Conrad Murray trial -Day two.

Was there any cream found on the list of items in the room that we know of?

If not, I am thinking the same as you guys. Dr. was going to hide some things or destroy them.

I also wonder what the oxygen tanks were for, but remember reading somewhere years ago MJ had some breathing issues. That was when he started covering his nose and mouth when outside, but cannot be sure if that is true. Wonder if it has anything to do with use of propofol?

Why do defence attorneys think they have to act so tuff and ruff in their cross? It doesn't really help their case any and makes them look like they are going after the witness like a bulldog. If they don't get any further information it's just bluster anyway.

I don't think the defence is going to get anything out of this witness to help the Dr. anyway. From the sounds of it he did everything right.

It sounds from this witness that everyone had their place in the household and no one went upstairs without express permission from Michael. Nobody got in the gates without permission, nobody went upstairs without permission, and the only one giving the permission was Michael.

I really am impressed with Williams testimony.
He did not let EC ruffle him one bit.

jmho

Thundar said:

It was normal the last few months for oxygen tanks to be there. The chef or the children would take them upstairs. Hey kids go downstairs and bring up daddy's oxygen tanks upstairs. How sad is that?

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I'm at work so only follow on HLN when I get home. Was this testified to? He had oxygen tanks the last few months? Well then that's way before Dr. Murray was hired wasn't it?

TIA for any clarification.

21merc7 said:

Was there any cream found on the list of items in the room that we know of?

If not, I am thinking the same as you guys. Dr. was going to hide some things or destroy them.

I also wonder what the oxygen tanks were for, but remember reading somewhere years ago MJ had some breathing issues. That was when he started covering his nose and mouth when outside, but cannot be sure if that is true. Wonder if it has anything to do with use of propofol?

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The drugs including the cream was eventually found once defendant was questioned by the police a few days after Michael died. I just do not believe defendant was all worked up about the vitiligo cream. All the drugs found are listed in the AR.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf

He should have been using oxygen with the Propofol and my understanding he did use it but not that morning. An empty tank was in the bedroom. :cry:

jmho

Thundar said:

Why do defence attorneys think they have to act so tuff and ruff in their cross? It doesn't really help their case any and makes them look like they are going after the witness like a bulldog. If they don't get any further information it's just bluster anyway.

I don't think the defence is going to get anything out of this witness to help the Dr. anyway. From the sounds of it he did everything right.

It sounds from this witness that everyone had their place in the household and no one went upstairs without express permission from Michael. Nobody got in the gates without permission, nobody went upstairs without permission, and the only one giving the permission was Michael.

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This one is doing his client no favors. He got nothing from Williams.
Reminds me of a rooster.


jmho

~n/t~ said:

I'm at work so only follow on HLN when I get home. Was this testified to? He had oxygen tanks the last few months? Well then that's way before Dr. Murray was hired wasn't it?

TIA for any clarification.

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It was testified that the oxygen tanks were there the last few months, since Dr. Murray was there. Dr. Murray's contract was proactive from May 1st. The one that was only signed by him and no one else.

Edited to add stuff

21merc7 said:

Was there any cream found on the list of items in the room that we know of?

If not, I am thinking the same as you guys. Dr. was going to hide some things or destroy them.

I also wonder what the oxygen tanks were for, but remember reading somewhere years ago MJ had some breathing issues. That was when he started covering his nose and mouth when outside, but cannot be sure if that is true. Wonder if it has anything to do with use of propofol?

Click to expand...

It can be used as a general anesthetic to put patients into a deep sleep that stops breathing,

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http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_633011.html

Ah,maybe "cream" is code for code "milk"?!

ETA: I agree, MJ would not care about the cream since the world knew. So much so that you would people who would say - "I have MJ disease" when you met someone that had vitiligo.

The oxygen tanks were to be taken to the supply store every Friday morning, that means for refill does it not? That was a lot of tanks for one week.

Thundar said:

It was testified that the oxygen tanks were there the last few months, since Dr. Murray was there.

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I'm confused. My understanding is Dr. Murray was hired on May 1, 2009. Michael died June 25th, 2009. How is that a few months? It's a month and half?

~n/t~ said:

I'm confused. My understanding is Dr. Murray was hired on May 1, 2009. Michael died June 25th, 2009. How is that a few months? It's a month and half?

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I am sure the witness said a few months and the prosecutor asked him since Dr. Murray, and the witness said yes.

Thundar said:

I am sure the witness said a few months and the prosecutor asked him since Dr. Murray, and the witness said yes.

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Thanks. It's so difficult following a case at work. :banghead:

BaileyandBella said:

I didn't think I would get wrapped up in this trial like I did with CA, but I am now....

I have errands to run, but I don't want to miss this.

This attorney is easy on the eyes.

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Me either, but I'm afraid I'm sucked in. This after promising DH I wasn't gonna watch it, and couldn't be bothered - uh oh.

I'm not understanding this talk about the "cream". What cream? What's it for? I had to step away so maybe I missed it.

Is this the cream that was in all the tabloids (years ago) that turned MJ from black to white? When so many peeps thought MJ was bleaching his skin?

Just speculating...

Mel

Thank you for the link to the autopsy report.

I believe MJ was in a lot of pain with all the osteoarthritis going on. I was shocked at the number of scars, and one on each wrist.

The toxicology is worth reading. Lots of meds found, lots without prescriptions. I don't know much about all the meds, but it all looks like dangerous dablings and mixes to me. That said, I am not sure all the drs were aware of all the meds, at least the ones with prescriptions attached.

Melanie said:

Me either, but I'm afraid I'm sucked in. This after promising DH I wasn't gonna watch it, and couldn't be bothered - uh oh.

I'm not understanding this talk about the "cream". What cream? What's it for? I had to step away so maybe I missed it.

Is this the cream that was in all the tabloids (years ago) that turned MJ from black to white? When so many peeps thought MJ was bleaching his skin?

Just speculating...

Mel

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There was prescription cream found for the vitilgo. But I think Dr Murray was going back to grab all the propofol and destroy it. "Cream" was the excuse he was trying to use.

I am an RN, and one very specific point about the propofol (marketed also under brand name Diprivan). Initially, it was used only as a short acting agent to induce anesthesia in the OR. After the patient was no longer conscious with the propofol drip the endotracheal tube would be inserted. Once the endotracheal tube was in the proper place, and the airway was patent, the anesthesiologist, or nurse anesthetist, would stop the propofol, and
other, longer acting anesthetic agents would be used.

After some time, propofol started to be used for anesthesia for some procedures. Usually, short procedures of less than one hour duration. Propofol will quickly put a person to sleep -from the time the drip starts to th moment when it is stopped. Patients wake up very quickly when the drip is stopped. There are some important things any responsible practitioner knows about
propofol: 1. The therapeutic dose is very narrow, and is based on the patient's weight; 2. 0xygen is used, usually via nasal cannula, and an pulse oximeter is used to monitor the patient's oxygen levels; 3. Constant measurement of vital signs, most importantly respirations, must be done until the drip is stopped,and the patient is fully awake. So, the main point I am referring to is that Dr. Murray should have been aware of the narrow therapeutic range of
propofol, and the necessity of monitoring vital signs. I have not heard any evidence yet that Dr. Murray did any ongoing monitoring on MJ.

Finally, I am intrigued by what effects MJ may have had from receiving the propofol on a nightly basis. It is meant to be used for procedures in a hospital, and that would not be something one has done daily. The info on it says it is excreted rapidly from the body. But,
could propofol cause side effects when used improperly -such as the use with MJ? iDK, but am going tp try to get some info. It might explain the tape played yesterday, when MJ sounded so out of it. Bottom line -IMO -Dr. Murray should have known not to administer propofol at home, and for the sole purpose of sleep. If I were a juror I would find him criminally negligent, JMHO.

I am liking the judge, no continuous sidebars, just objection, sustained or over ruled and on we go, plus he will not allow the defence atty to get into issues not relevant to this trial, therefore he cuts the defence off when they stray beyond the parameters he has set

the defence is not shaking this witness at all, but they need to, as he is the witness who testified that he made calls to him but appeared to be unwilling to call 911, and the jury must be thinking why was the Dr wasting time calling the personal assistant when he could have been calling 911, and this witness also testified that Dr Murray wished to remove items from the scene,

this is the type of witness prosecutors like, when he can he gets in little digs at Dr Murrays expense and there is nothing the defence attorney can do to stop him

Thundar said:

It was normal the last few months for oxygen tanks to be there. The chef or the children would take them upstairs. Hey kids go downstairs and bring up daddy's oxygen tanks upstairs. How sad is that?

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I recall that, back in the 1980s, Michael Jackson was known to sleep in an iron lung machine like those that were used for polio patients. Jackson believed that the constant flow of oxygen would keep him young. Perhaps MJ was accustomed to daily oxygen use for this purpose. jmo

I just want to keep an open mind for now and see what the evidence shows. I know most are already posting that Dr. Murray is guilty but I want to keep an open mind. I believe this is a complicated case and MJ's drug use started a long time ago. I watched a show not very long ago, where LaToya was promoting her new book and she said she thought Dr. Murray was the scapegoat. (this was surprising to me) I wish she would testify. Does anyone know if she is on the wittness list?