WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #3

sorrell skye · Mar 21, 2010

houndstooth said:
Would this be in the direction of where the other items were found, shoes, bottle etc. Do we know?

Great question!

IIRC, I remember reading that the shoes, asthma inhaler, orange ball, etc, were found about a 1/4 mile away from the van.

I'll try to find the article - but if anyone else beats me to it - TIA!

houndstooth · Mar 21, 2010

trigger said:
Maybe a local was driving. Your right very weird indeed. How the heck did she see this road. :banghead:

Hey Trig! When I finally saw where this road is I was convinced that you had to know it was there to start with. As in been there before. If it were an accidental turn off by her, you could see with your headlights this was not a good road to the interstate! You would just back out and turn around and not go down there to take a chance on getting stuck or running off into the creek and flipping over.

So much of her actions seem to be to leave a breadcrumb trail to establish her whereabouts at certain times. It was no accidental anything from where I see it. Everything seems to reflect some sort of preplanning. To what end for her son we know. Sadly. For herself, we don't know what outcome she planned. It is grossly intricate to be for a planned suicide. And doesn't seem like the thought popped in her head later, either. Yet she made no logical attempts to save her son or presumably herself.

sorrell skye · Mar 21, 2010

http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/17/1175674/deputies-resume-search-for-missing.html#ixzz0iTRlt7Dp

In another development today, Mealy said someone in the area of Little Fishtrap recovered several items that washed up on the beach overnight Tuesday. The items include a half-full and corked wine bottle, an inhaler, an orange ball, and two mismatched leather shoes.

This article doesn't say exactly where the items washed ashore, but it does say they were discovered on Tuesday - several days after Shantina & Azriel disappeared.

90Nine · Mar 21, 2010

I did a little project:

Where her van was found:

This shows where the road ended and she came onto the beach. It also shows the distance comparison to the cove that the tide goes to and from the photos looks like the water goes several feet high. I've circled the area where the road ends and made a line to where direction in which she parked

Cove:

Cove area - gives a better idea of the depth and tide levels:

Higher tide - kind of puts all of the other photos into perspective:

revampz · Mar 21, 2010

Hi re the knock on the door at 1am.....

Is there anyone here a bit of an expert on the accuracy of the sniffer dogs/bloodhounds...

They have said that the dogs did not find any scent...

I think we need to know what this means...

ie.....the dogs are very accurate and it is extremely likely that it wasnt them knocking on the door.....

or there is a degree to which the dogs may miss something and even though they didnt pick up a scent there may still be a possibility one of them knocked on the door...

I think knowing how accurate the dogs are can put to rest once and for all that one of them were there...

well for me anyhow........

houndstooth · Mar 21, 2010

sorrell skye said:
Great question!

IIRC, I remember reading that the shoes, asthma inhaler, orange ball, etc, were found about a 1/4 mile away from the van.

I'll try to find the article - but if anyone else beats me to it - TIA!

Thanks Sorrell. I am very curious about these items. Especially the orange ball. For a ball which would float so easily to land anywhere near an inhaler and shoes is quite miraculous. I did an experiment with my own inhaler. I placed it in the tub and turned the water on forcefully with the plug down so the "tide" would come in and eventually cover it over with a "current". It never floated. It stayed on the bottom. On something like shifting sand it would have become buried where it dropped in silt or so it seems. If you find the article see if they say where along the tidewater mark these items were found as well as where in relation to "knock house". TIA

PaulR · Mar 21, 2010

A thought...

If S&A got out of the van and started walking down the beach, they may have been washed out (perhaps after trying to sleep on the beach, or just succumbing to hypothermia) around where the items were found.

In which case the items didn't have to travel very far at all.

sorrell skye · Mar 21, 2010

http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/18/1176112/clues-add-to-mystery.html

A woman walking on the beach with friends Sunday found a small shoe, an inhaler and a half-full bottle of white wine that had washed up about a quarter-mile east of where a missing woman's minivan had been found on the shore that morning.

SuziQ · Mar 21, 2010

90Nine said:
I did a little project:

Where her van was found:

This shows where the road ended and she came onto the beach. It also shows the distance comparison to the cove that the tide goes to and from the photos looks like the water goes several feet high. I've circled the area where the road ends and made a line to where direction in which she parked

Cove area - gives a better idea of the depth and tide levels:

Higher tide - kind of puts all of the other photos into perspective:

You can definitely tell how far under the van would have been. Scary.

Beyond Belief · Mar 21, 2010

90Nine said:
I did a little project:

Where her van was found:

This shows where the road ended and she came onto the beach. It also shows the distance comparison to the cove that the tide goes to and from the photos looks like the water goes several feet high. I've circled the area where the road ends and made a line to where direction in which she parked

Cove area - gives a better idea of the depth and tide levels:

Higher tide - kind of puts all of the other photos into perspective:

That 3rd photo your showing, is this accurate? She was down a slope and would have walked up an incline then back down into deeper water? Maybe thats where they got in trouble trying to walk away from the van.

sorrell skye · Mar 21, 2010

Snipped from article:

"She said she picked up the items and was ready to throw them away Tuesday, but her husband called the sheriff’s office, thinking they might be related to Smiley and Azriel’s disappearance."

http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/18/1176112/clues-add-to-mystery.html

I think the woman found the articles on Sunday, but, according to this article, kept them until Tuesday/Wednesday until she knew the significance of them, and contacted LE after hearing of Shantina's & Azriel's disappearance. I think the other article that said they were found on Tuesday was inaccurate.

It looks like were found on Sunday morning, but not turned in to LE until Tuesday/Wednesday.

90Nine · Mar 21, 2010

90Nine said:
I did a little project:

Where her van was found:

This shows where the road ended and she came onto the beach. It also shows the distance comparison to the cove that the tide goes to and from the photos looks like the water goes several feet high. I've circled the area where the road ends and made a line to where direction in which she parked

Cove:

Another shot of the end of the road and where she parked:

Higher tide - kind of puts all of the other photos into perspective:

Reposting - it was missing a photo...

90Nine · Mar 21, 2010

Beyond Belief said:
That 3rd photo your showing, is this accurate? She was down a slope and would have walked up an incline then back down into deeper water? Maybe thats where they got in trouble trying to walk away from the van.

It is accurate. I can't tell how many feet into the shore she was, but it looks like the higher tide would leave her about 20 or so feet out if you include the cove area - which looks to be (from other photos) about 4 feet high or more. It's hard to tell.

I posted another photo though so you can see the depth I'm talking about.

Beyond Belief · Mar 21, 2010

Where did the photos come from? They are very good, thank you.
Its the 4th i am talking about, they could have walked right into deeper water.

sorrell skye · Mar 21, 2010

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TheLaw/sh...ewes-evidence-washes-ashore/story?id=10134521

Among the leads to emerge was the report from Charles Grimmer, who lives a half a mile from the beach where Smiley's van was found in the water. Grimmer reported that someone had knocked loudly and repeatedly on the garage door about 1 a.m. Sunday, Mealy told ABC News.

I seem to remember that someone looked up the house where the knocking was heard @ 1:00 a.m., but I don't remember where it was, or which direction it was (east or west) from the van.

At any rate, according to this article, it was about 1/2 mile from where the van was found.

sorrell skye · Mar 21, 2010

http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/18/1176112/clues-add-to-mystery.html

The shoe that washed up on shore Sunday was small enough that it might fit a child, said Cora Tunbert, who found the items while walking with friends near her Island View Court home. She also found a baseball and an orange rubber ball, she said.

“There’s always stuff on the beach,” Tunberg said. “(But) it was an unusually large amount of stuff on the beach.”

She said she picked up the items and was ready to throw them away Tuesday, but her husband called the sheriff’s office, thinking they might be related to Smiley and Azriel’s disappearance. Investigators arrived at the Tunbergs’ home Wednesday morning to pick up the items, she said.

houndstooth · Mar 21, 2010

sorrell skye said:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TheLaw/sh...ewes-evidence-washes-ashore/story?id=10134521

Among the leads to emerge was the report from Charles Grimmer, who lives a half a mile from the beach where Smiley's van was found in the water. Grimmer reported that someone had knocked loudly and repeatedly on the garage door about 1 a.m. Sunday, Mealy told ABC News.

I seem to remember that someone looked up the house where the knocking was heard @ 1:00 a.m., but I don't remember where it was, or which direction it was (east or west) from the van.

At any rate, according to this article, it was about 1/2 mile from where the van was found.

I wonder if the garage is on the street side or beach side of the house. Most people knock on doors even in an emergency. If we knew if their 1/2 half mile from the scene ( Grimmer)was the same 1/2 mile mentioned in the items article (Turnberg), we could figure if this is related or not.

Beyond Belief · Mar 21, 2010

If the shoes were together and they were wearing them don't you think they were together when the shoes came off?

sorrell skye · Mar 21, 2010

Link to map of Island View Drive, where the knocking on the garage door @ 1 a.m. occurred. Don't have the exact address.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&c...code_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ8gEwAA

ETA: shows where it is in relation to Zangle Rd.

Beyond Belief · Mar 21, 2010

That looks too far away to have any involvemnt with the van location.

WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #3

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