The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #1

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hurricane said:
I'm not sure if SPD would seek Vidocq's participation into the investigation, even if a family member asked for their help. They don't seem to want the FBI to help as the FBI has said that they have not been asked.


MHP is another matter though. They don't have to be asked by SPD in order to enter the case. I hope that is happening now.
Click to expand...

That is good to know that the Missouri Highway Patrol, a very competent law enforcement agency, could take this case and run with it. I do recall to the best of my recollection, however, that I was told by the current Sheriff of Greene County in 1992, who was then with the MHP that their help was said to be unneeded by the SPD. Go figure.

I've said forever that this case will only be solved when the political will of those higher up the food chain than the group running the investigation in the SPD are moved out of the way. I see nothing in the history of the investigation to give me comfort that they are up to the task of solving this case. I certainly hope the MHP gets involved and does what is required to move this case off dead center. The case is rapidly moving into the Jimmy Hoffa and Judge Crater category. If the truth be known, we know more about who "Jack the Ripper" was than who committed this crime. And we now almost certainly know who committed the "Black Dahlia" murder as new evidence has emerged but we know precious little about this case except it isn't getting solved. I hope you are right. It is long overdue.
 
Hurricane said:
I'm not sure if SPD would seek Vidocq's participation into the investigation, even if a family member asked for their help. They don't seem to want the FBI to help as the FBI has said that they have not been asked.


MHP is another matter though. They don't have to be asked by SPD in order to enter the case. I hope that is happening now.
Click to expand...

I hope the MHP is involved or does get involved since they don't need to be asked by the SPD. I am positive the SPD would not ask for or accept any help from the Vidocq Society. I just wish they could become involved though, the VS...Maybe the MHP wouldn't mind their involvement in the case if a family member from the Levitt/Streeter family requested it.
 
I'm curious why people seem to feel the broken porch globe may have been a ruse to get the women to open the door. I'm thinking of what I'd do, and if I heard someone out on my front porch break my porch light I'd make sure my door was locked and probably call the police. I'd certainly be really frightened. It seems like a risky thing to do. It's noisy, it suggests vandalism, and you risk having either the homeowners or neighbors call police because of suspicious glass-breaking.

It seems much more likely to me that in some sort of struggle one of the women or perpetrators broke the globe. I can even imagine a scenario where one of the women, realizing their fate, struck at the globe in order to leave a clue, knowing that there wasn't going to be much sign of a struggle inside the house.
 
ladymemac said:
I'm curious why people seem to feel the broken porch globe may have been a ruse to get the women to open the door. I'm thinking of what I'd do, and if I heard someone out on my front porch break my porch light I'd make sure my door was locked and probably call the police. I'd certainly be really frightened. It seems like a risky thing to do. It's noisy, it suggests vandalism, and you risk having either the homeowners or neighbors call police because of suspicious glass-breaking.

It seems much more likely to me that in some sort of struggle one of the women or perpetrators broke the globe. I can even imagine a scenario where one of the women, realizing their fate, struck at the globe in order to leave a clue, knowing that there wasn't going to be much sign of a struggle inside the house.
Click to expand...


There seems to be three scenarios that are often discussed as to how the porch light globe might have come to be broken:

The idea of breaking the globe to produce noise and therefore get someone to come and open the front door in the middle of the night, in order to gain entry. I agree with your comments. I would think that most people hearing a noise at that hour would first look out a window in an effort to see what was going on, before ever opening the door. And that is a possibility because Suzie’s bedroom blinds were found gapped open as if someone was looking out between the slats, and Sherrill’s blinds were found to be pulled up one quarter of their length. Therefore it can not be ruled out that they both looked out of their respective bedroom windows after hearing the globe being broken.

Another scenario discussed is the possibility that the globe was broken while someone tried to remove the bulb. There is a photo published in the News-Leader of Suzie and Sherrill taken on their front porch sometime earlier that spring. In the photo the porch light globe appears to be an inexpensive type globe that resembles an up-side-down funnel. The picture as it appears in the newspaper is quite grainy but it appears that the bottom of the globe is open (as in the top of a funnel) and it would be possible to remove the bulb without removing the globe. And to carry that thought just a bit further, the only thing holding the globe up might be the neck of the bulb. In other words there is no fitter with the typical three thumb screws in this type of light fixture. Therefore the globe might have been dropped and broken while the bulb was being loosened or removed in order to turn out the light, perhaps to help gain entry or before the women were removed from the house.

And the third scenario is as you suggest; that the globe was broken either by accident or on purpose as the women were being removed from the house.

If you are not familiar with the setting, there is only one neighbor’s house close and it is just to the west. The residence is otherwise surrounded by a dentist office to the east, and a 2-3 story office building to the south. The neighbor left town every weekend and has said that he had not met the women since they had moved in a few months before. Therefore no one was close by to have heard a glass globe break.
 
Hurricane said:
There seems to be three scenarios that are often discussed as to how the porch light globe might have come to be broken:

The idea of breaking the globe to produce noise and therefore get someone to come and open the front door in the middle of the night, in order to gain entry. I agree with your comments. I would think that most people hearing a noise at that hour would first look out a window in an effort to see what was going on, before ever opening the door. And that is a possibility because Suzie’s bedroom blinds were found gapped open as if someone was looking out between the slats, and Sherrill’s blinds were found to be pulled up one quarter of their length. Therefore it can not be ruled out that they both looked out of their respective bedroom windows after hearing the globe being broken.

Another scenario discussed is the possibility that the globe was broken while someone tried to remove the bulb. There is a photo published in the News-Leader of Suzie and Sherrill taken on their front porch sometime earlier that spring. In the photo the porch light globe appears to be an inexpensive type globe that resembles an up-side-down funnel. The picture as it appears in the newspaper is quite grainy but it appears that the bottom of the globe is open (as in the top of a funnel) and it would be possible to remove the bulb without removing the globe. And to carry that thought just a bit further, the only thing holding the globe up might be the neck of the bulb. In other words there is no fitter with the typical three thumb screws in this type of light fixture. Therefore the globe might have been dropped and broken while the bulb was being loosened or removed in order to turn out the light, perhaps to help gain entry or before the women were removed from the house.

And the third scenario is as you suggest; that the globe was broken either by accident or on purpose as the women were being removed from the house.

If you are not familiar with the setting, there is only one neighbor’s house close and it is just to the west. The residence is otherwise surrounded by a dentist office to the east, and a 2-3 story office building to the south. The neighbor left town every weekend and has said that he had not met the women since they had moved in a few months before. Therefore no one was close by to have heard a glass globe break.
Click to expand...

I happened to find myself in Home Depot a couple of days ago and looked at these type of globes. It does seem impossible in most all cases for that kind of globe to have come off absent the actual removal of the bulb itself. However, I haven't seen the actual fixture itself so I may stand to be corrected. Most of the ones I observed would not appear to clear the outside of the bulb. And the bulb itself was not damaged and was left burning. What I find more disturbing is that it would not appear possible that those glass shards could have been disposed of as stated in the official news accounts.
 
Missouri Mule said:
I happened to find myself in Home Depot a couple of days ago and looked at these type of globes. It does seem impossible in most all cases for that kind of globe to have come off absent the actual removal of the bulb itself. However, I haven't seen the actual fixture itself so I may stand to be corrected. Most of the ones I observed would not appear to clear the outside of the bulb. And the bulb itself was not damaged and was left burning. What I find more disturbing is that it would not appear possible that those glass shards could have been disposed of as stated in the official news accounts.
Click to expand...



With the funnel type globe it seems to me that the only way that it could have been broken without also breaking the bulb would be as the bulb was being removed. The globe could have easily been dropped when the bulb was removed. Perhaps whoever removed the bulb didn’t realize what type of globe it was, and that it would come down with the bulb.

One of the theories SPD has concerning how the abductors gained entry to the house that night is that one of the abductors was known by at least one of the women. That person approached the door alone while his accomplices waited in the dark and either rushed the door as the known person was let inside, or was let in moments later by that person.

It seems to me in this scenario that anyone known by the women and wanting to be recognized as such would want the porch light on. That would imply that the globe was not broken as a ruse to gain entry. I would think the abductors would have wanted the light off as they left with the women. They could have removed the bulb at that time, and dropped the globe.

But then why replace the bulb after the women were out of the house? And why not just turn out the light with the switch in the first place?
 
Hurricane said:
With the funnel type globe it seems to me that the only way that it could have been broken without also breaking the bulb would be as the bulb was being removed. The globe could have easily been dropped when the bulb was removed. Perhaps whoever removed the bulb didn’t realize what type of globe it was, and that it would come down with the bulb.

One of the theories SPD has concerning how the abductors gained entry to the house that night is that one of the abductors was known by at least one of the women. That person approached the door alone while his accomplices waited in the dark and either rushed the door as the known person was let inside, or was let in moments later by that person.

It seems to me in this scenario that anyone known by the women and wanting to be recognized as such would want the porch light on. That would imply that the globe was not broken as a ruse to gain entry. I would think the abductors would have wanted the light off as they left with the women. They could have removed the bulb at that time, and dropped the globe.

But then why replace the bulb after the women were out of the house? And why not just turn out the light with the switch in the first place?
Click to expand...

You've covered most of my possible scenarios as well. I would guess that the reasons he/they didn't turn off the switch was because they wanted the light on and they didn't reach back into the house because the house had already been scrubbed of fingerprints and DNA. And time began to play an ever greater role with daylight rapidly approaching.

Regardless of the reasons the globe might have been broken, why would they want the lamp on? The only reason I can think is that they wanted it on was to illuminate the inside of the darkened van as they were securing the women and their flashlights didn't work or more likely, one perpetrator was working alone. Trying to do this in the absence of light would have been difficult. This is a rough analogy. I once had a significant armadillo problem. The usual course of action is to shoot the animal but the problem is that he usually only comes out in the night. Now trying to sight the weapon in the absence of light is almost impossible. And this is what I would guess is what occurred with the van. The one individual needed the light and as soon as he was through loading the women he left with the light on.

And with the one perpetrator scenario, we have such a person currently in prison without an alibi who will neither deny nor admit to the crime.

Then the question is why did he pick this house? What did he expect to find there? And how would he have known that? This goes to motive.
 
Some new thinking today. The case is clouded with so many missing pieces that it is like a large jigsaw puzzle that just won't fit together without great difficulty. In any event, for those who have followed this case here and elsewhere, there are two salient issues to be resolved. 1) would be the color of the van, and 2) entry into the home.

I have for a long time had doubts about the official version of the van color being "moss green." I have believed it was dirty white in color being that it was seen in the neighborhood prior to abductions. That view is currently under serious review. The second thing is how entry was gained to the home and the mystery of the glass globe. That needs to be seriously reconsidered as well. For that I would suggest anyone who has access to the "48 hour" tape, look at it very carefully.

What I have not revised my view is regarding the inmate in Lovelady, Texas. Since he has no alibi and a deplorable criminal history, was known to be in the area prior to the abductions and for other reasons, and although I had previously dismissed him as a blowhard, I am now persuaded that he is more likely than not involved.

To sum up: 1) Van color should be revisited. 2) Entry circumstances should be thoroughly looked at, and 3) prime suspect remains my prime suspect based on known information. Since I have been so adament that the van color was not "moss green" I felt I should make known my revised views. I'm still not convinced one way or another except that I believe a van of this vintage (Dodge A108) was more likely than not involved in the crime.

More likely than not, the unexpected appearance of the young women was a triggering event. Murder may never have been the intention but it was the result.
 
ladymemac said:
I'm curious why people seem to feel the broken porch globe may have been a ruse to get the women to open the door. I'm thinking of what I'd do, and if I heard someone out on my front porch break my porch light I'd make sure my door was locked and probably call the police. I'd certainly be really frightened. It seems like a risky thing to do. It's noisy, it suggests vandalism, and you risk having either the homeowners or neighbors call police because of suspicious glass-breaking.

It seems much more likely to me that in some sort of struggle one of the women or perpetrators broke the globe. I can even imagine a scenario where one of the women, realizing their fate, struck at the globe in order to leave a clue, knowing that there wasn't going to be much sign of a struggle inside the house.
Click to expand...

I think you are probably correct in substance. I would suggest that someone; either the perp(s) or one of the women touched the globe upon leaving the house. It simply fell to the porch and broke. I have a similar globe that I obtained and its inside dimensions are 2 9/16" in diameter. It weighs one pound. It is typical for this era and is of the type held on by three thumb screws at the top of the fixture. A standard bulb is 2 3/8" in diameter. The globe could have fallen to the porch without breaking the bulb as there is almost 1/4" of clearance. It is not very logical that the original bulb was broken and replaced by a second bulb only to be left on.

It is virtually a certainty that the women were forcibly taken out of the front door and placed into the van from the side doors as it had been backed into area just south of the carport where the mother's vehicle was placed. The lit bulb may very well have been used to illuminate the inside of the vehicle. The exit time was probably quite limited. This photo taken of the house helps to explain how this might be possible.

http://host473.ipowerweb.com/~truecrim/home/1525513782_l.jpg

I do not believe that the single perp theory should be ruled out nor do I believe that it should be assumed that entry was gained through the front door. And it has not been established that the shards of the broken globe were not recovered by the police detectives. My own view is that the shards were in fact recovered and are in the police evidence room. To my knowledge there is no definitive statement by the police that states the shards were not recovered; only that they would have liked to have seen the shards while still on the porch itself. The meaning is not the same.
 
Hey everyone - long time, no post! Crazy travel schedule the past few months, but have enjoyed getting caught up on everyone's posts.

Richard - question. I know it's been discussed that the crime scene was scrubbed - and that the subsequent investigation revealed no DNA and/or fingerprints from anyone other than those who could be expected to be there. So doesn't that logically point to an "inside" job? Meaning someone who could have logically been expected to be there?
 
Just another thought regarding the broken globe. If it were someone known to one or all of the women, seems they would want the light on for identification being late at night, etc. And that the point probably wasn't to extinguish the light, because they simply could have turned if off before leaving - but if they were trying to load the women into a van backed into the drive - perhaps a door swings open and knocks just the globe off?
 
BuddyMidwest said:
Just another thought regarding the broken globe. If it were someone known to one or all of the women, seems they would want the light on for identification being late at night, etc. And that the point probably wasn't to extinguish the light, because they simply could have turned if off before leaving - but if they were trying to load the women into a van backed into the drive - perhaps a door swings open and knocks just the globe off?
Click to expand...

A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since I last posted. The globe was likely broken at the time the women were being carried to the side entrance of the van which was backed up to the rear of the carport, with Sherrill's car being pulled up to allow the van to pull alongside the front porch. The globe itself had clearance to allow it to fall clear of the bulb itself. That explains why the bulb itself still burned the next day and was not broken when someone brushed against it.

As to the residence being scrubbed, it was always my assumption that would explain why no fingerprints or other evidence was found pointing to logical perpetrators. It could have simply been poor forensics.

We can extrapolate what likely took place that night; what transpired, how entry was gained, which way the van left on the way out of town and where it went. That information was very likely presented to the federal grand jury in 1994. However, there was no physical evidence to bring indictments. The great probability is that this case was solved in 1994. But convictions were not possible in the prosecutor's judgment.

The means, the motive and the opportunity are now virtually certain. And the perpetrators and/or associates were almost surely established. But knowing all this does not produce justice where the case now stands. Short of a confession by one of the perps it is unlikely this case will ever be closed. This is not unlike the Zodiac case in that in my view the perpetrator was long ago known but that the physical evidence was never determined to bring an indictment. That case while solved (in my view) will never be closed. And so it is with this case. I do not believe this was an "inside" job.
 
MM- would you mind summing up in a nutshell, (for those of us who haven't read the entire 20 pages of information) who supposedly did this, how and why?
 
Hi all, I am very very hesitant to write this. Does anyone know of any information linking these women to the Kansas City area? I seen something in the summer of 1992 that has bothered me ever since but have never mentioned it to anyone other than my husband. It wasnt till much later that i found out these women where missing and i didnt remember alot of details by then so i never called it in. At most it could have been a possible sighting is all but it is probably nothing. Does anyone know of any information or sightings close to the Kansas City area for these women?
Thanks!
 
rccook555 said:
Hi all, I am very very hesitant to write this. Does anyone know of any information linking these women to the Kansas City area? I seen something in the summer of 1992 that has bothered me ever since but have never mentioned it to anyone other than my husband. It wasnt till much later that i found out these women where missing and i didnt remember alot of details by then so i never called it in. At most it could have been a possible sighting is all but it is probably nothing. Does anyone know of any information or sightings close to the Kansas City area for these women?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Do you think you might have seen them? What bothered you that you saw?
 
reb said:
MM- would you mind summing up in a nutshell, (for those of us who haven't read the entire 20 pages of information) who supposedly did this, how and why?
Click to expand...

I don't want to sound pompous or anything like that but a small group of us have looked again at the facts and determined what almost certainly took place. I would love to say that it has been confirmed by the police department but they simply will not discuss the case; even with the press/media. So the best we can do is to extrapolate from known and published facts with time lines, common sense and elimination of things that have no bearing on the case.

In order to make sense of this one would need to reread all of the available public information regarding events leading up to and after the abductions to understand this case. Unfortunately that is difficult because the primary newspaper of record didn't archive their own information until 1999, seven years after the abductions.

All I can really say is that I am satisfied with this scenario. There is the means, the motive and the opportunity. The subjects are believed to be known and the disposition of the remains can likewise be deduced.

Nevertheless, there are former police officers who point in a different direction. And that goes to the original suspects in the case. Unfortunately, the facts do not fit that scenario. So the case remains up in the air and unsolved although it is believed by us, in any event, that we know what happened.

Nothing would please me more that if the police or prosecutor would provide some direction. We can only work with what we have. We could be wrong, but I don't think so.

If anyone wants to pursue this case on their own or with a small group, my suggestion would be to sit down in the Springfield City Library and read every article appearing over the years and then look up what is available in other publications, most specifically the Kansas City Star which wrote extensively on this case. That's the best I can offer at this point in time.
 
<I don't want to sound pompous or anything like that but a small group of us have looked again at the facts and determined what almost certainly took place.>

so....... what exactly do you think happened?
 
Missouri Mule said:
I don't want to sound pompous or anything like that but a small group of us have looked again at the facts and determined what almost certainly took place. I would love to say that it has been confirmed by the police department but they simply will not discuss the case; even with the press/media. So the best we can do is to extrapolate from known and published facts with time lines, common sense and elimination of things that have no bearing on the case.

In order to make sense of this one would need to reread all of the available public information regarding events leading up to and after the abductions to understand this case. Unfortunately that is difficult because the primary newspaper of record didn't archive their own information until 1999, seven years after the abductions.

All I can really say is that I am satisfied with this scenario. There is the means, the motive and the opportunity. The subjects are believed to be known and the disposition of the remains can likewise be deduced.

Nevertheless, there are former police officers who point in a different direction. And that goes to the original suspects in the case. Unfortunately, the facts do not fit that scenario. So the case remains up in the air and unsolved although it is believed by us, in any event, that we know what happened.

Nothing would please me more that if the police or prosecutor would provide some direction. We can only work with what we have. We could be wrong, but I don't think so.

If anyone wants to pursue this case on their own or with a small group, my suggestion would be to sit down in the Springfield City Library and read every article appearing over the years and then look up what is available in other publications, most specifically the Kansas City Star which wrote extensively on this case. That's the best I can offer at this point in time.
Click to expand...

This is a tease for us readers, which really isn't fair. Unfortunately, most of us don't live or even visit Springfield or Kansas City (KC Star) to do what you've suggested.

If you don't wish to tell us directly what you feel happened, why not post links to the case to lead us in your direction?
 
Trino said:
This is a tease for us readers, which really isn't fair. Unfortunately, most of us don't live or even visit Springfield or Kansas City (KC Star) to do what you've suggested.

If you don't wish to tell us directly what you feel happened, why not post links to the case to lead us in your direction?
Click to expand...

The prosecutor in 1994 took this case to a federal grand jury. Although indictments were not forthcoming it does not follow that the pursuit of these individuals was not based on solid investigation. Look there. (I want to restate again that neither the prosecutor nor the police department will discuss this case. I won't either except for the barest outline.)


"Aug. 26-27, 1994: A federal grand jury reviewed evidence in the missing women's case. Police sources said they had three suspects at the time...

(snip)

When the three women disappeared, all three of the men were on the street.

Springfield News-Leader


Although the Zodiac killer has absolutely no bearing on this case, the lessons are the same. I believe that case was solved long ago but the prime suspect was never charged. I believe the same here.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 240 more.
Total: 4,116 (members: 241, guests: 3,875)

Online statistics

Members online
241
Guests online
3,875
Total visitors
4,116
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
591,556
Messages
17,954,951
Members
228,533
Latest member
Danielle79903
Back
Top