" that it was a true statement; Garrisons directing police to the farm south of Cassville.

monkeymann said:

So if this is the case...was the information this guy gave found to have any validaty at all? Do you think it is possable that police just missed finding what they were looking for on the farm, and possably the evidence is still there?

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When Garrison’s court appointed attorney on the weapons charge advised him that he could be charged as an accessory to murder he ceased his cooperation with LE.

monkeymann said:

Ok....So with that said, do you think there is any validaty to the farm being the burial/disposal spot for the women? Do you think that they are buried on the property? You're implying by saying that Garrison, "Let it slip" that it was a true statement; Garrisons directing police to the farm south of Cassville.

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Garrison’s information had nothing to do with the Cassville dig in 2003.

Hurricane said:

The GJ3 are all alive and well. I am not speaking of the Robb’s either. Since the deceased have not been named as suspects publicly I cannot do so either.

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Your information differs somewhat from the information I had. I was unaware that any of these three people had died, although some have suggested one or more may have. I simply didn't feel the need to pursue them. I am intrigued that there are actually two of the 12 (agreed upon subjects) who are now deceased. I take it that this is confirmed fact. I find that interesting. I take it that one of those two is not the same person we have discussed from the Neosho area. Would I be wrong?

You don't need to answer but I would like to check some other sources to find out who these two people actually are.

Hurricane said:

When Garrison’s court appointed attorney on the weapons charge advised him that he could be charged as an accessory to murder he ceased his cooperation with LE.

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That is exactly the same information that one of my sources told me sometime ago.

Hurricane said:

When Garrison gave info to LE leading to the Webster County search the only charges that he faced ahead at that time was unlawful possession of a weapon, and escape from custody. Ten days after his escape from SPD’s custody he raped a 20 yr old college student but was not yet a suspect in that case when he was recaptured ten days after. I doubt that he would try and broker a lighter sentence on a charge which only netted him 3 yrs anyway, by associating himself with friends involved in the abduction/rape/murder of three women when he himself had just committed a rape ten days prior. It seems to me that he would have been better off to have remained quiet, did his 3 yrs, and hoped that he was not recognized in connection with the rape of the college coed. I believe that he had a momentary lack of judgment when he disclosed this information, possibly because his friends had fled Springfield within days of the abduction and were long gone and free. Garrison chose to stay behind in his hometown and everything was good in his mind until he was arrested for possession of a weapon.

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Unless I have misread your post you have fingered "Larry" and "Curly" as the two primary culprits. Garrison came after the fact.

Are these guys capable of this crime? Did they have the connections to a place of disposal and all of the rest? From what I know of their background they seemingly had little success in staying out of trouble. Is it not possible that Garrison was making this whole story up out of whole cloth? After all, he had two characters he could lay the blame on. From what I have read of him, nothing he has ever provided has proven to be factual.

Missouri Mule said:

I seem to recall this article having read it a long time ago. Did this gag order ever get further illumination as to its contents and did anything relevant to the case ever materialize? So far as I know the van never turned up and so far as I know nothing ever came of these searches. It is highly significant that “…certain aspects of the information we received fit with other (private) aspects of the case,” was stated indicating that Garrison's information was good information. Yet, so far as I know, nothing that he ever provided turned into anything sufficient to bring charges or other leads leading to a conclusion.

Roye Cole is the current sheriff of Webster County. I think Ron Worsham proceeded him and evidently C.E. Wells was before Worsham. I believe that is the right order of sheriffs in Webster County if that is in any way relevant.

This is one of the things that has nagged me at no end. We have what appears to be very promising leads suggesting a solution to the case and then it seemingly drops off the map with no explanation of what came of it. We know that Garrison is eating off medal plates in one of Missouri's finest penal institutions and yet it would appear that nothing he ever produced in the way of evidence that would point in a specific direction ever came to anything. It might lead a person to believe he got this second or third hand among the underworld grapevine and shared it in an attempt to broker a lighter sentence for the certain convictions he was looking at for his dastardly deeds.

The elder Robb died in prison and I recall reading his obituary in the Spfd N/L. I believe also that his son also died and there is one other son still surviving. I would suppose that the "farm" in question is still in the family. I'm not at all certain how Cox fits in with this scheme of things. And I have no idea who the identities of these 12 suspects are except for speculation or how LE knows sexual assault was the motive unless there was some corroborated information that pointed in that direction. Based on the above excerpt it is more likely than not that Garrison's ostensible relevant information led to that conclusion since no DNA or forensic evidence was ever stated anywhere to my knowledge leading to such a conclusion.

Having said all of the above signifying nothing, I'd sure like to know what Doug Thomas knows about the case where he indicated he knew exactly what went down. What I do believe would make all the difference is that if the SPD would drop the pretense this is merely a missing person case and declare it a triple homicide and get the community involved heavily and let's put this case to bed. Surely there is a solution to be found somewhere. At this rate we will all be dead never knowing what went down that night.

Click to expand...

This is the way I look at it and I could be wrong. All four LE agencies believe that sexual assault was the motive. It is not the guaranteed motive. I believe they looked at all possible motives, such as robbery, drugs, etc. and LE was able to rule those out as motives. So, they were left with sexual assault. Thus making it the most likely motive considering the circumstances. Whether what a suspect might have said or an annon. tip helped LE to believe that sexual assault was the most likely motive, I do not know. In the end, I believe sexual assault was garnered as the most likely motive because other motives could be ruled out.

These were 3 attractive women, it was night time, obviously it would be unusual for burglaries to be taking place at night time with the occupants home........So you've got 3 attractive women, alone, kidnapped and no ransom was made.......More than likely the perp(s) wanted the women and nothing else.

I've been gone for a couple of weeks and I'm happy to see this thread back in action. Some interesting things have come up. Springfield sure had it's share of preditary low-lifes back then. The trouble is that "12 suspects" is an oxymoron. If there are that many, then they aren't really suspects, they are just POI's (persons of interest); people with motive who otherwise can't be ruled out. Cox and Garrison made some statements that would raise a little interest but they could also be your basic jailyard cons.

This reminds me the the old "multiple choice" questions. If you couldn't figure out the answer, the best approach was to consider the "choices" and eliminate any you could and choose the remaining one that was the most probable. The big problem was that "e) None of the above".

Mule, from the "multiple choice" approach, I agree with you that Cox would be my best guess. He was a sexual preditor who was willing to kill, but his is nothing more than a "best guess". There is no real evidence against him.

Except for the "graverobbers" and Bart (if he was one of the 12), It is assumed that none of the suspects knew any of the women. I have argued that this case didn't "fit the pattern" of a "stranger rape". That doen't exclude a "stranger rape" gone bad. There is also the chance that there was a relationship that law enforcement never discovered. It is very possible that Sherill did not have a close friend that she kept fully informed of every male relationship she had. Could she have know one of the 12, (or some other local "low life" ) with LE not knowing about it?

Missouri Mule said:

That is exactly the same information that one of my sources told me sometime ago.

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On one of the other boards it is often stated that it was Worsham that made Garrison shut up by threatening him with those charges, because that fits with the "conspiracy" angle. That is simply not the case. It was his attorney who advised him to stop his cooperation.

Indianagirl said:

This is the way I look at it and I could be wrong. All four LE agencies believe that sexual assault was the motive. It is not the guaranteed motive. I believe they looked at all possible motives, such as robbery, drugs, etc. and LE was able to rule those out as motives. So, they were left with sexual assault. Thus making it the most likely motive considering the circumstances. Whether what a suspect might have said or an annon. tip helped LE to believe that sexual assault was the most likely motive, I do not know. In the end, I believe sexual assault was garnered as the most likely motive because other motives could be ruled out.

These were 3 attractive women, it was night time, obviously it would be unusual for burglaries to be taking place at night time with the occupants home........So you've got 3 attractive women, alone, kidnapped and no ransom was made.......More than likely the perp(s) wanted the women and nothing else.

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I agree, and that is why I feel that the GJ3 or some combination thereof are the number one suspects on the list. Two of the three disappeared from Springfield within days of the abduction.

Hurricane said:

On one of the other boards it is often stated that it was Worsham that made Garrison shut up by threatening him with those charges, because that fits with the "conspiracy" angle. That is simply not the case. It was his attorney who advised him to stop his cooperation.

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That was also the information from my source. Specifically, it was that he would be charged as an "accessory after the fact", implying Garrison was not in on the original abduction itself. But did he ever produce ANY reliable information about anything? It does not follow that because the other two left town and he stayed that they were somehow involved. They may simply have decided to leave town having no ties to the community so far as I know.

But we are still back to square one. How did the women get removed from the home by anyone without their leaving something behind that would tie them to the crime?

I have thought long and hard about this dating back to 1992 and my first impression I believe has much potential. It is the "George's" sighting. IF (a mighty big "if"), the women were there then it is altogether possible that the perpetrators never even went into the home and the abductions took place outside the home. If that is possible, perhaps it is also possible that people we have never even looked at; perhaps from the Hanover address and the party followed them home and onto George's. Even the prosecutor wanted this checked out again. The timeline is very problematical but not impossible. That is to say, who were the last people on earth to have seen the women alive? That is always a good place to begin an investigation.