Benjaman Kyle Statement from Owner of Websleuths.com

Memories of the Indiana State Fair- Indianapolis, IN.

BK claimed to have some memories of the Indiana state fair as a child, along with memories of downtown Indianapolis which led people to believe he grew up in Indianapolis.

Now, the Beatles played at the Indiana State Fair on September 3, 1964. If a birth year of 1948 is accurate for BK, does it strike anyone else as odd that as a teenage boy of 15/16, BK would happen to forget the Beatles playing in his home town as a teen?

I find it hard to believe BK would have forgotten something like that and that ALL of his memories are very vague. At least according to his statements here at WS, and elsewhere on the web via media and the Dr. Phil show.

Imbackon said:

Personally I am still keeping an open mind on this whole matter.
I can see how folks got suspicious, don't get me wrong. I am sorry BK has not logged in and posted, but after spending much of today reading about Amnesia, it is still not clear to me that actual trauma via head hitting or something like that, is a necessary component, albeit rare. But the biggest thing I learned today is that amnesia can also play into what one would do with "future thinking". Apparently future thinking (and this makes sense) is believed to be strongly correlated to being able to use parts of your past experiences. Future thinking to me, includes things making decisions, and maybe he just can't figure out what is best for him. Maybe there were some exagerations, for the sake of getting folks to help him, and he doesn't know how to come clean.
I lean toward him being a hobo, maybe alcoholic, and once the beaten stuff came out, he didn't know quite how to come clean. He may even be relieved a bit if some truths have come out.
Either way, NO ONE RECOGNIZES HIM YET. I would hope that if I was on Dr. Phil, had a wikopedia page devoted to me, and some of the other avenues from stories in papers, that by now, people I went to school with, worked with, partied with, lived near or whatever would have come forward by now. So technically, he is still "missing", whether he now has recovered more memories or not, but he needs to come clean or at least defend some of what has been pointed out.

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BK HAS logged in....he has read this thread...he has not responded to anything. He may have amnesia, we don't know. In my opinion he is not being honest with us about his memories and what he knows about his past and because of that it is also my opinion that he doesn't really want our help. How can we honestly help someone when they withhold info from us, lie to us and lead us to believe things that aren't based in reality? He is a grown man who appears to be able to function in society so I would tend not to agree that he doesn't know what is best for him or can't come clean or tell the truth. However, I do agree with you that he should, if for no one else's sake but his own. come clean so he can move on with his life.

Does anyone know why the Dr. Phil show stopped working with BK? I read back a little and Dr. Phil had a private investigator, IIRC, Harold Copus, working on BK's case. Seems odd that both Dr. Phil, and apparently the PI would both stop working on the case. Especially if either found any credibility to the story.

(above info on PI from Dr. Phils site)

Also, when was the 'official' diagnosis of retrograde amnesia made? Does anyone have a date this alleged diagnosis was made and which Dr. made it?

Cubby said:

Also, when was the 'official' diagnosis of retrograde amnesia made? Does anyone have a date this alleged diagnosis was made and which Dr. made it?

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I have no information on an "official diagnoses" being made outside of statements by BK and NB. Which doesnt mean he was not diagnosed with it-I would love to know who dx'd it.

I think we are going around and around, personally. Let's say, for example, that RHPD was quoting the EMT report when they said that he was covered with sores and a rash that appears to be scabies-someone is going to argue that this is not a scabies diagnosis. Let's say they were quoting medical reports that state BK was treated for scabies at ST Jo's-someone is going to argue that they have not seen the report, or that it is protected and should not be alluded to so they will not believe it. Lets say that we can point to example after example where the arguement has been made by his camp that the origin of his amnesia was a traumatic beating-there will be people who find this forgivable since he was probably just looking for some help from the general public and may have been trying to make his story sexier.

Fair enough-OK. People I am sure felt the same about some other folks we spent a lot of time trying to help-Dallas and Delia Cly spring to mind.

I dont know that BK wants to be found-I have no special knowledge of this, it is just a belief. Is it fair to continue to try and ID him-sure, certainly as long as his Doe Network listing is up and his facebook, my space and Wiki....and while he continues to reach out to the media looking for an ID.

I for one am troubled by the inconsistencies and if I combine that with the apathetic response on his part to some of this...I am going to wish everyone well and move on. JMO.

I will make this as clear as I can. Although the police on the scene are not doctors and cannot diagnose it was confirmed through one of my conversations that Benjamin had scabies. This is also backed up by other things I have read but cannot post .

RKnowley said:

This may be all good and true, but, where does is it say in any incident report that RHPD said that BK was not sunburned and did not have sores but instead was covered in scabies? You also say that RHPD states that this (BK having scabies)is also reflected in EMT reports.

There are no notations in the RHPD incident report stating that BK was covered in scabies and it wasn't noted that their information that is on their incident report is also backed up by what is stated in the EMT reports. So, where did you get this information? It is not on the incident report.

Was it in a conversation with RHPD and there are no papers that support this information? Is there another report? You already said there wasn't a a police report because there wasn't any crime committed. Was there another incident report or some other paperwork that RHPD filled out at the end of the day with other details?

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annemc2 said:

My hubby (MD) and I (nurse practitioner) agree with eleven's explanation of "unresponsive" vs. "refuses to answer"/selectively mute/uncooperative when charting, FWIW.

Also it is *highly* unlikely that there is a fourth EMS transport log because ambulances are not used after hospital discharges unless someone is being transferred to an equivalent or higher level of care. People may be given a taxi voucher or bus token if they need assistance with transportation.

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Benjaman was being transferred to a facility for equivalent care. JC Lewis Health Center for rehabilative care. But I am not saying with certainty that he was transported there by ambulance or private transportation. That woud probably depend on the particular surgery he underwent at Memorial.

I am at a loss about the discussion of "unresponsive" in the police report. Tricia and Kent spoke with one of the first responders at the scene. Their position, which they stated a number of times, is that "unresponsive" meant "refusing to answer questions."

RHPD says he was refusing to answer questions. That is their official position.

Whether or not that follows the experience of our fellow WSers in the medical field, RHPD says that is what they meant.

I guess this is why I feel like we are going in circles a little bit here...RHPD is not prevaricating. So you believe them or you do not.

Here is my question-why would they lie? To cover up the fact that they did not investigate why this man was naked and sleeping in a dumpster covered with scabies? I guess my question would be why would they investigate it? ST Jos didnt call them and tell them that THEY had found evidence of a crime...I mean once BK was cleaned up, and gone over with a fine tooth comb, the hospital did not alert RHPD to wounds that they might have missed.

I would think that this supports RHPD's story. I am certain that if there was evidence that ST JOS did call RHPD and RHPD had opted NOT to open an investigation, this would have surfaced with the allegations when this story first broke in the media in 2007.

believe09 said:

I am at a loss about the discussion of "unresponsive" in the police report. Tricia and Kent spoke with one of the first responders at the scene. Their position, which they stated a number of times, is that "unresponsive" meant "refusing to answer questions."

RHPD says he was refusing to answer questions. That is their official position.

Whether or not that follows the experience of our fellow WSers in the medical field, RHPD says that is what they meant.

I guess this is why I feel like we are going in circles a little bit here...RHPD is not prevaricating. So you believe them or you do not.

Here is my question-why would they lie? To cover up the fact that they did not investigate why this man was naked and sleeping in a dumpster covered with scabies? I guess my question would be why would they investigate it? ST Jos didnt call them and tell them that THEY had found evidence of a crime...I mean once BK was cleaned up, and gone over with a fine tooth comb, the hospital did not alert RHPD to wounds that they might have missed.

I would think that this supports RHPD's story. I am certain that if there was evidence that ST JOS did call RHPD and RHPD had opted NOT to open an investigation, this would have surfaced with the allegations when this story first broke in the media in 2007.

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Just to clarify for ya Believe (cause all this circle turning is making us all dizzy! :dance:0

This is what the incident report states (notice lack of term "unresponsive")

"The subject was semi conscious but would not respond to us. Cpl. Potts had dispatch notify EMS and they arrived within several minutes. EMS transported the subject to St Josephs Hospital."

The word "unresponsive" came into play when Sue Usry attended the Dr Phil show and spoke briefly from the audience. She used the term "unresponsive" at that time (4 years after the fact).

Kentjbkent said:

Just to clarify for ya Believe (cause all this circle turning is making us all dizzy! :dance:0

This is what the incident report states (notice lack of term "unresponsive")

"The subject was semi conscious but would not respond to us. Cpl. Potts had dispatch notify EMS and they arrived within several minutes. EMS transported the subject to St Josephs Hospital."

The word "unresponsive" came into play when Sue Usry attended the Dr Phil show and spoke briefly from the audience. She used the term "unresponsive" at that time (4 years after the fact).

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Thanks kent. OK, let's say that Sue Usry decided that BK was in fact unresponsive-did she mean that he wasnt talking? Did he respond to stimuli? She did not use the term unconscious, right? I mean "unconscious" is pretty clear.

I doubt she was implying that he did not respond to stimulus-after all she would have access to her own EMT report.

I think we are in the same spot-some will choose to believe that unresponsive means something along the lines of not being able to respond. And some will believe that he was choosing not to respond.

We cannot turn back the clock, so we have to take into account the actions of a highly regarded police force and a highly regarded hospital.

At the risk of repeating myself from some of the posts I have made on the starting from scratch thread-you would have to believe that multiple institutions had failed this one man in order for his story to hold up. If you find this to be likely, then you will continue to believe his story on some level. What I mean is you would have to believe RHPD, St Jos, GA Regional, Memorial and JC Lewis Health Center have something against this man. After all Memorial wanted a huge amount of money in order to give BK his records, BK is not shy about sharing his very, very low opinion of the JC Lewis Health Center/Union Mission, Michael Elliott and Grace House, and NB appealed to both Garden City PD, Jack Kingston and the FBI for assistance because of RHPD.

Except Memorial gave him his medical records. For free. Except there has been nothing to date that shows RHPD's response to BK's discovery was anything but acceptably routine. Except ST Jo's found no cause for his amnesia and transferred him to GA Regional for a psych admit. Except JC Lewis Health Center repaired BK's vision and gave him a job in exchange for room and board.

Email Michael Elliott about BK-he is pretty honest regarding his interactions and knowledge of him. I have spoken with him a few times.

Well, I must say I am getting a little bit dizzy on this merry go round we have
going here.

I have to agree with some posters that you believe what you want to believe.
Everything is seen by our own perception of the universe.

For me, BK knowingly perpetuated a lie.
Don't know why.
Not sure I want to know.

IF< IF, he truly does NOT know his identity,
he can ask for help, with a good explanation
of what the heck he has been up to
the last 3 years...since 2007.

Otherwise, I never did like merry go rounds,
time to get off and go do something else.

Voice4theSilent said:

From what I understand, BK was pretty much blind when he was discovered....and since we can rule out that he became blind during a beating (since he had no injuries when he was found sleeping next to the dumpster) he would have been blind prior to his discovery. That would probably rule out a longshoreman, merchant ship worker, etc. (or coming to "see the ocean".) I looked up missing cruise ship passengers and none matched his description. Don't know about the fingerprints but others on here could answer that questions for you, I am sure.

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OMG-you all keep sucking me back in, lol. There are all kinds of "blind." Functionally, legally, visually impaired etc...We know he had cataracts that were removed and his vision was corrected to some degree because it is reported by an independent party, IE Union Mission.

We have had a number of possible matches who had fingerprints on fingerprint cards, not in databases. At some point they had a run in with the law and were fingerprinted, but the prints were never scanned into a database.

So how would they pop up? Against BK's I mean....

dreamweaver said:

Well, I must say I am getting a little bit dizzy on this merry go round we have
going here.

I have to agree with some posters that you believe what you want to believe.
Everything is seen by our own perception of the universe.

For me, BK knowingly perpetuated a lie.
Don't know why.
Not sure I want to know.

IF< IF, he truly does NOT know his identity,
he can ask for help, with a good explanation
of what the heck he has been up to
the last 3 years...since 2007.

Otherwise, I never did like merry go rounds,
time to get off and go do something else.

Click to expand...

I just love you dream....

I was looking at John Does again this morning and it made me think... (I know, that does not happen often )

Another possible reason BK may have gone off radar a long time ago, is because he was either military AWOL (I know, we have the fingerprint issue, but I am not 100% convinced that the military has every fingerprint) or perhaps BK was a draft dodger and never came home.

Julessleuther said:

I was looking at John Does again this morning and it made me think... (I know, that does not happen often )

Another possible reason BK may have gone off radar a long time ago, is because he was either military AWOL (I know, we have the fingerprint issue, but I am not 100% convinced that the military has every fingerprint) or perhaps BK was a draft dodger and never came home.

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There was a fire years ago in a Military Records building and a lot of records were destroyed.

I had cataracts so bad I was past legally blind in both eyes and it happened in a short time. I could not watch tv, see the computer screen. I could not see peoples faces. Surgery got me to 20/20 vision and no reading glasses.

dreamweaver said:

Well, I must say I am getting a little bit dizzy on this merry go round we have
going here.

I have to agree with some posters that you believe what you want to believe.
Everything is seen by our own perception of the universe.

For me, BK knowingly perpetuated a lie.
Don't know why.
Not sure I want to know.

IF< IF, he truly does NOT know his identity,
he can ask for help, with a good explanation
of what the heck he has been up to
the last 3 years...since 2007.

Otherwise, I never did like merry go rounds,
time to get off and go do something else.

Click to expand...

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Amen! :blowkiss:

Several years ago, we had the most unpleasant boss, who I'll call John Doe. JD was about 300#, unfriendly, curt, overbearing, etc. Our bosses are a revolving door, so we had 5 or 6 roll in and out over the next few years when we got yet another boss, also named John Doe. We all joked how funny it was that we'd had so many bosses that they had to get one with the same name.

This 2nd John Doe was a triathlete, funny, never seemed stressed--total opposite of the 1st John Doe.

He worked with us for about a MONTH before he told us in a staff meeting that he was the SAME GUY who'd been our boss several years before. NEVER in a million years would we have put that together. Looked different, acted different...

Just saying, people can completely change, even as adults, and even people who see them every day might not recognize them at all.

Just a quick FYI on scabies from someone who had them....I got them as a child from someone who lived in a group home (family friend) and there was no sexual or unusually close contact. I understand you can get them from clothing, blankets etc. Also it required (for me) multiple visits to a doctor and skin scrapings to diagnose, you don't see mites crawling on folks. I find it unlikely that an EMT would notate scabies, maybe a rash with a notation for suspect scabies or rule out scabies.

believe09 said:

OMG-you all keep sucking me back in, lol. There are all kinds of "blind." Functionally, legally, visually impaired etc...We know he had cataracts that were removed and his vision was corrected to some degree because it is reported by an independent party, IE Union Mission.
We have had a number of possible matches who had fingerprints on fingerprint cards, not in databases. At some point they had a run in with the law and were fingerprinted, but the prints were never scanned into a database.

So how would they pop up? Against BK's I mean....

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And FYI...according to BKs own admission, this surgery took place 9 months after he was found....and I need to find the link, but in one interview, BK made reference to the surgery that "fixed his eye"...eye...not EYES....