Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #5 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

JDB said:

I saw an interview right after Sierra went missing. There were no workers in The field where the bus stop is. As they were working another field. No worker saw Sierra the day she went missing.

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Thank you! That's the interview to which I was referring. If I recall correctly, the field had been worked recently but not on that particular day. I highly doubt that any farm workers have anything to do with this, but it's too bad that they weren't working that day, as they may have witnessed something.

IHAVENOCLUE said:

I, too, thought about this, but forgot to post it.
I have heard of perps attending vigils, funerals, etc, of their victim, and I transferred this to a possibilility that a perp would be interested in attending searches, too.
What do you think, sarx and other Search and Rescue force members?

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I've heard of family members leading the searchers to the body when it turned out they were the one who killed them, but that doesn't happen too often, I hope. However, in the movie that was made years ago about the little girl who inspired the Amber Alert, the guy who had abducted and killed her is the one who "found" the body. And in the meantime, he was already planning the kidnapping of another girl.
I personally don't think LE has time to check out every volunteer, but I know that search organizations try their best. Who is to say that it couldn't be someone who is just lucky enough not to have been caught yet? Or this could be his first time to pull something like this off.

TxLady2 said:

I've heard of family members leading the searchers to the body when it turned out they were the one who killed them, but that doesn't happen too often, I hope. However, in the movie that was made years ago about the little girl who inspired the Amber Alert, the guy who had abducted and killed her is the one who "found" the body. And in the meantime, he was already planning the kidnapping of another girl.
I personally don't think LE has time to check out every volunteer, but I know that search organizations try their best. Who is to say that it couldn't be someone who is just lucky enough not to have been caught yet? Or this could be his first time to pull something like this off.

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Amber Hagerman's murder has never been solved. I think they may have a suspect in mind, but no one has been charged.

! ..1faith!

Yes, it does happen where the person who committed the crime inserts themselves in some way into the investigation. This is exactly why video is taken of vigils, ID's are scanned for searches, etc. They follow up....

I still don't think that the search being done locally is going to lead to Sierra. I think that the change of clothing was either for plans she had for after school, or that they had been left in the bag from a previous day. The neatly folded doesn't puzzle me. If I were going to take a change of clothing with me and only had a cloth bag, I would make sure to fold that clothing very neatly. Why bring a change of clothing if you are just going to them haphazardly in a bag. The clothes would look like you slept in them. Well, if going to another girl’s house later I guess that wouldn't matter. But Sierra had to have another small bag with her personal effects ...toothbrush, toothpaste?, deodorant, hairbrush, makeup, cell phone charger. If she was going to her father's she probably has her own set of personal items there. So, the spare clothing is not much of a statement in my mind. Also, I disagree with the suggestions that this may be a military man just because the clothing was "neatly folded". Our military have enough bad reps as it is. My heart goes out to them and their own personal wars. I think the reason LE originally added those folded words was to suggest that she had made plans for later, thus she took off with someone she knew.
She has been missing too long to consider that she is being held captive somewhere. I think that the faint hope of an escape is just wishful thinking. I think that Sierra was taken to a distant remote place where she was “used” and then murdered. No witnesses. That person(s) would most likely want to delay discovery for as long as possible to make collecting trace evidence difficult. If this was a "thrill killing" then she may be found out in the open, so the monster could sit back and re-live his experience as the story unfolds on TV. There hasn't been any outrageous behavior being displayed, and she hasn't been found yet, so I don’t believe that this was a done for thrills. I think this perp is going to avoid publicity. I think that if/when Sierra is found, it may be depicted as another “unidentified body” discovered accidentally by a hiker, a hunter, or some other unfortunate person who wasn't out looking for dead people.
On the possibility that Sierra knew the person she went with, once she got in that car she had to be immediately subdued - and that's what puzzles me. The gun threat is hard to imagine, unless this was pre-planned. How many low-life molesters are out and about in that area with guns.
I don't believe the handcuff/condom discovery had anything to do with this case. If anything, it appears to me as a cruel teenage type prank.
IMHO

I find all of these never-ending emerging horror stories deeply disturbing. So many young people that will never reach their full potential, robbed of life, of events they should have participated in and experienced. There will always be an unfilled blank space “ “ after they are gone. Just Emptiness. Like starting to fill in a questionnaire, and needing to stop because there is nothing more to add. Empty spaces. Empty everything. The devastated families left behind to struggle with their grief, to try to understand why this happened to their loved one. Why? Why?

IMHO

So I guess nothing was found in the searches today? Or it hasn't leaked yet to the media...

Where are you Sierra?!! lease:

Niner said:

So I guess nothing was found in the searches today? Or it hasn't leaked yet to the media...

Where are you Sierra?!! lease:

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imkeylime said:

So in that article ("Sierra LaMar Search Moves Off-Road Saturday"), the box is described as being labeled "stainless steel handcuffs." That wording seems weird to me: I'm dubious that teens out having sex would label a box that way. It seems almost too specific (i.e., "stainless steel"), which might suggest staging by someone who's playing games ... maybe not even a perp but someone out to stir things up by mimicking one? JMO.

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Sounds like a manufacturer's label to me.

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"If the grass is high, get close — close enough to see a necklace," the gray-haired Boyd instructed volunteers. Sierra is petite, he reminded the searchers, while urging them to look out for clothing or the colored rubber bracelets teens like to wear.

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In the field, they found a blue latex glove. An old rope. Spare bits of duct tape. A long shoelace. The day wore on

Keith carefully tagged and noted each discovery.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-missing-20120331,0,6630459.story

Whatever it takes. Thank you Marc Klaas and Volunteers. Whatever it takes.

imkeylime said:

It still makes me curious. The thing is, I'd imagine teenagers getting handcuffs for sex play from a place like Spencer's Gifts ... more novelty items, if you will (like with fur, etc.). Spencer's also carries nickel-plated ones for $9.99 (http://www.spencersonline.com/product/metal-handcuffs11/). I suppose some kids might order them other places online, like the example.

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Nickel and chrome plated handcuffs run a fairly high risk of splintering off the coating, leading to unpleasant procedures at the dermatologist's office. Which, if you are a teen, then leads to uncomfortable questioning about "how did you get a splinter of metal in your WRIST?"

Go for the good stuff, you'll never regret it.

JDB said:

Just heard on the local news here in the Bay Area Mark Klass is excepting over 1000 people today at least and they are ready. Mark says the search center is now a well oiled machine running smoothly processing the volunteers getting them registered and giving them what they need to look for . And than out the door so they can start searching .

Also for those who know anything about football the 49ers Alex Smith QB showed up. When asked why off camera he said.to help find Sierra not about him but her.

All please today's weather here is ugly please pray today they will find key clues .
Let's bring Sierra home.

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WOWZA!

And good for Alex Smith. I'm sure he realises that with his fame, he can increase awareness in a whole new population of watchers. That's using fame for good, rather than jumping the line at restaurants.

Dee226 said:

The handcuffs are out of place. Even if someone was using them for fun it seems unlikely to use them in a field. Never used them myself but aren't the people handcuffed to something like the bed? Where would they handcuff them to, the steering wheel? Doesn't sound like sexual fun.
I'm not saying they're connected to Sierra but it could be for another person who's missing. They did find the remains of that man from years ago so there are potentially killers out there looking for victims.

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The "classic" use is to handcuff wrists together, just as in police use. Or handcuff in front, then have the handcuffed partner put their hands behind their head and run a rod through the angle of the elbows for a more comfortable, flexible position that still immobilises the hands. Another use is arms around a tree or other stationary object.

If the cuffs are large enough and the ankles small enough, well, there's a whole lot more that can be done.

For some people (usually teens into early 20s), privacy is a big, expensive problem. The great outdoors is one of their only options (motels are expensive and often won't rent to anyone who looks underage, etc). For other people, being in the great outdoors is just nice on it's own. And for yet other people, being in the great outdoors gives it all an added "what if we get caught?" thrill.

I'm not the only poster who has confessed to using handcuffs in the great outdoors. Back in my younger days, of course, when I had more than a few wild <cough> notions.

epiphany said:

Snipped

"If the grass is high, get close — close enough to see a necklace," the gray-haired Boyd instructed volunteers. Sierra is petite, he reminded the searchers, while urging them to look out for clothing or the colored rubber bracelets teens like to wear.

Snipped

In the field, they found a blue latex glove. An old rope. Spare bits of duct tape. A long shoelace. The day wore on

Keith carefully tagged and noted each discovery.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-missing-20120331,0,6630459.story

Whatever it takes. Thank you Marc Klaas and Volunteers. Whatever it takes.

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Reading your article it just broke my heart, thinking of Sierra and what she has gone thru. The journo put a lot of feeling into writing it. Dittoing your thanks to Marc Klaas and everyone who is putting their energy into finding Sierra.

She has been gone about 2 weeks and I hold out great hope she is still alive. I entered forum world during the Elizabeth Smart case and it took 9 mos. for her to be found. Yes, a miracle for Elizabeth but I pray now for a miracle for Sierra.


PS: There was a girl who went missing in Ca last year and they did allot of searches for her. I can't remember her name, but am wondering if anyone knows it. Ta

bellyup said:

The clothes being folded in the Juicy bag immediately made me think ... military.

I think LE needs to seriously be looking at military people in the area...

My gut has been and keeps screaming military.

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while this seems like a plausible theory when first read, two things stand out if i'm reading you correctly and you think this military person folded her clothes before throwing them away:

1) why would this person take the time to neatly fold her clothes then take even more time to place the items neatly back into her bag before getting rid of the bag? wouldn't it seem more likely that the person would just scoop everything up, toss, and go?

2) why would a military person -where having your things folded neat and orderly is required and expected- utilize these same techniques if he were involved in a crime, esp. one like an abduction? wouldn't it be too much of a "clue" to his identity? imo, he'd do the exact opposite.

sierra probably brought the folded clothes for later that day.

As I hear all the news of this heart rending case...I cannot help but think there's a war in America! living in Jamaica and flicking through the iPad news apps and CNN everyday, all we see and hear about is another "young girl missing". It is frightful actually that your own offspring can be snapped up right in front of your home or God forbid, IN your own home. It is time to fight back. Teach your children self defense tactics....I know I sound crazy but location is the first step apparently and this is advice to all of us women,
never ever allow anyone to transfer you anywhere or to the next location ..never get into a car of any stranger, even if it could be someone quite upheld in the community, this is what we should be teaching and telling our children everyday, and never stopping!

I pray for Sierra's safe return, but it just is not looking good based on the mere stats and history of cases of missing children. As for the fact that the school did not notify her mother or parents that she had not shown up to school that day until after 6 pm, this is ridiculous! So in fighting back against this epidemic of crime against young girls and women, schools MUST PLAY A PART TOO!

The first three hours are crucial in these cases, and so much time has already gone by. That day she went missing is the day of lost time, and it is so unfortunate that no one called her mother or parents to inquire where she was. What a travesty and seems like another tragedy.

I still pray for her safe return, as I also believe in miracles.

oceanblueeyes said:

That is the problem with cases like this. We really dont know. While we may think it was someone she knew it just as easily could have been a forced abduction and she didnt know the person or persons.

What bothers me is Sierra seemed to be a very social person and to drop off the face of the earth like this does give me pause as to whether she left voluntarily.

It certainly wouldnt be the first case we have discussed where a young teen went missing right out of the blue and no one saw or heard a thing. We like to think if she was forced against her will there would be some evidence of it, but sadly that doesnt have to be the case at all. If the perp had a weapon pulled on her ..automatically...human instincts kick in and the will to live is paramount. Not everyone kicks and screams. Some think if they are compliant they have more of a chance to live even if it turns out not to be the case.

Other than typical teenage complaining about her mother, I just dont see Sierra putting her family through all of this agony and worry. She just doesnt seem to type to run away.

Sadly, I think all the searches for Sierra will not turn up anything or lead LE to her whereabouts.

Throwing the purse and phone out could have been done so for a distraction so LE would think that Sierra is in that general area. He/she/they could have taken her further away from her home and disposed of her body elsewhere.

I do think Sierra is most likely deceased. It has been way too long to think otherwise, imo.

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BBM

I agree with all of the above.

As to the bolded part, followed way too many cases where family members believed with all their hearts that their loved one would have put up a huge fight... only to learn in the end that no, their family member was compliant out of fear.

Even with self defence classes, even with martial arts training, there is no way to accurately predict which people will fight and which will comply.

Even in the military, this is true. Studies show that only about 10% of all soldiers in WWII, for instance, deliberately shot to kill. In Vietnam, there were 52,000 bullets fired in the field for every enemy combatant killed.

It's always a comfort for a parent to think "MY kid would fight" but the reality is there is no way to predict this.

I think if Sierra were a runaway, she'd be the type to hang with her buddies either in Morgan Hill or in Fremont. She just had so many friends and was so well liked, it's clear her social skills were very good.

If she were doing the couchsurfing thing, she would have showed up before now with the heavy LE/FBI presence. No one would knowingly harbour her.

GrainneDhu said:

Nickel and chrome plated handcuffs run a fairly high risk of splintering off the coating, leading to unpleasant procedures at the dermatologist's office. Which, if you are a teen, then leads to uncomfortable questioning about "how did you get a splinter of metal in your WRIST?"

Go for the good stuff, you'll never regret it.

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Good to know! I have had teens bring really cheap handcuffs to a party and handcuff themselves together ... by the wrists. We're talking Target quality here ... not good.

I wish we knew for sure if the condoms were really in the handcuff box ... I've read that they were and that they weren't. If they weren't, it might have just been kids doing the above (although stainless steel ones sound more expensive).