IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #24

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Angelonline said:
This is an interesting theory and got me to thinking, since we have explored every other possible scenario, due to the lack of facts....

What if Lauren was in no shape to say "no".. And JR was there all along or came by and all three guys "had there way with her" so to speak. I have heard of this happening with an intoxicated girl at frat party and even with a girl in a group of jocks at a party, when I was in high school.. Often the girls are too embarassed or can't remember enough to report this type of thing, so the guys who are also usually drunk/high feel empowered or safe in "risking it". But what if in this case LS died either from something she had taken, alcohol posioning, her heart condition, or even because one of them got to rough with her... Then they came up with their story together: one of them, perhaps the best at lying agreed to be the last to see her and the one who is the worst at lying decided to just go with memory loss... and they have all stuck to the story because all of them would be implicated if she were found....

Now all of this is a whole lot of supposition, what ifs... etc. Just another thought to add to the many others we have talked about.
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My mind has gone there before. It's difficult to not speculate when there aren't more facts forthcoming. It's such a hateful thing to think, but as you said, it has happened. I don't blame LS at all for hanging out with guys she considered friends. A lot of young women do exactly that. But maybe they took advantage of that. It's possible. There are certain types of guys who feel entitled, it seems ...

I've lately thought that LS never made it to CR/MB's at all ... that she disappeared in the gravel lot. That also means that all three (two if CR truly doesn't remember) are lying. Would an OD alone compel them to do that? It's been debated here, along with everything else. IDK. It might if they supplied drugs, etc., but I do wonder about MB. If he wasn't involved in that way, is he just protecting a friend?

Regardless, there appears to be something that's binding them to a code of silence ...
 
bessie said:
I suggested this once, and I think I got flamed. :loser: Sure a guy would be in a panic if, after engaging in sexual activity with a young woman, she suddenly OD's, possibly even moreso if he had used coke. His judgment would be affected by the drugs and the situation, and he might well resort to drastic action, just like others have done in the past. The young man's personality and the stakes at hand would be factors in determining the likelihood of this notion being true, but it's a possibility just the same, and could even involve more than one guy. If true, Lauren's body bears the DNA of the only one(s) who knows where it rests. Hence, the complete silence because to offer even an anonymous tip could prove fatal.
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Something I'd be concerned about if I were the guy in this scenario - sex followed closely in time by death from OD - is that people would question the girl's ability to consent to sex. In other words people might think that since she had had enough to kill her, that she had been so messed up that she couldn't say no.
 
Tr. said:
Hmm.. I wonder if rather than a connection (such as religion) between the vic and perp/s a disconnect isn't more likely..as in ethnicity?
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Can you be more specific? I don't know what you're getting at. If not referring to religion (in this case Jewish), "ethnicity" could mean skin color (which means nothing), or nationality -- they're all American, except possibly HT (Israeli name) and AB (Indian name). So... huh?
 
Tr. said:
Hmm.. I wonder if rather than a connection (such as religion) between the vic and perp/s a disconnect isn't more likely..as in ethnicity?
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Not that it is impossible, but in the context of the student body at a US university seems unlikely that ethnicity played any role in LS's disappearance. JR, JW, MB, CR, DR and LS all have Germanic surnames.

Addition: ZO has an English surname, but could be an Anglicization of a Germanic surname.

OTOH Do you mean that some other group comprised of a different ethnicity was in conflict with them?



Just a guess: both HT and LS looked up to JR as an "older brother"-figure. The tone of HT's comments about how she & LS spent a lot of time at his place their freshman year, and also JR's claim that he jokingly told LS she could not leave if she stumbled, all sounds very brotherly. LS was afraid that night, afraid to return to Smallwood, so she goes back to JR's place; so she must have trusted him. Therefore, JMO seems unlikely that JR, CR, or MB would have raped LS or acted to cover up a rape.
 
bloom54 said:
I mentioned this very thing earlier.... especially when there was such a warm reunion between BW and CS/RS..... we've not heard of any such reunions between HT and them! That gives me pause....
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HT has stated that she believes that LS was the victim of a stranger abduction, which conflicts with what other people believe; but certainly she may be correct. LS could have been abducted on College Avenue after about 4:30 am.
 
Walker said:
HT has stated that she believes that LS was the victim of a stranger abduction, which conflicts with what other people believe; but certainly she may be correct. LS could have been abducted on College Avenue after about 4:30 am.
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I used to think that was a possibility until JR stated that he was NOT the last one to see Lauren that evening and for some reason I do believe him on that one. I just haven't been able to figure out who that other person could be.
 
Walker said:
Just a guess: both HT and LS looked up to JR as an "older brother"-figure.
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For me, that would not rule out anything. Consider the times we've heard of date rape by someone the victim knew and trusted. Sadly, my personal experience backs this up. People can 'change' when impaired. Add in possible OD or sudden death and the potential for manic reaction is increased.

Just my filtering through all of this...
 
Walker said:
HT has stated that she believes that LS was the victim of a stranger abduction, which conflicts with what other people believe; but certainly she may be correct. LS could have been abducted on College Avenue after about 4:30 am.
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i believe lauren was kidnapped by a stranger. another crime of opportunity.
 
Tr. said:
I don't believe LS had plans for sex at all that night and that is why she was with CR.
She planned on staying in at SW (per HT), was not with her boyfriend, decided last minute to party some and get back home.
Judging by her appearance in the security still, the quick outfit, pale skin tone, need for a jacket on warm night..makes me think she may have started her period. Plus it was near the beginning of the month but who knows?
That may sound ridiculous to some but I'll bet she had absolutely no plans for sex with anyone that night.
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With all due respect, this is assuming an awful lot.

First of all, it's a camera meant for security and the resolution isn't great. We really can't know anything at all about her skin tone. She was very fair, but we don't know how much more or less-so than usual.

Second, as a woman who has had per period for many years, I have never noticed or heard of paleness as being a symptom.

Third, many women, including myself, get chilly at night. I live in North Carolina which is very hot during the summer, and I still carry a jacket in the evening. Especially if I'm going to be either outside, or somewhere very air-conditioned (like a restaurant or a bar). My propensity to be chilled has nothing (at least as far as I have been able to discern over hundreds of days of having my period or being premenstral) to do with my period. If anything, I've heard people say that sometimes they get hot flashes during certain times in their cycle.

Finally, even if we accepted the idea that she had her period, sometimes people don't intend at the beginning of the evening, but end up, for whatever reason, having sex. Especially if they have been doing coke.
 
Tr. said:
..makes me think she may have started her period. Plus it was near the beginning of the month but who knows?
That may sound ridiculous to some but I'll bet she had absolutely no plans for sex with anyone that night.
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I'm sorry, but WHAT? First, there is no way to tell by how a woman is dressed that she has her period...I have never thought to dress differently when I'm on it, besides maybe not wearing white pants, and I still sometimes do that. LS doesn't look dressed down at all to me, she looks exactly how most girls would, when they're just hanging out at a friends house. Also, what does it being near the beginning of the month have to do with anything?
 
SUNchips said:
I'm sorry, but WHAT? <snip> Also, what does it being near the beginning of the month have to do with anything?
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Wouldn't it be cool if it did, though - it would make planning vacations soooooo much easier :)
 
Tr. said:
I don't believe LS had plans for sex at all that night and that is why she was with CR.
She planned on staying in at SW (per HT), was not with her boyfriend, decided last minute to party some and get back home.
Judging by her appearance in the security still, the quick outfit, pale skin tone, need for a jacket on warm night..makes me think she may have started her period. Plus it was near the beginning of the month but who knows?
That may sound ridiculous to some but I'll bet she had absolutely no plans for sex with anyone that night.
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Maybe she didn't have plans for sex, but I'm lost on the rest. :waitasec:

Did you mention that it was near the beginning of the month because you are saying it was not really summer yet, it might've been cooler than later in June?
 
That comment confused me too-I interpreted it like he thought every single girl starts their period at the beginning of the month. But, then I thought I have to be misunderstanding-the world would literally end and the end times be nigh if every single woman started their period at the same time :p

I also still think the outfit is being misinterpreted. I hear people say it was a quick outfit, a slobby outfit, a cheap or thrown together outfit, etc. Undergrads right now wear that type of outfit as a trendy nice outfit that you would go out in for a night of fun. I went out with my brother to a bar a few weekends and half the girls were dressed the same or similar. A designer boyfriend shirt like she had one can cost anywhere from 40-200 dollars now. Leggings as pants is still in. She is wearing what looks to me to be a trendy, nice outfit topped off with designer, expensive jewelry.

That being said, I do not think she went out aiming to have sex that night. Just...for different reasons than her outfit.
 
I am still trying to figure out why JR said he has been in touch privately with the Spierers and they say he hasn't...I have trouble getting past that kind of stuff.
 
mamamia54 said:
I used to think that was a possibility until JR stated that he was NOT the last one to see Lauren that evening and for some reason I do believe him on that one. I just haven't been able to figure out who that other person could be.
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Did I miss this JR quote somewhere?
 
I thought CR/ his lawyer said he wasn't the last person who saw her that night and sometimes that gets mis-remembered as JR saying it. Or did JR have a separate statement saying he also wasn't the last to see Lauren?


Sexual attack of some sort has been a specter looming over this case. I go back and forth on it, but I think part of the reason I have been unwilling to discuss it a lot is because that would just make the entire situation so, so much more horrible to me. Like, Lauren needed people to step in and make sure she was ok and protected that night and it is horrible to me that multiple people shrugged off that chance to do the right thing. Add in not only not protecting her or helping her, but also taking advantage when she was at her most vulnerable and possibly dying? Praying there is an extra special circle of hell if that is what happened.
 
cluciano63 said:
I am still trying to figure out why JR said he has been in touch privately with the Spierers and they say he hasn't...I have trouble getting past that kind of stuff.
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I'm thinking that JR is the kind of person who says what he thinks of at the moment ... maybe what he meant was that he talks to his lawyer who talks to LE who talks to the Spierers. But to get the reporter off his back he said what he did. JMO.
 
bx2 said:
Did I miss this JR quote somewhere?
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No, I'm wrong, it was CR that said it -

“I was not the last person with her. That’s all I can say. Sorry. I hope they find her as soon as possible. I am praying for her and her family,” Rossman told reporters outside Bloomington police headquarters where he provided a DNA sample.
 
bloom54 said:
I mentioned this very thing earlier.... especially when there was such a warm reunion between BW and CS/RS..... we've not heard of any such reunions between HT and them! That gives me pause....
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I would guess that LS' parents are wild about how much HT has been talking to the press, but I think that LS' relationship with BW was much deeper. They were camp friends, grew up together, visited each others' homes in the years before college; BW's parents have expressed fondness for LS, and so I would guess that LS' parents are very fond of BW, too.
 
Darcyline said:
I thought CR/ his lawyer said he wasn't the last person who saw her that night and sometimes that gets mis-remembered as JR saying it. Or did JR have a separate statement saying he also wasn't the last to see Lauren?


Sexual attack of some sort has been a specter looming over this case. I go back and forth on it, but I think part of the reason I have been unwilling to discuss it a lot is because that would just make the entire situation so, so much more horrible to me. Like, Lauren needed people to step in and make sure she was ok and protected that night and it is horrible to me that multiple people shrugged off that chance to do the right thing. Add in not only not protecting her or helping her, but also taking advantage when she was at her most vulnerable and possibly dying? Praying there is an extra special circle of hell if that is what happened.
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I agree, but then again, almost any scenario I can think of is horrible. Stranger abduction seems even more horrible and terrifying to me :(
 
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