NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

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LauraMars said:
Hi HeartRuledHead

I think a lot of the reason many may come across as so vicious and angry towards TM, is the length of the affair. It's not like it was a short fling (not suggesting at all that that would be acceptable either), but 3 -4 years is a long time and then for the affair to end, only to resume again so soon after. Also, she must have known Allison, and worked with her for at least some of those years. Did she not have any respect for Allison? Unfortunately it appears she put her own selfish wants and needs above all else.

Maybe TM really did love Gerard, and maybe she really thought he would leave Allison for her, but he didn't. Why didn't Toni walk away much much earlier?

I am sure it was probably Gerard who pursued TM, but she did always have a choice to say no. I also can't understand why you'd even want to be with someone who was so deceitful that he would string his wife along for 3 years plus.

I'm sure Toni wasn't his first infidelity, and obviously not his last. Quite possibly there are plenty more than the other 2 supposed mistresses.

While I don't believe she is responsible for Allison's death, she obviously played a big part in Allison's misery prior to her death.

I think it's highly likely that Gerard would have done the evil deed, regardless of whether he was still seeing TM, even if he'd never met her. I also doubt whether Gerard ever had any real intentions of 'officially' being with Toni. If he had have felt so strongly for her, wouldn't he have left Allison sooner? I reckon TM was probably just another big use for him, she was serving some purpose, much of that probably financial.

I agree with you in that I don't think people should poke holes in Toni's appearance (or his other family members for that matter). It's not even vaguely relevant.

All MOO
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I agree with everything you have said. You are rational. I never meant to come across defending the affair at all, but they do happen every day (no excuse) though I am sure anyone who ever participated in an affair would anticipate that it could end in murder. Other than perhaps the murder of the participants once the wife/husband found out.

If there were no suggestions that TM was aware or responsible. Nor comments in relation to her look. I would not be defensive of her actions.

In no way to I defend the affair itself. I just believe she let her heart rule her head and she made this mistake that she has to live with.

It does not make her a mastermind, accomplice or murderer though.


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Woof said:
Many years ago, this nice man flirted with me at an event. I was flattered and attracted. Then someone told me he was married. I asked him if he was and he said yes. I left immediately and never saw him again. People have a choice. Married men are off the market. IMO there is no questioning that. TM knew GBC was married. She made the wrong choice.
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You are right she did. Many people do.

Who is arguing this point may I ask?


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I wonder how soon after Allison was reported missing did TM actually come forward and VOLUNTEER information to the police? Just a thought......
 
Woof said:
Many years ago, this nice man flirted with me at an event. I was flattered and attracted. Then someone told me he was married. I asked him if he was and he said yes. I left immediately and never saw him again. People have a choice. Married men are off the market. IMO there is no questioning that. TM knew GBC was married. She made the wrong choice.
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Absolutely agree Woof...probably the only positive to come out of the mess TM helped to create & which she's found herself in is, she'll be a witness for the prosecution :)....WOOOO HOOOO & YAYYYY....& that's something for everyone to be damn happy about in my opinion.
 
HeartRuledHead said:
I agree with everything you have said. You are rational. I never meant to come across defending the affair at all, but they do happen every day (no excuse) though I am sure anyone who ever participated in an affair would anticipate that it could end in murder. Other than perhaps the murder of the participants once the wife/husband found out.

If there were no suggestions that TM was aware or responsible. Nor comments in relation to her look. I would not be defensive of her actions.

In no way to I defend the affair itself. I just believe she let her heart rule her head and she made this mistake that she has to live with.

It does not make her a mastermind, accomplice or murderer though.


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Actually I'm thinking of deleting my previous comment because at the moment no-one knows 100% if there'll be any further arrests or not. I don't know for a fact that TM wasn't involved in any way with any part of the murder....do you???
 
Strangeworld said:
I wonder how soon after Allison was reported missing did TM actually come forward and VOLUNTEER information to the police? Just a thought......
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In honesty I have wondered the same... I would like to believe if she did expect GBC she would have come forward right away. Though perhaps it took her a while to believe that he could possibly be responsible for such a thing.


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AusChuck said:
Regarding the "Find My Friends" app that it appears GBC was referencing in his message:

It is something that has to be activated at both ends, ie the finder and the findee both have to authorise that particular app to work. The fact that GBC was referencing the app, and that ABC knew about at least one affair, perhaps part of the 'resolution' of the known affair was for ABC to be able to know GBC's location via the app - perhaps offered as a kind of 'trust offering'. So it seems likely that they both knew of and used the app.

Knowing that GBC's affair(s) continued, it may also be likely that he thought he was familiar with 'tricking' the app or using techniques to conceal his true location (leaving the phone in an innocent location while having a rendezvous etc). He may have believed he could use what he thought he knew about the app to generate a false location trail for ABC ending in "Find My Friends" being switched off (and a false trail for himself). Indeed, if this happened, he may have needed an accomplice just to move ABC's phone on a false trail (and then turn it off) while he was busy with other activities.
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Good post. Very possible.
 
Strangeworld said:
I wonder how soon after Allison was reported missing did TM actually come forward and VOLUNTEER information to the police? Just a thought......
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From my understanding when reading MSM, a former female colleague was interviews by QPS very early in the investigation and the general consensus is that it was TM. If this is so, had the questioning taken place before or after investigating GBC's hard drive and phone ? If it was before, can we assume TM volunteered the information ?


IMO
JMO
MOO
 
HeartRuledHead said:
You are right she did. Many people do.

Who is arguing this point may I ask?


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A lot of us who were taken in by this case were actually on the receiving end of deceitful husbands and their complicit women, so it's no wonder a lot of us are unsympathetic towards TM.

It's not TM's fault that A was killed, and she shouldn't be derided. But I myself still give her no sympathy.
 
HeartRuledHead said:
You are right she did. Many people do.

Who is arguing this point may I ask?


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Your defence of TM. IMO there is no defending a woman who knows a man is married yet still has an affair with him. She is not the victim you paint her. She knew he was married.
 
HeartRuledHead said:
I agree with everything you have said. You are rational. I never meant to come across defending the affair at all, but they do happen every day (no excuse) though I am sure anyone who ever participated in an affair would anticipate that it could end in murder. Other than perhaps the murder of the participants once the wife/husband found out.

If there were no suggestions that TM was aware or responsible. Nor comments in relation to her look. I would not be defensive of her actions.

In no way to I defend the affair itself. I just believe she let her heart rule her head and she made this mistake that she has to live with.

It does not make her a mastermind, accomplice or murderer though.


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IMO, TM is not a victim, but she is a player in the events leading up to a callous murder.

I am glad you share empathy towards ABC and the fact that her daughters are now living in a world without their loving mother.

Can you shed some more light on TM's side of the story?
 
BrissyLass said:
Welcome to the forum


yes she is somewhat of a victim in this mess as have many people have become unfortunatley, no one close to this is ever going to have their "same" life again, the repurcusions of something like this NEVER go away and they reach far and wide

My issue is that yes, she is the "other woman" a single woman, not married, she has no obligtion to anyone ... GBC on the other hand was obvioulsy a rat with not a whole lot of morals and may have been the pursuer, I have no clue who was.....but it is irrelevant really... if he was the one doing the chasing..... IMO, she could have said No. Sadly, that is a mistake that she is going to pay for for a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry long time. But I'm sure that she knows all this now

this is the problem with affairs/greed/arrogance......it rarely ends well, a lot of time not this badly for sure.....but there is not too often that a happy outcome is the result IMO


Cleary you have an association with TM, I can read that in your words, If she is a friend then I'm sorry for how you must be feeling at this time, see, nasty stuff affects LOTS of people *sigh*
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Beautiful post, BrissyLass...both sensitive and truthful.
 
Are you women serious? My god when did men become possessions as soon as they are married? Two people take vows when they choose to marry.. No one else does.. If a man chooses to break these vows and not forsake all others then it is his choice and it WONT be prevented by insecure women overprotecting there husbands by condemning and vilifying other women.. GBC broke the vows, TM didnt break any vows.. Not condoning or critising it just make sure you appropriate blame correctly...
 
This crime is a perfect example of why I think marriage counselling is evil.

If your marriage is that far gone that you have to sit around and talk to a perfect stranger about it, it's way past time to get out.

I know someones going to say "marriage counselling saved my marriage" but DID IT REALLY? Or has it just extended the unhappiness and feelings of frustration and failure, which is something you only tend to realise in hindsight?

They need to change it to "end of marriage counselling" IMO.
 
From one of the very early reports & I think the report which GBC complained about...

April 23, 2012

POLICE stepped up the search for Brookfield mother Allison Baden-Clay after confirming that her disappearance was being treated as a crime investigation.

They confirmed that Gerard Baden-Clay, the husband of the missing woman and the father of her three girls, was a person of interest in the investigation along with a number of people close to the couple.

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Baden-Clay.htm
 
Opinionsgalore said:
From my understanding when reading MSM, a former female colleague was interviews by QPS very early in the investigation and the general consensus is that it was TM. If this is so, had the questioning taken place before or after investigating GBC's hard drive and phone ? If it was before, can we assume TM volunteered the information ?


IMO
JMO
MOO
Click to expand...

Yes, there was a lot of discussion around that time, wasn't there! I was thinking more along the lines of VOLUNTARILY going to police to provide details of her involvement with the B-C's, and how long it took her after Allison was reported missing to speak with police. I just wonder if she at any time approached the police with her information, or if she waited for police to come and find her.

I just think regardless of whether she thought GBC was involved in Allison's disappearance, she should have gone to the police and provided information (after all, a person's life was in question). If she was worried about consequences of meeting with the police, she could have sought legal advice. But really, in the scenario that was unfolding on the day Allison was reported missing, surely TM's self-preservation should have been overridden by the very dire nature of Allison's disappearance.
 
HeartRuledHead said:
I strongly disagree. Having a love affair with a man who married or not does not hold you responsible for his thoughts or actions.

Again, so easy to judge.
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I know my views aren't the most popular here about this, but I agree with what you have said about TM. It's easy for others on the oustide (be it family, friends or strangers), to judge other people's actions and come to conclusions based on one's own morals and ethics. I'm sure I do it too, in fact, I know there are times I do. lol..

If that was me as the cheated wife as in this case Allison was, I personally wouldn't bother trying to save the relationship (children or not) because I see no point in persuing a person who obviously no longer cares or loves me. I couldn't be arsed with all the intrigue nor spend my life and energy with a bloke who no longer sees me as his sole companion. What good can come out of trying to 'force' someone to love and care for you exclusively I think to myself.

I see it that, if I do chose to try to work on such relationship where he had another woman in his life, then I also take the risk that things may not work out as I expect (want) them to.

You can lose trust in seconds, but to get it back it has to be earnt and that can take a lifetime if ever, depending on what it is about. By the same token, I wouldn't trust a man I was having an affair with if he was married because well... if he can cheat on his wife or partner, then he could just as easily cheat on me too if I ended up with him.

I agree, noone is responsible for another's actions and thoughts.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogamy"]Monogamy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
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