NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #13

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wfgodot said:
Your earlier statement was this: "I'll note for the record that it's pretty clear grandmum wasn't doing much phoning to NC either (nor mum). "

I grant you your reasoning. But reasoning produces opinion, not concrete fact. To say the grandmother "wasn't doing much phoning" is a statement which requires actual evidence. Earlier, when you doubted, based on what turned out to be a Facebook page, that Z's mother had sought her out, I provided you a link which showed that the "evidence" was only Facebook hearsay. When I hear something "for the record," I'd like at least a link which establishes concretely that authorities have determined it to be true.
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Expressions such as "pretty clear" and the imprecise quantification "wasn't doing much" aren't how I assert incontrovertible facts. There is virtually nothing that we know with certainty that authorities have firmly determined to be true. But there's a lot of evidence from authoritative sources' statements in the media, and none of it is realistically consistent with either the grandmother or mother having maintained regular phone contact with Zahra. Unless, of course, you entertain the possibilities that they did but withheld that information from inquiring LE, or that LE was flat-out lying when they begged the public for help in establishing whether Zahra had been alive at any time after the most recent move, saying that AB and EB were the only sources they'd found who were claiming to know Zahra had been alive later than the move date. I don't see those possibilities as sufficiently plausible to entertain. YMMV.
 
panthera said:
At some point recently it seems she must have been employed since one of the charges is larceny from an employer. MOO
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Evening all, I'm thinking the employer referred to is AB's employer, also his landlord.
Some dots I can connect, others need connected. I think SM made all arrangements for rentals, leases and living arrangements.

I think she was in over her head making the following real estate transaction and developed into a huge misunderstanding.

2649 Misdemeanor FAIL RETN PROP RENTD PUR OPT 14-168.4
2636 Misdemeanor FRAUD DISPOSAL MORTGAGE PROP 14-114

Remember who the ransom note was directed at? I've looked up property records, guess who owns the home Zahra went missing from at 21st ave.

Verifying

Property Information

21 21st Ave NW
Hickory, NC 28601-1840
MapG MapY MapV
Assessor's Parcel Number (APN) 3703077938150000
Census Tract - Block 0105.00 - 2018

Corporate Owner's Name C****Y FAMILY INVESTMENTS LLC

Me thinks the Bakers are in a legal dispute with AB's employer.

What we need are locals willing to attend hearings to confirm all this. Based on all her charges and bad checks, I think the Bakers were under extreme financial pressure. IMO JMO and all that.
 
pinkpuddytat said:
Expressions such as "pretty clear" and the imprecise quantification "wasn't doing much" aren't how I assert incontrovertible facts. There is virtually nothing that we know with certainty that authorities have firmly determined to be true. But there's a lot of evidence from authoritative sources' statements in the media, and none of it is realistically consistent with either the grandmother or mother having maintained regular phone contact with Zahra. Unless, of course, you entertain the possibilities that they did but withheld that information from inquiring LE, or that LE was flat-out lying when they begged the public for help in establishing whether Zahra had been alive at any time after the most recent move, saying that AB and EB were the only sources they'd found who were claiming to know Zahra had been alive later than the move date. I don't see those possibilities as sufficiently plausible to entertain. YMMV.
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Perhaps you should have led with "I believe..." instead of "for the record."

The grandmother has said, "We want our darling girl back." I believe her. The Australian contingent should not bear the brunt of our frustrations.
 
audreyfan said:
I just don't see how she could have held down a job. I predict she was receiving payments based on mental illness. And I am not even trying to be funny.
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Or for the "disability" of drug addiction. Our welfare system defines all sorts of generic lowlife behavior as "disability". This past summer I had occasion to become acquainted with a nice young man who's struggling to get through college with zero financial support from his dysfunctional parents -- his father's only income is disability payments for "gambling addiction"!
 
pinkpuddytat said:
Or for the "disability" of drug addiction. Our welfare system defines all sorts of generic lowlife behavior as "disability". This past summer I had occasion to become acquainted with a nice young man who's struggling to get through college with zero financial support from his dysfunctional parents -- his father's only income is disability payments for "gambling addiction"!
Click to expand...

Maybe from private disability insurance but you can't get SSA disability for gambling addiction. Nor for drug or alcohol addiction unless you would still be disabled if you were to abstain from drugs or alcohol (ie the drugs or alcohol have damaged your health to the point that you would not recover).

Sometimes a person doesn't really know what they were approved for. Or they don't tell their friends and family the real reason :crazy:
 
Peliman said:
Evening all, I'm thinking the employer referred to is AB's employer, also his landlord.
Some dots I can connect, others need connected. I think SM made all arrangements for rentals, leases and living arrangements.

I think she was in over her head making the following real estate transaction and developed into a huge misunderstanding.

2649 Misdemeanor FAIL RETN PROP RENTD PUR OPT 14-168.4
2636 Misdemeanor FRAUD DISPOSAL MORTGAGE PROP 14-114

Remember who the ransom note was directed at? I've looked up property records, guess who owns the home Zahra went missing from at 21st ave.

Verifying

Property Information

21 21st Ave NW
Hickory, NC 28601-1840
MapG MapY MapV
Assessor's Parcel Number (APN) 3703077938150000
Census Tract - Block 0105.00 - 2018

Corporate Owner's Name C****Y FAMILY INVESTMENTS LLC

Me thinks the Bakers are in a legal dispute with AB's employer.

What we need are locals willing to attend hearings to confirm all this. Based on all her charges and bad checks, I think the Bakers were under extreme financial pressure. IMO JMO and all that.
Click to expand...

Thanks and good to see you Peliman. I had posted a question about this a couple threads back wondering if it was HIS employer rather than hers. Glad you found all this out...wish we knew more but what you have found helps paint a broader picture with what paint we have. Good show.
 
Reading the story at this link, has me wondering if maybe EB and AB were actually planning on kidnapping the boss/landlord's daughter for the ransom money? And perhaps something happened with Zahra in the meantime? The whole "fire", passports in the car, etc. could have been part of some elaborate plan since they were so obviously desperate for money. And imo not the sharpest tools in the shed either .... :innocent:

Just thinking out loud .. it's late .. could be ridiculous. LOL :dance:
 
pinkpuddytat said:
Or for the "disability" of drug addiction. Our welfare system defines all sorts of generic lowlife behavior as "disability". This past summer I had occasion to become acquainted with a nice young man who's struggling to get through college with zero financial support from his dysfunctional parents -- his father's only income is disability payments for "gambling addiction"!
Click to expand...

I take issue with your description of drug addicts as 'generic lowlifes'. Addiction is a physical disease not a character flaw. There is a biological explanation for addiction just like there is for diabetes. There is no cure as of yet.

There is a genetic predisposition for addiction, it runs in families. Right now addiction is viewed the same way mental illness was once viewed. That will change, I'm sure of it. moo mho
 
Peliman said:
Evening all, I'm thinking the employer referred to is AB's employer, also his landlord.
Some dots I can connect, others need connected. I think SM made all arrangements for rentals, leases and living arrangements.

I think she was in over her head making the following real estate transaction and developed into a huge misunderstanding.

2649 Misdemeanor FAIL RETN PROP RENTD PUR OPT 14-168.4
2636 Misdemeanor FRAUD DISPOSAL MORTGAGE PROP 14-114

Remember who the ransom note was directed at? I've looked up property records, guess who owns the home Zahra went missing from at 21st ave.

Verifying

Property Information

21 21st Ave NW
Hickory, NC 28601-1840
MapG MapY MapV
Assessor's Parcel Number (APN) 3703077938150000
Census Tract - Block 0105.00 - 2018

Corporate Owner's Name C****Y FAMILY INVESTMENTS LLC

Me thinks the Bakers are in a legal dispute with AB's employer.

What we need are locals willing to attend hearings to confirm all this. Based on all her charges and bad checks, I think the Bakers were under extreme financial pressure. IMO JMO and all that.
Click to expand...

If the theft occured from AB's employer, and EB was responsible, I'm sure it would have just been theft or larceny she was charged with. Not from an employer since it is not her employer.

Also if either of them stole from his current employer and charges have been filed, I doubt he would still be working there...nor would his employer have given him such a glowing reference.

Can anyone find the date when this charge was filed? Was it before she went to Australia?

MOO
 
Ada said:
I think those cards are used for getting jobs and not for getting government benefits. Many employers will ask for a SS card and end it at that.

I'm sorry, I should have clarified in my previous posts that I was referring to using fake SS numbers with the government.
Click to expand...

I worked at Dept. of Social Services processing LIEAP forms. If a applicant could not provide a SS# we used either all 9s or 0s. This was a known process. There was NO inter agency communication.
 
http://www.wcnc.com/news/Support-continues-to-grow-as-search-resumes-for-Zahra-Baker-105118944.html

The creator of zahrabaker.com said the Board of Elders at his service approved the site Friday night, and the site is already active with visits after just one day.

"We really feel like Zahra doesn't have a voice," said Rev. Brandon Greeson of the Spiritual Counseling Network, which he said is a non-profit organization. "The people who were responsible for taking care of her kind of dropped the ball," said Greeson, "so as a community, it is our responsibility at this point to have someone stand up for her."

Greeson said the group is filing paperwork Monday to officially raise money to help with the investigation, or a funeral, if necessary.

The website also features the phone number for the Hickory Police Dept. on its homepage, so people know where to call in tips.

The Center for Missing and Exploited Children has joined Hickory police in their searches, but won't comment to what extent.

Police say they plan to continue searches throughout the weekend.
 
wfgodot said:
Perhaps you should have led with "I believe..." instead of "for the record."

The grandmother has said, "We want our darling girl back." I believe her. The Australian contingent should not bear the brunt of our frustrations.
Click to expand...

I honestly believe Zahra's Grandmother was really pining for her little girl. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine that she was probably concerned with her Granddaughter being relocated to another country. But what could she do? Her son made an adult decision and she had to respect that.

Also, keeping in contact by phone is not that easy internationally. There is a significant time lag from Australia to the US. Facebook was probably the best option to 'keep in touch' given the time differences. It's my guess that Karen (the Grandmother) may have communicated with them this way and they could have fed her information that she wanted to hear - IYKWIM.
 
Choux said:
Duh! I'd left the passport part out, that was the hence "almost" as easy part.

It's been a long day!

But point still stands regardless, with the waiver system unless something has been entered into the immigrations system and flagged at the time of ticket purchase, it's drama free travel.

Additionally, just before the 90 days are up, you wouldn't even have to return to your native country, a short "vacation" to Canada and a re-entry from there, would reset the 90 days. Unless this has been changed within the last 2 years.
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I don't think it has, I know an Australian woman in America doing just that as we speak. She moved over to be with her soul mate she met on the internet, moved over about 6 mths ago - I kid you not. She is also crossing the border into Canada although I'm not sure how long you can keep doing this for.
 
Mrs G Norris said:
Also the child was deaf, so telephone conversation may have been difficult or need Adam / Elisa to do some interpretation for each side....
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She wasn't deaf. She had some hearing loss in the high frequency range only. Mostly makes it difficult to distinguish between unvoiced consonants, but certainly wouldn't have caused any serious communication problems with adults she'd grown up with, familiar with their accents and patterns of speech. If Zahra had had really serious hearing impairment, the hearing resource teacher at her school wouldn't have waited until the end of the school year to "suggest" taking Zahra to the free hearing aid event. She would have been directed to other resources very quickly upon enrolling in the school.
 
Kamille said:
If the theft occured from AB's employer, and EB was responsible, I'm sure it would have just been theft or larceny she was charged with. Not from an employer since it is not her employer.

Also if either of them stole from his current employer and charges have been filed, I doubt he would still be working there...nor would his employer have given him such a glowing reference.

Can anyone find the date when this charge was filed? Was it before she went to Australia?

MOO
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One would think that would be the first reaction yes BUT, if the Bakers owed a good deal of money to the employer/landlord, how else could the wronged employer/landlord collect the money owed?

It's one thing to be owed money, it's another to collect it. KWIM?

Also I must say there maybe multiple plaintiffs.
 
PunKnLuV said:
I worked at Dept. of Social Services processing LIEAP forms. If a applicant could not provide a SS# we used either all 9s or 0s. This was a known process. There was NO inter agency communication.
Click to expand...

Interesting. This is county energy assistance though. Maybe since that can be a life or death situation (heating and cooling) they are more lenient. I dunno.

There are no claims (federal or county) that come through my office with only 9s or 0s. Even new borns are sometimes given a hmmm pre-SS# (lol can't think of what to call it) that starts 680 or something like that, until they get their formal number.
 
O/T being hooked on this case and utterly unable to tear myself away while I am in reach of the computer- the little breaks, dinner out, homecoming game last night have all been welcome relief. Just now I took a FB break and was uplifted seeing all the Moms posting all the kids pictures as they got ready to leave for the Homecoming Dance...just a reminder that there is happiness and hope out there, even when it is hard to see while we are her...
(ok proud Mom is done tearing up thinking Wow I only have 1 more year to do this)
 
does anyone have the link of the short AB interview by channel 9 yesterday ?
 
Nosee_Parker said:
I honestly believe Zahra's Grandmother was really pining for her little girl. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine that she was probably concerned with her Granddaughter being relocated to another country. But what could she do? Her son made an adult decision and she had to respect that.

Also, keeping in contact by phone is not that easy internationally. There is a significant time lag from Australia to the US. Facebook was probably the best option to 'keep in touch' given the time differences. It's my guess that Karen (the Grandmother) may have communicated with them this way and they could have fed her information that she wanted to hear - IYKWIM.
Click to expand...


There is a cousin of Karen (grandma) on the FB page. (in the comment section under the first link) Intials JH saying that AB and Karon had a falling out when he decided to take Zahra to the states and they have not spoken since and that Zahra did NOT want to go.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Love-4-Zahra-Clare-Baker/124056834314060#!/permalink.php?story_fbid=104229806311654&id=124056834314060
 
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