IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

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I'm thinking, was Lyric homeschooled? I want to say that. But you're right, very little, well, on anything really. I'd be interested to know interests, habits, quirks. What if there was some tiny link there? We need only one thread to unravel this.

I'm catching up... and yeah I'd love to know more about interests, habits, quirks, etc. Tlcox a few threads ago did post what little we know that's been released and I greatly appreciated it: Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #10.

As far as schools, IIRC Lyric's school was mentioned and Elizabeth was homeschooled for awhile, then started going to public school this year. It's briefly mentioned in the above post. Nothing's ever been said about bullying.
 
Speculation that the girls were still alive was based on a tip. At the same time, Elizabeth's dad found a voicemail on his phone where she said that she missed him. The message was 9 days old (pre-dating the abduction), but dad didn't know it ... at first. It was later discovered that the message was from the day before she disappeared. Could this be the tip that led police to believe that the girls were still alive? Maybe.

After that one statement, where FBI said they believed the girls were alive ... which was made about 8 days after the girls disappeared, it has not been repeated. I suspect that the tip did not pan out.

BBM

IIRC == it was based on 'physical evidence'?
 
The parents' former drug/crime problems definitely mean that there may be people in their pasts with motive to kidnap the girls - to shut them up, or to try to force them back into association with a drug enterprise.

It's possible that this is one reason they have not had an even higher media profile. Cops or attorneys may be coaching them carefully about what to say and do.

I do know of a drug user who had her child kidnapped and held when she owed her dealer money. When she paid, she got the girl back.
 
Well, I was hoping I'd come back from my weekend visit with relatives to find some good news...heck any news. It is frustrating to be so far away physically and want to do more to help find these girls! I'd love to be doing some covert ops or "interviewing" POI. All I can do from where I am now is pray, speculate, formulate ideas from the info we have. My little girl is upset that I won't let her go play in the wooded area out back alone. I could not bear being in the position these girls' parents are. My heart is with the families and community.:please:
 
Re :pic of Biker.. Why is he wearing gloves on hot day?? jus sayin... kidding I think People bike all the time around here never seen gloves must be an advid biker I guess ..:0 Is he the one that propped bikes up against fence ?? Or were they always like in first place . I dont think girls biking would leave theyr bikes in path unless in a hurry Im sure I read somewher at one point they were laying in the path and a Biker had to swerve to miss something to the sorts then next moment read leaning against fence. Im going with the first I ever read in the beginning of this (biker had to swerve) and then the latter came someone proped up against fence.

I have seen bicycle riders on the hottest days on the side of highways and I believe it is to keep a better grip on the handles of the bike due to sweat, but just imo.
 
I'm catching up... and yeah I'd love to know more about interests, habits, quirks, etc. Tlcox a few threads ago did post what little we know that's been released and I greatly appreciated it: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #10.

As far as schools, IIRC Lyric's school was mentioned and Elizabeth was homeschooled for awhile, then started going to public school this year. It's briefly mentioned in the above post. Nothing's ever been said about bullying.

Thank you! Yes, Elizabeth.
 
I do have a feeling that someone involved is posting here from reading between the lines and plus i have had some dreams about it too. May not be the perp per say, but someone with some inside knowledge and maybe a guilty conscience.

For the record it aint me...:) I am 631 miles away and my days (and nights) are accounted for! But i am done posting theories on this case. I think LE has a good bead on this one and its only a matter of time. Gonna watch the nascar race instead. Woo hoo.

I agree with you that someone who is in the know and close to the situation is probably reading these posts. I would bet they are not registered but guest lurkers or if registered are just lurking. They would not want to be noticed. If they did register it may be because they want to say something but are afraid of consequences to themselves or someone close to them. :twocents:
 
I agree with you that someone who is in the know and close to the situation is probably reading these posts. I would bet they are not registered but guest lurkers or if registered are just lurking. They would not want to be noticed. If they did register it may be because they want to say something but are afraid of consequences to themselves or someone close to them. :twocents:

I would agree, but is this forum (Websleuth) a popular forum that people would know of? I just happened to come across it myself.
 
I would agree, but is this forum (Websleuth) a popular forum that people would know of? I just happened to come across it myself.

It pulls up if you're searching (google) specific names used on here.
 
I'm thinking, was Lyric homeschooled? I want to say that. But you're right, very little, well, on anything really. I'd be interested to know interests, habits, quirks. What if there was some tiny link there? We need only one thread to unravel this.

Elizabeth is homeschooled. Lyric's school is on Hollye's map, if you want to know the name & location.
 
It pulls up if you're searching (google) specific names used on here.


Right now, if you google Lyric's full name for the last hour, WS postings are the first two sites listed.
 
I would agree, but is this forum (Websleuth) a popular forum that people would know of? I just happened to come across it myself.

I heard about this forum from a friend following another case and also saw about it on a FB post by another person on my friend's list. It is not difficult to do a search for this type of forum I'm sure. In fact when I type in "current crime forums" on Google search, it comes right up.
 
In one of her interviews, Heather said that Elizabeth had been homeschooled up until last fall. Then they had to enroll her in school because of Heather's health problems.
 
Good post. I think many people are trained to drop to the ground...that comes after attempting to run. If you are caught, then you drop to the ground. If the perp has you and is trying to drag you into a vehicle, dropping to the ground makes this task much harder. It is about gravity, weight distribution and kinesics (or the body’s ability to function to lift, carry, etc using poor body mechanics). So, yes, if someone grabs you, it is so much harder to lift or drag say 100 lbs off the ground, then to grab that person at the perps waist level and heave. As a parent, if you have ever have had a child do what I call melting or floppy kid when they don't get their way, most of us can understand how hard it is to pick up that child off the floor...LOL. Even a toddler can be hard to pick-up. So dropping to the ground, can save lives if the perp already has you.

If a predator demands you get into a vehicle, studies have shown that it is best to avoid that at all costs, even at risk of your life. The reason being is most predators have a "plan" in their minds that they have fantasized about, enjoy and finally get the energy to act on. It starts with day dreaming, then they get so attached to that scenario, they must act on it to ease or satisfy the turmoil in side. That is why people have MO's or commit similar crimes...it is that obsession and psychological attachment to a certain scenario in their heads. Part of what they are doing by moving a victim from point A is acting on this plan and fantasy they created in their heads so they can be at point B where they can get off on their fantasy. Once you are in a vehicle, your future is pretty much predetermined. Some people think they can talk their way out of things or comply to live, but if the perp thinks death is part of his plan, it is part of the plan. By not getting in the vehicle you disrupt the pre-planned scenario. Often when perps fantasize, they don't plan for the victim to fight back. So, by refusing to get in a vehicle you actually save your own life, by disrupting the perp’s plans and throwing of the power balance.

I think with both of the run like hell scenarios, if you have the chance, do run like hell. However, most training recognizes that usually by the time the person realizes they are in danger; they actually are restrained or physically controlled by the perp. I think the run like hell thing IS omitted, because in most situations where you need life-saving training, having too many steps...like run, if that does not work do this, if that does not work try this, etc...Can cause more confusion with the victim and actually make them more likely to forget every type of training, self doubt themselves, the victims mind often underestimates the level of threat or goes into a denial state and easily play into the perps hands. The purpose of training is to give very simple steps the average person can utilize in a horrific situation where they do not have time or mental clarity to process things. Kind of like Fire safety….Stop, Drop, Roll. Simple, people can remember that in crisis most of the time.

I was going to snip for space but your whole post was so good, I couldn't figure out where to snip. Thank you very much for this. I never thought about a lot of these things. The "floppy kid" example is great. Thinking about kids throwing a fit in grocery stores - when they're REALLY throwing a fit, they're usually on the ground so it's hard for Mom/Dad to pick them up. Wow. Completely makes sense to do this if "run like hell" doesn't work.

In terms of the "stranger danger" talk I know I was never trained to drop to the ground or if I was it never stuck. But stop/drop/roll sure did, for the simplicity of it. Now that I think about it I remember being totally overwhelmed when I took a self defense class in my 20s. There was too much to remember about what to do when the person grabbed you or approached you in various scenarios. "Trust your gut" stuck, and "never get in a vehicle" did too. Reinforced recently by the movie Knight & Day for those who've seen it. :)

I feel for all of you trying to teach these lessons to kids but yet reading here and probably terrified of what could happen! I'd be wanting to give the kid(s) hours of what "could happen" and how to avoid it, but now I'm seeing the value of simplicity in a panic situation. I tend to agree with ther posts that have mentioned there would be some kind of evidence if the girls had dropped and fought. I still think it was someone they knew, if they made it there at all. :(
 
I often see posts that rule out an option based on the risk that the perp is taking. These individuals have most likely have had a habit of risk-taking behaviors throughout their lives. Many of the more well-known cases of child abduction where the child was found and the perp charged and prosecuted (ie Amber Dubois, Victoria Stafford, Sandra Cantu, Adam Walsh, etc.) involved perps who took high risks by abducting children from public places and/or well traveled streets. They were just seconds away from being seen by a witness. Risk level does not seem to be a factor that seems to place highly in whether or not a child can or will be abducted.
Some children were abducted from their own homes with a family member sleeping in another room (ie Polly Klaas, Jessica Lundsford.) These were crimes of opportunity with high risk involved. IMO the question shouldn't be "why would he/she risk it?", but "how could it be done, considering the risks involved?"
How many cases of almost abductions have ended with the perp running away and never being caught or charged? I would imagine there are probably a lot of failed attempts before the perp actually succeeds at his/her crime.
These sickos don't think like a normal person "What if I get caught?" but think instead "How can I get away with this?."
 
I have seen bicycle riders on the hottest days on the side of highways and I believe it is to keep a better grip on the handles of the bike due to sweat, but just imo.

Yep. As a former wheelchair user I can tell you that similar gloves were essential for using the chair, especially on really hot days. I would think it'd be a little less essential but still similar for biking.
 
Uh oh! Now I fel guilty for being registered but just lurking, so I will introduce myself. I have been following these posts from the very beginning. I live in DES Moines and have never followed a case before, but since It's Iowa, It hit home. I have kids 8,10, and 14. I was pretty convinced at first that this was related to family and drugs. Now I fear more that it is a sex offender. It makes me very sad. I read every single post, but I like to take a long time to think things through and am shy about posting. I read here mostly to get a clearer sense of the story. I've learned how to sleuth fairly well from listening in, and listening to the scanner has been enlightening. One thing that's been an eye-opener to me is how distorted things get in the media, just by poor word choices alone. When I fist registered I was ready to post a lot of my opinions and ideas, but I couldn't get signed on properly! Then after the passage of time people pretty much have gone through every imaginable scenario, and I don't quite know what else to add. Anyway, I'm lurking but I'm not creepy!
 
In one of her interviews, Heather said that Elizabeth had been homeschooled up until last fall. Then they had to enroll her in school because of Heather's health problems.

Elizabeth had been enrolled at Poyner Elementary School.
 
Uh oh! Now I fel guilty for being registered but just lurking, so I will introduce myself. I have been following these posts from the very beginning. I live in DES Moines and have never followed a case before, but since It's Iowa, It hit home. I have kids 8,10, and 14. I was pretty convinced at first that this was related to family and drugs. Now I fear more that it is a sex offender. It makes me very sad. I read every single post, but I like to take a long time to think things through and am shy about posting. I read here mostly to get a clearer sense of the story. I've learned how to sleuth fairly well from listening in, and listening to the scanner has been enlightening. One thing that's been an eye-opener to me is how distorted things get in the media, just by poor word choices alone. When I fist registered I was ready to post a lot of my opinions and ideas, but I couldn't get signed on properly! Then after the passage of time people pretty much have gone through every imaginable scenario, and I don't quite know what else to add. Anyway, I'm lurking but I'm not creepy!

Great post and :welcome: :fireworks: to WS.
 
There are plenty of publications out there correlating socio-economics and child endangerment, abuse, etc. Most demonize the poor, the single parents, etc. Most do not offer any means of practical and realistic solutions. However, it is also arguable that money does not have any relationship to one's ability to parent or raise a safe and healthy child. Psychosocial issues are just as common through-out the class system. It is just money is equal to power and money can buy silence or intimidate victims from speaking. That being said in this case the family itself is a victim of many things, including society and media. No child is totally safe from predators based on greater socio-economics status, ever.

The thanks button wasn't enough.

What you just said.

It seems clear to me that Eileen Hawkeye spoke the truth: the reason we don't hear as much about child victims of the rich is that there are so few rich people, period.

I can certainly think of several people who were raised with wealth and are survivors of child sexual abuse. And in every case, the perp(s) weren't the hired help, they were family members or close friends.

In the US, to be poor is to be scorned. The assumption is that poor people just don't try hard enough and to be poor is indicative of a character flaw. The truth is, the system is set up to penalise the poor and further enrich the rich.

I'll step off my soapbox now.
 
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