MurriFlower
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Less painful than the stun gun experiment LOL
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Clever or Lucky?
- Thread starter BBB167893
- Start date
Less painful than the stun gun experiment LOL
Unless the intruder was familiar with what was already there. LHP knew the contents of the dryer on the 25th.
Maybe not. LHP would have no way of knowing if Patsy had taken the blanket out of the dryer between the 23rd and 25th. LHP was last there on the day of the 23rd (when she presumably laundered and changed JB's bed linens). I contend that it WAS LHP who put the white blanket in the basement dryer as she said it was always washed there, instead of the washer outside of JB's room (which was smaller, apartment-sized set).
I also feel that JB probably wet the bed again on the NIGHT of the 23rd and maybe also the 24th, and with LHP not scheduled to come until after the Rs left for their trip, Patsy changed the sheets herself, but didn't bother to go to the basement to get the blanket, instead making up the bed without it. This was discussed by LE when they showed he photos of JB's bed, clearly showing there was no blanket and no way anyone could remove a blanket and still leave the foot of the bed undisturbed.
LHP, when shown a photo of JB's bed, told LE the sheets on the bed were not the ones she put on when she was last there on the 23rd.
DeeDee
Maybe not. LHP would have no way of knowing if Patsy had taken the blanket out of the dryer between the 23rd and 25th. LHP was last there on the day of the 23rd (when she presumably laundered and changed JB's bed linens).
Check what she said.
LHP* The blanket wrapped around JonBenet's body had been left in the dryer. There was still a Barbie Doll nightgown clinging to the blanket, so it had to have come out of the dryer recently, she said. Only Patsy would have known it was in the dryer, she said.
Check what she said.
LHP
Isn't that what I said? I said LHP would have put the blanket in the dryer when she was last there (on the 23rd) and would have no way of knowing if Patsy took it out, put it back, and laundered it again. But Patsy would know it was in the dryer when she needed it.
That was rhetorical.
I get the feeling most of what you say falls into that category.
I found nothing about parent-child bonding, parental instincts to protect, the strongest form of love known to exist on earth, that to continue in their lies without ever displaying the kind of grief or shame the woman you describe in your snippet would experience...I shouldn't have to teach you this.
You don't. Okay, look. Let's take this one step at a time. I'll take responsibility and say that I misunderstood what you meant. I guess the reason you haven't seen much of that in what I say is because I believe that this all came about in a situation where all of that was forgotten in one horrible instant. And as for her not displaying guilt or shame, I guess that's a matter of opinion. Just about everything they did can be read one way or another. And I believe she truly wanted to bare her soul. I realize that to you I'm not considering a lot of factors. But that cuts both ways.
I never suggested your love was the main issue. I spoke of love as a component of this tragedy.
Okay, then.
It is a huge factor and it doesn't exist in your mind and that is scary, very scary, truly.
You're right about that: it would be scary. It would scare me, too. IF it were the case. It exists in my mind. It just doesn't override everything else. Much as I don't like it, it has to take a backseat. I'm not some emotionless, Mr. Freeze-type like you make out.
However, it helps to explain why you buy into utter nonsense.
That is one of the many difference between us, Fang. Far as I go, the nonsense is what the other side preaches and them being overwhelmed by emotional considerations allows them to believe it.
Let me add, not everyone who believes as you do has this problem. But, you do.
For example?
And even when you try to defend yourself by insisting that you have acknowledged the importance of love in this matter, you miss the point by a mile.
Oh, I get the point better than you realize. I let emotions rule my thinking before. Not again.
It's a rotten case, isn't it? if you believe in them, you're foolish. If you don't, you're heartless. Those seem to be the choices.
What you prefer, is to argue your way through your dilemma.
Don't take it personally, Fang. I've been that way as long as I can remember.
For example, how weak is this? "I can't be expected to remember every word of every post...." Please SD, how pathetic is that? No one asked you to. You defended yourself by claiming how extensively you embraced and referenced "love."
You shouldn't have to try to find examples, not if it is really true. Your ability to express your belief should flow from your keyboard as easily as the junk you peddle as evidence for your theory.
It's not easy for some people, Fang. None of the men in my family have been good with those kinds of emotions. Me least of all, I'm sorry to say.
Of course it is. No one can deny that with a straight face. But this is a bit like how polys work, supposedly. No matter how hard we try to suppress painful thoughts and memories, no one can do what you say they did unless they are sick.
That's a whole other issue, Fang.
Plus, it is the last thing a person wants to do; That is, engage in a discussion in front of millions of people to rehash what they are desperately trying not to think about.
You'd think so. But there were a lot of different factors involved. I think one of the cops said it best: "she's totally rationalized this in her mind and can vizualize an intruder."
And circular reasoning is different than repression of memories.
Yes and no. They're both forms of denial.
Don't confuse this either. Just because someone wants to suppress his memories, doesn't mean he will be able to, especially when guilt, real guilt for a killing and a cover-up of her helpless child took place.
That's true. But guilt is only one of many emotions. And some have more power than others.
If you cannot address these facts honestly and legitimately, please don't respond at all.
Like it or not, Fang, but the answers I've just given you are the only ones I can give you.
I will look this up then and try to confirm that bedwetting is the No 1 cause of parents murdering their children. Is this what you contend?
Sorry, I misspoke. I should have said one of the leading causes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this an unpublished book written by a secretary in a legal firm?
Something like that.
And are you using this as evidence to back up what you have said about the toilet issue?
Yes, I am, because it matches what others have said.
There was IMO no kidnapping as such, just a 'simulation' of a kidnapping. Hide her under the house, don't ask too much money, make over the top threats, get the cash quick and then let them know where she's hidden.
It doesn't wash for me. Why not ask for the moon?
What went wrong, is that the wrong person was left to mind her. Here's where I descend into the abyss. It's very dark down here and hard to see exactly what's happened. I think that substance (alcohol and or drug) induced psychosis might feature. Scary stuff and without logic or reason. In an interesting way, its a little like what RDI tries to put on PR!
You're right about that.
I was working on the assumption that they were supposed to have been left in the winecellar awaiting wrapping?
First I've heard of it. That would make sense if they were still being sent to the niece, but not when JB had already laid claim to them.
I'm not even sure this bloomies thing is genuine. Was it ever proved that she had on knickers that were too large and were meant for a gift for someone? I get the feeling it's just another false lead. Perhaps you can clarify?
I can try. Them being too large has been proven. A poster over on Forums for Justice took panties of that size and placed them on one of their kids who was the same age. They used it for their avatar. You should be able to find it. As for them being a gift for the niece, well, I guess you'd have to take PR's word for it.
The flashlight was supposedly kept in the drawer near the kitchen.
Supposedly.
The Swiss Army Knife was in the closet on the same level as the childrens bedrooms.
I always thought it was in the kitchen.
Yeah, I don't know who started the thing about the blanket being in the dryer in the basement, perhaps LHP. PR seemed to think it looked (in the bad photo she was shown) like the blanket from JBRs bed, which was a cotton open weave.
Hmm. That opens up a few avenues, doesn't it?
I've also been under the impression that it was concluded (by whom I don't know?) that she was actually killed where the urine stain was. Then taken into the winecellar. Perhaps that isn't true either.
I'd have to say it isn't.
I can't access this site.
Worked all right this afternoon.
"Head trauma is the leading cause of child abuse death among babies. The 100% preventable Shaken Baby Syndrome is a major cause of death, where 25% of victims die and the majority of survivors suffer brain damage. "
Yeah, another quote from a reliable source, cropped to change it's meaning to support your RDI case. Head trauma by shaking is a bit different to being bashed and strangled.
Hey! I didn't crop anything. That's how I got it. I didn't see anything about infants. I acted in good faith.
Links don't work.
Don't know what to tell you, MF.
Well, I'll see if I can find out.
I'll wait.
I thought you said it wasn't funny?
It wasn't. The idea behind it was!
Yep, maybe I do.
Maybe.
Less painful than the stun gun experiment LOL
You got that right!
MurriFlower
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Hmm. I don't know about JB being wrapped in the blanket when she was taken down to the basement. My impression is that it was taken out down there and she was wrapped in it then. But you make a good point about not being able to carry all of that stuff in one trip, provided some of it wasn't already there. And it's possible that there were trips up and down, or a single trip, anyway. As for not being able to open a door, I'd say it's likely that all of the doors above the basement floor were already open. But there is evidence that JB was set down at one point in the basement (her urine on the floor just outside the room), so that might be the answer to that one.
TT: And is that what she had on the night of the 25th when she went to bed. When you pulled back all the sheets and stuff. Is that the uh, she had a couple of sheets, fitted sheets, flat sheets, this light blanket . . .
PR: Right.
TT: . . .and then the heavy kind of quilted. . .
PR: Well, right, um hum. I usually turn the bed spread down.
TT: Um hum.
PR: (Inaudible) didnt have that on her because its hot.
TT: She doesnt use the bed spread, right?
PR: Right.
]T: Can you describe the blankets again is it, I take it a fairly light weight cotton blanket?
PR: Yeah, kind of a loose weave blanket.
TT: Okay. Okay. What I would like to do is show you a picture of a blanket, its got a scale and its a white blanket with what you describe as a loose weave and all that. Its got a scale around the outside is all. Is this, does that kind of look like the blanket, there you go Pat, that was on her bed that night? And again, its uh, its folded up. Hard, kind of hard to see.
PR: Yeah. Yeah, it was probably, yeah.
TT: Does that look like the kind of blanket that was on her bed.
PR: Um hum.
TT: Or was that the blanket on her bed?
PR: I, it may have been, yeah. I cant, I mean it sort of looks a little pinkish. It was . . .
TT: And, and that might be . . .
PR: It was white.
TT: . . .that might be the coloring of the picture.
PR: Yeah.
TT: Uh, because the colors are not very good.
PR: Right.
TT: Its actually an all white blanket.
PR: Is it? Um hum.
TT: The colors are kind of deceiving on that.
PR: Yeah. It, it could have been.
---------------------------------------------
22 THOMAS HANEY: So that lighter
23 blanket that you talked about would have been
24 tucked in between the mattress and the box
25 spring?
0247
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum. Oh, you
2 mean -- you know how you make it, tuck it right
3 here, you know.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Under the mattress?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, right, so it
6 doesn't pull out.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: So the blanket would
8 have been tucked all the way down to the foot of
9 the bed.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct, under
11 this, under that.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Then the bedspread
13 looks like it's properly and evenly distributed
14 at the foot of the bed?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: You're right.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you see the
17 blanket in there at all?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: She didn't, the
20 blanket never worked itself out and laid loose
21 on top of the bed, did it?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, sometimes.
23 TRIP DeMUTH: You know, completely
24 untucked, that's what I am asking. Do you know
25 how JonBenet slept, if that was a normal
0248
1 practice or was it tucked in?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, something
3 that kind of heavy, you know, this was fairly
4 heavy. It was -- it would be unlikely that it
5 would be completely out, without being pulled
6 out.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Without the bedspread
8 being disturbed also?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I would think.
10 THOMAS HANEY: When you put
11 JonBenet to bed on Christmas night, was that
12 lightweight blanket in the bed?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I
14 can't say for sure.
15 THOMAS HANEY: Take a second and go
16 back to that routine that night of --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, God. I can't
18 remember exactly.
19 THOMAS HANEY: But it should have
20 been?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Should have been.
22 THOMAS HANEY: Or would have been
23 probably?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably.
Well, PR said there was a white light blanket on the bed, although she couldn't id it from the photo, it apparently wasn't there after JBR was killed and there was a white light blanket around her, so I guess they could have had lots of these blankets, but I'm thinking it was taken from her bed. Unless you have credible evidence to the contrary?
TT: And is that what she had on the night of the 25th when she went to bed. When you pulled back all the sheets and stuff. Is that the uh, she had a couple of sheets, fitted sheets, flat sheets, this light blanket . . .
PR: Right.
TT: . . .and then the heavy kind of quilted. . .
PR: Well, right, um hum. I usually turn the bed spread down.
TT: Um hum.
PR: (Inaudible) didn’t have that on her because it’s hot.
TT: She doesn’t use the bed spread, right?
PR: Right.
]T: Can you describe the blankets again is it, I take it a fairly light weight cotton blanket?
PR: Yeah, kind of a loose weave blanket.
TT: Okay. Okay. What I would like to do is show you a picture of a blanket, it’s got a scale and it’s a white blanket with what you describe as a loose weave and all that. It’s got a scale around the outside is all. Is this, does that kind of look like the blanket, there you go Pat, that was on her bed that night? And again, it’s uh, it’s folded up. Hard, kind of hard to see.
PR: Yeah. Yeah, it was probably, yeah.
TT: Does that look like the kind of blanket that was on her bed.
PR: Um hum.
TT: Or was that the blanket on her bed?
PR: I, it may have been, yeah. I can’t, I mean it sort of looks a little pinkish. It was . . .
TT: And, and that might be . . .
PR: It was white.
TT: . . .that might be the coloring of the picture.
PR: Yeah.
TT: Uh, because the colors are not very good.
PR: Right.
TT: It’s actually an all white blanket.
PR: Is it? Um hum.
TT: The colors are kind of deceiving on that.
PR: Yeah. It, it could have been.
---------------------------------------------
22 THOMAS HANEY: So that lighter
23 blanket that you talked about would have been
24 tucked in between the mattress and the box
25 spring?
0247
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum. Oh, you
2 mean -- you know how you make it, tuck it right
3 here, you know.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Under the mattress?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, right, so it
6 doesn't pull out.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: So the blanket would
8 have been tucked all the way down to the foot of
9 the bed.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct, under
11 this, under that.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Then the bedspread
13 looks like it's properly and evenly distributed
14 at the foot of the bed?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: You're right.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you see the
17 blanket in there at all?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: She didn't, the
20 blanket never worked itself out and laid loose
21 on top of the bed, did it?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, sometimes.
23 TRIP DeMUTH: You know, completely
24 untucked, that's what I am asking. Do you know
25 how JonBenet slept, if that was a normal
0248
1 practice or was it tucked in?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, something
3 that kind of heavy, you know, this was fairly
4 heavy. It was -- it would be unlikely that it
5 would be completely out, without being pulled
6 out.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Without the bedspread
8 being disturbed also?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I would think.
10 THOMAS HANEY: When you put
11 JonBenet to bed on Christmas night, was that
12 lightweight blanket in the bed?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I
14 can't say for sure.
15 THOMAS HANEY: Take a second and go
16 back to that routine that night of --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, God. I can't
18 remember exactly.
19 THOMAS HANEY: But it should have
20 been?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Should have been.
22 THOMAS HANEY: Or would have been
23 probably?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably.
Well, PR said there was a white light blanket on the bed, although she couldn't id it from the photo, it apparently wasn't there after JBR was killed and there was a white light blanket around her, so I guess they could have had lots of these blankets, but I'm thinking it was taken from her bed. Unless you have credible evidence to the contrary?
Hmm. I'll give you this much, MF: you make things interesting. Doesn't really change things, though.
MurriFlower
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Hmm. I'll give you this much, MF: you make things interesting. Doesn't really change things, though.
I expect I should be grateful for even this small concession!
I'll interpret this lack of argument as a grudging acknowledgement that it is probably correct that the blanket she was found in came off her bed (rather than out of the dryer).
Don't diminish a small piece of evidence like this as of no importance! Just because you can't see that it changes matters much, it does, believe me.
It's a bit like the 2" x 2" piece of black tape, that was supposedly (according to your sources) on her mouth, not being anything like the piece of silver tape, quite a bit longer than that, depicted in the photo of the blanket.
While you're in a generous mood, how about acknowledging that these appear to be two completely different pieces of tape??
I expect I should be grateful for even this small concession!
When you got it, you got it.
I'll interpret this lack of argument as a grudging acknowledgement that it is probably correct that the blanket she was found in came off her bed (rather than out of the dryer).
It's an acknowledgement that I'm thinking about it. That doesn't mean I have no argument.
Don't diminish a small piece of evidence like this as of no importance!
I didn't say that. It could be important. It just might work in my favor.
Just because you can't see that it changes matters much, it does, believe me.
How do you figure?
It's a bit like the 2" x 2" piece of black tape, that was supposedly (according to your sources) on her mouth, not being anything like the piece of silver tape, quite a bit longer than that, depicted in the photo of the blanket.
While you're in a generous mood, how about acknowledging that these appear to be two completely different pieces of tape??
Sorry, MurriFlower. No can do. I've not seen anything to show what you claim is anything more than a mirage.
MurriFlower
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Sorry, MurriFlower. No can do. I've not seen anything to show what you claim is anything more than a mirage.
Hmm, how are your eyes, been tested lately? I posted earlier an extract from a JR interview where he was shown that particular photo and said that was not the piece of tape that he took off her mouth. Did you miss it?
Hmm, how are your eyes, been tested lately? I posted earlier an extract from a JR interview where he was shown that particular photo and said that was not the piece of tape that he took off her mouth. Did you miss it?
No, I saw it just fine. Trouble is, JR's not my idea of a credible source. I wouldn't mind seeing that photo myself.
Now, as for the blanket, we have LHP saying that it came from the dryer. I'm not sure I buy that, though. If it was from JB's bed, then it lends credence to my idea about things getting started in her bedroom.
MurriFlower
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=SuperDave;5358478]No, I saw it just fine. Trouble is, JR's not my idea of a credible source. I wouldn't mind seeing that photo myself.
Here 'tis
http://www.acandyrose.com/149blanket.jpg
Now, as for the blanket, we have LHP saying that it came from the dryer. I'm not sure I buy that, though. If it was from JB's bed, then it lends credence to my idea about things getting started in her bedroom.
Yep, I think that's a given.
Thanks. Look's like the underside of the tape to me.
Yep, I think that's a given.
Given or not, it's what I believe.
MurriFlower
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Thanks. Look's like the underside of the tape to me.
Spected you'd say that. Ok, if so, it's stuck on there right? So some of it must be turned backwards? And would that entire length be more than 2" would you think? That is as long as it is wide (2" x 2")?
Maddy, I'd expect those thoughts to occur to a hardened criminal, not a highly agitated amateur.
Are you sure they weren't semi-hardened? Define the difference. Don't you get it? How are you qualified to figure out what they should or shouldn't be thinking? And, BTW, if you look closely, you hand them all kinds of credit with hardened criminal capabilities. You need to step back and take a good, hard and very long look at what you offer here. If you will, and you won't, you could end up learning some important things.
Hmm, how are your eyes, been tested lately? I posted earlier an extract from a JR interview where he was shown that particular photo and said that was not the piece of tape that he took off her mouth. Did you miss it?
How did Pat reach the stick that locked the wine-cellar door?
I expect I should be grateful for even this small concession!
Hmm. I'll give you this much, MF: you make things interesting. Doesn't really change things, though.
Oh kind lord and Master, thou art full of mercy and knowledge. We thank thee for thine most kind admission of our mere existence and especially for thine kinds words as to our humble strivings to offer something non-offensive to thee, the Great One. Amen and amen.
No, I saw it just fine. Trouble is, JR's not my idea of a credible source. I wouldn't mind seeing that photo myself.
Now, as for the blanket, we have LHP saying that it came from the dryer. I'm not sure I buy that, though. If it was from JB's bed, then it lends credence to my idea about things getting started in her bedroom.
The blanket was the one from her bed, but it wasn't pulled OFF her bed. Go back to ACR and look at crime photos of her bed, and read the interview where LE speaks with Patsy about the bed being undisturbed at the foot end and the unlikelihood that anyone could have taken a blanket from that bed without disturbing the bedspread that was on the bed. The blanket was in the dryer in the basement, where it was laundered almost every day.
Spected you'd say that.
I strive to please. Look, I'm not like you might think, okay? I think that you have shown a lot of drive on this. Heck, you thought of something that got by most everyone else. But, look at it from my vantage point: this case has been absolutely PLAGUED with leaks. From ALL parties involved; let's not kid ourselves. If there were any indication that more than one strip of tape was used, MUCH less found (at the crime scene of all places), someone from either side would have mentioned it by now.
Ok, if so, it's stuck on there right?
I suppose so.
So some of it must be turned backwards?
If not all of it. So yes.
And would that entire length be more than 2" would you think? That is as long as it is wide (2" x 2")?
It could be. From that picture, it looks roughly half again as long as it was wide. Still pretty small, though. Perhaps I was misinformed as to its size.
DNASolves
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