Conrad Murray trial -Day nine.

21merc7 said:

respectfully snipped

WHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTT!

Murray was trying to get MJ on propofol???!!!!! Holy Moly!

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I tell ya there is more to Doc Murray than meets the eye.

IMO

One thing this jury isn't going to buy, imo.

The DT has made MJ out to be this crazed propofol addict who had to have his 'milk' but yet Murray would have us and the jury believe that morning MJ was calm...singing..chanting.....meditating......and whatever else...:innocent: while only sleeping for 15 minutes from 1:00 am until 10:40 am when he said he finally gave him the propofol.:innocent:

Commonsense and logic will rule the day and Murray screwed up highly by ever thinking he could outsmart LE in his interview. It shows what a narcissistic personalty he has. He truly believed because he was the Doctor man they would buy it hook, line, and sinker.

He must have been shocked with they seized his cell phones since he conveniently omitted his 47 minutes of phone activity from the time line.

IMO

Bluesky#1 said:

Because plenty of urine was in the bottle next to the bed, this proves MJ was not dehydrated Thursday morning when he “allegedly” called CM.

In the interview played in Court on Friday, Dr. Murray said he gave Propofol to Michael every day for months and Nicole Alvarez said Dr. Murray left at 9 pm everyday to go to Michael’s; so CM was already at MJ’s residence and this phone call by MJ to CM at 1 am never took place.

To date there has been no proof presented in Court to prove Michael made this call to Dr. Murray and Dr. Murray answered it. Therefore I don’t believe this conversation took place which supports my theory CM and MJ planned Michael’s death in advance.

Elissa Fleak stated in her narrative report,

“I spoke with Detective S. Smith from the LAPD and he reported that on the early morning of 6/25/ 2009 (Thursday), the decedent placed a call to his primary physician, cardiologist Dr. Conrad Murray. The decedent complained of being dehydrated and not able to sleep. Dr. Murray went to the decedent’s residence and administered medical care.”

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf

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I respectfully will never believe that MJ wanted to die. Nope.....I see no evidence of that. Michael was a very spiritual person. If he did not commit suicide in his molestation ordeal at the most traumatic time of his life then he is a very strong willed person.

He simply loved his children too much and to do it when they were in the house? Sorry that is just too far fetched for me.

Murray killed him alright but he didn't intentionally kill him although he might as well have since his acts were so grossly negligent.

IMO

Thanks to all that are posting here! I just can not watch more than 2 or 3 minutes of this trial, especiall since the recording of MJ s voice has aired. CM just looks and acted while treating MJ like a ghoul. The old term from the 70s comes to mind, star ph...er. I cant look at CMs face without shuddering, and his cheerleader gf s , wow. CM has got to be one of the worst psychopaths of all time, imo. I think Santaria every time I hear his voice.! gah!!

legalmania said:

As far as I can remember the bodyguard said there were two IVs hanging. One was just saline but the second was saline cut with a bottle inside. He was asked by Conrad to remove it and put it in another bag. Unfortunately the lady who was sent from the corners office was not experienced enough and instead of photographing the bag with everything in it first and preserving evidence the way it was, just took it out of the bag and by memory put it on top of a table the way it was in the bag and photographing it, but she testified that it was like that in the bag. Which IMO was not good for the prosecution. It's those little mistakes that cause reasonable doubt.

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Yes, that is what I heard, too, BUT when the toxicologist testified he reported that he tested ONLY one bag, What about the one with the alleged bottle in it?saline beg...WHAT Why wasn't the lag w/the slit and alleged bottle in it tested...This just does not make any sense to me? Wasn't the bag w/slit tested. Something is not right to me..tia

Lqqkout said:

Yes, that is what I heard, too, BUT when the toxicologist testified he reported that he tested ONLY one bag, What about the one with the alleged bottle in it?saline beg...WHAT Why wasn't the lag w/the slit and alleged bottle in it tested...This just does not make any sense to me? Wasn't the bag w/slit tested. Something is not right to me..tia

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I dont know about that slitted bag Lqqkout but they did test the bottle that was inside of it for fingerprints and it had one print belonging to Murray.

IMO

oceanblueeyes said:

I dont know about that slitted bag Lqqkout but they did test the bottle that was inside of it for fingerprints and it had one print belonging to Murray.

IMO

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Ok, thank you. There just making such a big deal regarding the fact that there were no drugs found in the saline bag and tubing until the y tube. So what? It was a saline only. I was the second bag holding the bottle that is the important one to test for drugs because to me there is reasonable doubt as to whether the bottle was in the bag. Why didn't they test the second bag? Beyond me...We will never know if the bottle was inside the bag because 1, It was not photographed ans second the bag and tube was not tested. Something smells here, imo

Lqqkout said:

Ok, thank you. There just making such a big deal regarding the fact that there were no drugs found in the saline bag and tubing until the y tube. So what? It was a saline only. I was the second bag holding the bottle that is the important one to test for drugs because to me there is reasonable doubt as to whether the bottle was in the bag. Why didn't they test the second bag? Beyond me...We will never know if the bottle was inside the bag because 1, It was not photographed ans second the bag and tube was not tested. Something smells here, imo

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I guess it is who you feel is telling the truth. I see no reason whatsoever why AA would lie about something he saw and those two items were exactly as he described when Murray told LE himself where they were on the third day after MJ died. If they had not found them then maybe some doubt.....but they were found and AA nor the public had a copy of what was retrieved in the SWs. Those were held sealed for months.

While Ms. Fleak may have made errors because after all this was just a death investigation and not a homicide investigation I do not think she is lying about one thing. And there is no way she or AA could get Murray's fingerprint on the bottle found in the slit bag.

I think what happened is she felt the propofol bottle would not show up and it would cause a glare when photographing it and it does show the saline bags that does have a glare on them. So she... meaning well... took the bottle out of the slit bag..placed it on the top of the bag she found it in and took a photo of it.

If you noticed she took individual photos of other things. Since the propofol and bag came together she photographed them that way...together.

That is not going to make or break the case. Murray has many more problems that just that. The worst thing he could have done ever was agreeing to talk to LE. Now they have him locked into his lies that do not add up to the evidence.

:clap: My ear is tired, and it's all your doing, Talina! :clap:

I have just spent the last several hours getting caught up on watching the early testimony & opening remarks that you so kindly and, I'm sure, painstakingly put up for us on the first days of this trial. I had not been able to watch the first couple of days, and I just now found where you had copied much, much testimony for folks like me to review.

A big:gthanks: for all of that!! It was very thoughtful, useful and helpful for you to do that for us. :seeya:

Again, many thanks.

:takeabow::cheer:

oceanblueeyes said:

I respectfully will never believe that MJ wanted to die. Nope.....I see no evidence of that. Michael was a very spiritual person. If he did not commit suicide in his molestation ordeal at the most traumatic time of his life then he is a very strong willed person.

He simply loved his children too much and to do it when they were in the house? Sorry that is just too far fetched for me.

Murray killed him alright but he didn't intentionally kill him although he might as well have since his acts were so grossly negligent.

IMO

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I think MJ really thought he was up for this tour and really wanted to pull it off. He wanted this hospital for kids but he wanted to pull off something that would insure everyone that he was the king, had done better than the Fab Four, Elvis, everybody. He had a desire to be the best, I think he thought if he was the best, he would be loved. Had he been in on planning his own death, the place would have been cleaned - both of drugs and clutter. There would be nothing left to soil his rep for both he, his kid's, and his mother's sakes.

lorann said:

I think MJ really thought he was up for this tour and really wanted to pull it off. He wanted this hospital for kids but he wanted to pull off something that would insure everyone that he was the king, had done better than the Fab Four, Elvis, everybody. He had a desire to be the best, I think he thought if he was the best, he would be loved. Had he been in on planning his own death, the place would have been cleaned - both of drugs and clutter. There would be nothing left to soil his rep for both he, his kid's, and his mother's sakes.

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I absolutely agree with you.

He was known as the best entertainer in the world. His millions of fans wanting more than anything to see him perform again. He has the largest fan base worldwide and that following has gone on for decades and getting stronger even after his passing.

In the tape that Murray recorded.......he is not telling Murray 'God has told me I just can't do this." He is saying God has told him he must do this for the children. MJ longed to reach out to the needy and sick children of the world. He had all this love bottled up inside for all children and this is how he could release some of it.

He had to get such a boost of self esteem when he saw how all of the tickets sold out in record time.

His schedule wouldn't have been that grueling anyway. Just two shows a week.

Michael did not want to die. He wanted to live and get his life back. That is what MJ wanted.:woohoo::woohoo:

You are certainly right. The Jacksons took nothing from that scene. They called LE to pick up everything they found even if it may have put MJ in a bad light. All they have ever wanted was to know the truth about why they lost MJ so suddenly.

IMO

In all the photos I never saw a stethoscope on Murray's neck or laying in the room.

What cardiologist doesn't have a stethoscope?:waitasec:

And why would he continue to give him CPR if MJ had a rapid heartbeat once he did the compressions?

If his hand was behind MJs back and the other one on top of his chest giving compressions continuously then how did he feel to find the femoral pulse in the leg?:waitasec:

IMO

Listening to the Conrad Murray interview with LE tapes,
I don't hear him at all trying to save Michael Jackson's life.

I see him trying to save his own arse!

(AKA: CYA! )

oceanblueeyes said:

In all the photos I never saw a stethoscope on Murray's neck or laying in the room.

What cardiologist doesn't have a stethoscope?:waitasec:

And why would he continue to give him CPR if MJ had a rapid heartbeat once he did the compressions?

If his hand was behind MJs back and the other one on top of his chest giving compressions continuously then how did he feel to find the femoral pulse in the leg?:waitasec:

IMO

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BBM

I never saw a bloodpressure cuff readily available, either!

I wonder if there will be an expert witness, preferably a cardiologist, but anyone in the medical field would work....
to point out Dr Murray's flaws in treating MJ, including those from his statements in the taped interview.

IF Michael Jackson judged and blamed his parents for robbing him of his childhood and he was angry with his parents, his anger would limit his ability to be a good father to his own children and he would not be able to be there for them throughout their childhood.

In the recorded conversation in May 2009, Michael said he wants to build a children’s hospital to help children abandoned by their mother's so it is possible he is talking about his own life experience if he was holding onto the belief that his mother abandoned him because she didn’t stop the abuse inflicted upon him by his father. Michael does not talk about raising his own children but rather he focuses upon his own personal pain and suffering (I am hurt). He said “he didn’t have a childhood” which is a lie. We all have had a childhood and it is apparent that he is in denial and living in the past, unable to forgive and heal from it. This unresolved conflict is the dis-ease that led to Michael’s death. By the time we reach mid-life we have to deal with our past or it will kill us. If Michael's was angry with his parents for their treatment of him during his childhood, he may have taken revenge by planning his death.

Most medical doctors treat patients who are trapped by their past by prescribing anti-depressants and when they don’t work, they give them more. This is how Dr. Conrad Murray was treating Michael’s depression. Dr. Murray said Michael “meditated” Thursday morning to relieve his emotional pain and it didn’t work but I have found through personal experience that meditating does work if you have the right spiritual teacher.

Dr. Murray was abandoned by his own father after he was born and unless Dr. Murray has gained the wisdom necessary and knows how to heal the pain, how to stop the addictive behavior, how to stop running from yourself, from your past, how to stop avoiding life by chasing after some imaginary future, he cannot help Michael. Based on what we know about Dr. Murray's personal life, he was in no position to help Michael and he too was running from his past.

Michael was planning a comeback tour and it is important to understand that if we choose to continue to chase after some future goal to avoid that which we currently feel, we are never at all allowing the present state to come into that of balance, to move through the process of healing. We are simply avoiding that which we are feeling, hoping and wanting it to go away, thinking that it will be replaced by some other experience when we reach this other goal, and so we abuse things, we abuse things because of our addiction, because of the fear of that which we are feeling and the desire to create more, so we abuse our food, we abuse our friends, we abuse our emotions, we abuse our minds, we abuse this planet because we are running from the pain we feel within, because we are hoping to find something to cover over that which we do not enjoy and so as we choose to strive to gain more we are simply pushing ourselves further out of balance avoiding one extreme and running to the next but it is only through the process of understanding, healing and integrating the broken extreme that we bring our self back to the centre of wholeness, for if we choose to run from one end to the other, we still are out of balance and both suffering still exists; the suffering of wanting to avoid and the suffering of not getting that which we believe will bring us happiness. Our addictions keep us chasing and keep us suffering; they keep us hoping for some future experience to give us happiness and leaving us in a present state of suffering.

JMO

Bluesky#1 said:

IF Michael Jackson judged and blamed his parents for robbing him of his childhood and he was angry with his parents, his anger would limit his ability to be a good father to his own children and he would not be able to be there for them throughout their childhood.

JMO

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(Snipped & Bolded By Me)

I appreciate your opinion, but a lot of people, who claim to have had a rotten childhood because their
parents did not have good parenting skills or were abusive, become the opposite & are very good parents.

My opinion stems from my own experience. Although they weren't deliberately abusive,
I don't think my parents were very good parents at all.

They believed "Children should be seen and not heard". Actually, it seems we were not seen nor heard &
not appreciated. We were not encouraged to be creative or to play or to form opinions or have feelings....

... IOW, it seems to me, that my 3 sibs and I were never allowed to just be children.

As I grew up and had my own children, I wanted to be everything that my parents were not.
And, not be some things that they were!

I loved encouraging my 3 sons, at all stages of their lives, from their toddler years, to be artistic,
creative and to voice whatever opinions & feelings they had, without being told they were wrong.

I tend to see Michael being that same sort of parent. From the videos I've seen (mostly at U-Tube)
of him with his children, he is a very good parent. Even when he had them wearing their masks in public,
it looks like they were all playing games.

I am proud to say that my 3 sons were never in trouble with the law or with drugs, they all 3 made excellent grades,
all 3 graduated from college and all 3 are very successful now as adults.

I am finally glad that Beth Karas got it straight! Leave it to Beth because she doesn't get twisted up in the drama and spin!

She said there is no evidence that shows Michael Jackson was a drug addict.

She said he WAS A INSOMNIAC!


Then she said very slyly. Does that mean those who take medications to help them sleep are drug addicts? Like Ambian or however that is spelled. :floorlaugh:

peace9274 said:

(Snipped & Bolded By Me)

I appreciate your opinion, but a lot of people, who claim to have had a rotten childhood because their
parents did not have good parenting skills or were abusive, become the opposite & are very good parents.

My opinion stems from my own experience. Although they weren't deliberately abusive,
I don't think my parents were very good parents at all.

They believed "Children should be seen and not heard". Actually, it seems we were not seen nor heard &
not appreciated. We were not encouraged to be creative or to play or to form opinions or have feelings....

... IOW, it seems to me, that my 3 sibs and I were never allowed to just be children.

As I grew up and had my own children, I wanted to be everything that my parents were not.
And, not be some things that they were!

I loved encouraging my 3 sons, at all stages of their lives, from their toddler years, to be artistic,
creative and to voice whatever opinions & feelings they had, without being told they were wrong.

I tend to see Michael being that same sort of parent. From the videos I've seen (mostly at U-Tube)
of him with his children, he is a very good parent. Even when he had them wearing their masks in public,
it looks like they were all playing games.

I am proud to say that my 3 sons were never in trouble with the law or with drugs, they all 3 made excellent grades,
all 3 graduated from college and all 3 are very successful now as adults.

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I totally agree with you based on my own personal childhood abuses.

I made sure when I became an adult and a mother I would do everything the total opposite of my parents. The only thing I learned from them is showing me what NOT to do and we have 5 beautiful children who are now grown and have children of their own. And I am proud of the way they were raised. With love,respect, sharing, acceptance, support, nurturing and guidance. Not one of them has ever been in any kind of trouble. They are kind, respectul, giving and compassionate and so are their kids.

I think MJ was a wonderful father that knew kids needed to be kids and not workhorses and to enjoy it fully because with adulthood comes heavy responsibilities. He taught them to always be considerate of others and remember those who are less fortunate than them and already they are doing humanitarian work. But most of all he spent quality time with his children. That is paramount in raising well rounded children. If we had more fathers like MJ the world would be a better place.

He loved them so much that he lived in fear someone crazy kook would try to kidnap them just because he was their dad. He hated that his children couldn't even go anywhere without their photos being taken and sold to a tabloid. It had to irk him so much that the media made money off of him and his own children.

oceanblueeyes said:

In all the photos I never saw a stethoscope on Murray's neck or laying in the room.

What cardiologist doesn't have a stethoscope?:waitasec:

And why would he continue to give him CPR if MJ had a rapid heartbeat once he did the compressions?

If his hand was behind MJs back and the other one on top of his chest giving compressions continuously then how did he feel to find the femoral pulse in the leg?:waitasec:

IMO

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Ooooohhh, ocean - If only we could get that (IMO) slimeball on the stand and under oath (hah!), those would be some very good questions!!!

Michael told Dr. Murray he wanted to build a children’s hospital with a movie theatre and a game room because it would help cure depression; but the treatment MJ received from medical doctors and his long-standing career in the entertainment field was only able to offer him temporary relief from depression; not cure it, which was necessary in order to save his life.

Therefore, the children’s hospital MJ said he wanted to build with entertainment facilities in order to cure depression would only provide the patients with temporary relief as well and even though MJ stated emphatically, “God wants me to do this”, I can’t see what difference or contribution this medical facility really had to offer.

JMO