The Re-Ordered American Girl Doll..

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DeeDee249 said:
PR and JR had been away for a few days in the weeks before the murder. During that time, JRB had won the 1996 "Little Miss Christmas" pageant there, and appeared in a parade. Nedra and Grandpa P were in Boulder babysitting JBR and her brother. There is a haunting photo of JBR riding in a car/float at that pageant, looking rather forlorn. The Santa Bear was given to at that pageant. PR wasn't there when she won it, but believe me, she knew where it came from. It was just convenient for her that she was away and could say she never saw it. As for the "mystery earring" that appears on the belt of the Santa bear, JBR always wore adult-style clip earrings in her pageant photos, and I'd bet that's why that earring was there. She may have worn them that night, clipping them on the bear when she took them off. Those clip-on earrings hurt- they are very uncomfortable. There was supposedly a matching single earring found in the street outside the house. I think this may have just been innocently dropped there- and probably never missed.
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Hi DeeDee.

Gee. As always ty for the info DeeDee, I had remembered that after the massive search for the suspect bear, the BP eliminated the bear as a 'calling card'. I was hoping to stumble upon that link, but as always you're so gracious with the info, plus the reminder about the earrings, yet another oddity.

I have always wondered about Pam Paugh gathering up a carload of items .... clothes, mementos, toys, passports and the golfclubs.
I know its been often discussed, comparisons/speculation to what others might have done/taken under similar circumstances.... I just wonder .... why the golfclubs ..... the odd nature of what was taken and the amount.... the things taken were the 'necessaties' at that time?
 
Tadpole12 said:
Hi DeeDee.

Gee. As always ty for the info DeeDee, I had remembered that after the massive search for the suspect bear, the BP eliminated the bear as a 'calling card'. I was hoping to stumble upon that link, but as always you're so gracious with the info, plus the reminder about the earrings, yet another oddity.

I have always wondered about Pam Paugh gathering up a carload of items .... clothes, mementos, toys, passports and the golfclubs.
I know its been often discussed, comparisons/speculation to what others might have done/taken under similar circumstances.... I just wonder .... why the golfclubs ..... the odd nature of what was taken and the amount.... the things taken were the 'necessaties' at that time?
Click to expand...


IMO..that golf bag contained evidence. Patsy even said herself, that John was NOT an avid golfer. And couldn't remember the last time that he had played. So why was he so adament about Pam getting those golf clubs? It wasn't the clubs that he wanted...it was that bag. IMO
 
Ames said:
Thanks for clearing that up Dee Dee. To hear Patsy tell it...you would think that she had NEVER been in JB's room before...after she received the bear. I know every stuffed animal in my 7 year old's room...because I do go in her room every now and then...LOL Patsy took any and everything that she could...from the bear, to a simple kleenex box...and made it look like she had NEVER seen them before....so the "intruder" must have brought those in with him....along with the tape, the rope, the bat, a flashlight...and whatever else we are supposed to believe that he brought into the Ramsey home that night. He must have brought a U-Haul truck with him.

I agree about the ear-rings.
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but he forgets pen n ppr...most imprt for a 'ransom note'!
 
Ames said:
Funny, because the Ramsey's and Pam denied the bear belonged to JB, but I read somewhere that they were handed out at one of the pageants that she was in.

This is also from the Rocky Mountain News...

"In 1999, investigators released a photograph and asked for the public's help in identifying a small stuffed bear dressed in a Santa Claus suit. It was found in the Ramsey home, and the girl's parents didn't recognize it.
Investigators later learned the bear had been a prize in a beauty contest won by JonBenet a couple of weeks before she was killed."

FROM AMES: Yet ANOTHER thing that the Ramsey's tried to blame on the intruder. And you know as well as I do...that Patsy remembered JB winning that bear.
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absolutely she did.what intruder brings in a bear to show to a child in the dark?? then sits it down,instead of giving it to her.that would be an immediate red flag to the parents if a strange item was in the room! and if that was the point,then it wouldn't have been left arranged on the other bed.
some things about this case are just so darn silly!
 
JMO8778 said:
but he forgets pen n ppr...most imprt for a 'ransom note'!
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Yeah, right! I guess that the "intruder" just had so many other things to remember, "he" forgot those...so "he" had to borrow them from J and P. That was nice of him to put them back where they belonged, though.
 
Mr (false) Intruder was a real 'gentleman' you know! :D it was probably his good southern common sense he used to behave that way.must be tidy, must be tidy..
 
JMO8778 said:
absolutely she did.what intruder brings in a bear to show to a child in the dark?? then sits it down,instead of giving it to her.that would be an immediate red flag to the parents if a strange item was in the room! and if that was the point,then it wouldn't have been left arranged on the other bed.
some things about this case are just so darn silly!
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Oh, and "he" puts ONE ear-ring on it before showing it to JB in the dark, and sitting it down on the other bed. Yep...pretty darn silly indeed.
 
JMO8778 said:
Mr (false) Intruder was a real 'gentleman' you know! :D it was probably his good southern common sense he used to behave that way.must be tidy, must be tidy..
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LOL! My husband needs to take tidy lessons from him....Mr. (false) Intruder.
 
Tadpole12 said:
Hi DeeDee.

Gee. As always ty for the info DeeDee, I had remembered that after the massive search for the suspect bear, the BP eliminated the bear as a 'calling card'. I was hoping to stumble upon that link, but as always you're so gracious with the info, plus the reminder about the earrings, yet another oddity.

I have always wondered about Pam Paugh gathering up a carload of items .... clothes, mementos, toys, passports and the golfclubs.
I know its been often discussed, comparisons/speculation to what others might have done/taken under similar circumstances.... I just wonder .... why the golfclubs ..... the odd nature of what was taken and the amount.... the things taken were the 'necessaties' at that time?
Click to expand...

That golf bag appears in a crime photo right outside the wineceller door- literally steps from JBR's body. I have always been suspicious of JR's request for his golf bag. It was late December in Colorado- where was he going to golf? There was the upcoming funeral in Atlanta- but imagine the mind-set needed to plan a day of golf around your little girl's funeral? ("Gee, I hope I get to play a few holes after we plant JonBenet".)
There was something much more important about that golf bag. And I'd bet all the missing links are right inside. Or were.
 
it would be neat if in the future some type of x-ray could be used to see through the bag. :) probably not possible,I'm guessing.wishful thinking.
 
JMO8778 said:
it would be neat if in the future some type of x-ray could be used to see through the bag. :) probably not possible,I'm guessing.wishful thinking.
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Yeah, I wonder why you can x-ray people, or luggage...to see whats inside...but, can't x-ray something that is in a picture? Looks like an x-ray machine could detect it no matter what. Then again...maybe it's too early for me, and I haven't had my coffee yet.
 
Ames said:
Yeah, I wonder why you can x-ray people, or luggage...to see whats inside...but, can't x-ray something that is in a picture? Looks like an x-ray machine could detect it no matter what. Then again...maybe it's too early for me, and I haven't had my coffee yet.
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Sorry- the X-Ray works only on actual objects, LOL. The BAG had objects inside. The photo of the bag does not. Be good if we had someone with X-Ray vision, though. Or invisible.

OT- If I were invisible, I'd pinch or slap people who annoyed me. Especially public figures and in-laws.
Here's some people I'd slap if I were invisible:

Sean Penn
Madonna
Lindsay Lohan and Mom
Barbara Streisand
Brangelina (that really 2 people, but I count them as one).
ANY Kardashian
 
DeeDee249 said:
PR and JR had been away for a few days in the weeks before the murder. During that time, JRB had won the 1996 "Little Miss Christmas" pageant there, and appeared in a parade. Nedra and Grandpa P were in Boulder babysitting JBR and her brother. There is a haunting photo of JBR riding in a car/float at that pageant, looking rather forlorn. The Santa Bear was given to at that pageant. PR wasn't there when she won it, but believe me, she knew where it came from. It was just convenient for her that she was away and could say she never saw it. As for the "mystery earring" that appears on the belt of the Santa bear, JBR always wore adult-style clip earrings in her pageant photos, and I'd bet that's why that earring was there. She may have worn them that night, clipping them on the bear when she took them off. Those clip-on earrings hurt- they are very uncomfortable. There was supposedly a matching single earring found in the street outside the house. I think this may have just been innocently dropped there- and probably never missed.
Click to expand...


This is all stuff of which I was pretty much ignorant but a little kid losing the earring innocently sounds the most reasonable explanation.
 
Tadpole12 said:
Hi Ames.

Ty. All that information and the described trail back to the Ramseys, fascinating. That info combined with the "Santa Bear fiasco" ..... is very suggestive.


http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0129ramy1.shtml

DA casts net for a Santa bear
Hunter asks public to help locate toy or ID its maker as possible clue in JonBenet case


The white bear dressed in a Santa suit puzzles authorities. Its whereabouts apparently are a mystery, adding a twist to the tangled 2-year-old case.
Family members say the bear did not belong to JonBenet, the 6-year-old beauty princess found murdered in her family's basement the afternoon of Dec. 26, 1996.

"It wasn't hers," said the child's aunt, Pam Paugh. "I believe it was on the other (twin) bed in JonBenet's room." "It's an example of something left in the house that didn't belong there and wasn't owned by any member of the family. And, that's pretty significant, in my book."

The bear is not listed among the hundreds of items seized from the Ramsey's upscale Boulder home during the 10-day search that followed discovery of the child's body. That and Hunter's unusual public appeal indicate it's not in the possession of authorities.
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Ty Tadpole. You know, what burns about this is Hunter making such an effort to identify the provenance of the bear. While this was the right thing to do, had he shown anywhere near this vigour in terms of executing search warrants in the early days of the investigation, we may have had closure on the case. I know I am really boring on this topic but Hunter ranted on about how he believed with every fibre of his being in the presumption of innocence while ST didn't but I honestly believe that a prosecutor is displaying a presumption of guilt if s/he doesn't issue the appropriate warrants since s/he should really presume that the suspect's innocence will be proven by the warrants. (Rant over - with apologies).
 
Sophie said:
Ty Tadpole. You know, what burns about this is Hunter making such an effort to identify the provenance of the bear. While this was the right thing to do, had he shown anywhere near this vigour in terms of executing search warrants in the early days of the investigation, we may have had closure on the case. I know I am really boring on this topic but Hunter ranted on about how he believed with every fibre of his being in the presumption of innocence while ST didn't but I honestly believe that a prosecutor is displaying a presumption of guilt if s/he doesn't issue the appropriate warrants since s/he should really presume that the suspect's innocence will be proven by the warrants. (Rant over - with apologies).
Click to expand...

Hi Sophie.

Nah man. get it off your chest.
Ridiculous to be searching for that bear at that point in time.
When I read the headline, I was astounded. Yes, a reflection of Hunter's apathy.
 
Tadpole12 said:
Hi Sophie.

Nah man. get it off your chest.
Ridiculous to be searching for that bear at that point in time.
When I read the headline, I was astounded. Yes, a reflection of Hunter's apathy.
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LOL at 'nah man.' Are you sure you aren't a Geordie?

WRT Hunter, I honestly think that only a confession would have persuaded him to prosecute the Ramseys and even then, he'd have wanted a slam dunk bit of physical evidence....
 
Rant away. We all need to from time to time. Here is a link to a page that has photos that may be of interest to new posters here. Included are the Santa Bear (with earring attached to his belt) and pics of JBR's bed, the still-neat foot section clearly shown, covered with clothes, but easily showing that no blanket was pulled from that bed. Why is this important? The Rs would have you believe that the "kidnapper" took her from her bed, wrapping her with her own blanket. She was found wrapped in her blanket, but it was not taken from her bed. There was no way a blanket could have been pulled from that bed and have the foot remain made. Later. when shown this photo, under questioning from LE, Pr admitted that the bed did look as if the foot part was still made and that it was apparent that the bed had been made up without the white blanket. This interview is available on ACR. There are also photos of the golf bag where it was found in front of the wineceller door, the blanket "in situ" on the wineceller floor, and the autopsy photos that were made public.
Here's the link to the photos: There are three pages total, you can scroll down to access the other pages.

http://www.crimeshots.com/CrimeScene2.html
 
Ames, just a clarification if possible. Which doll was reordered? Was it a Molly or a Samantha doll? I reread everything over and either I'm tired or I just didn't find that answer. Thanks in advance!
 
DeeDee249 said:
Sorry- the X-Ray works only on actual objects, LOL. The BAG had objects inside. The photo of the bag does not. Be good if we had someone with X-Ray vision, though. Or invisible.

OT- If I were invisible, I'd pinch or slap people who annoyed me. Especially public figures and in-laws.
Here's some people I'd slap if I were invisible:

Sean Penn
Madonna
Lindsay Lohan and Mom
Barbara Streisand
Brangelina (that really 2 people, but I count them as one).
ANY Kardashian
Click to expand...

LOL...doggone it, I guess it was just wishful thinking. Where is Superman when you need him? We could ask SuperDave, maybe he has x-ray vision. I agree with you...the people that you would slap if you were invisible, would get double slapped...by me. I would add JR to that list, and PR...if she were alive today. I especially agree with the IN-LAWS!!!! I would punch them out. LOL
 
nobull said:
Ames, just a clarification if possible. Which doll was reordered? Was it a Molly or a Samantha doll? I reread everything over and either I'm tired or I just didn't find that answer. Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I believe it was a Samantha doll. The same doll that Patsy had ordered for JB in July...
 
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