Cesar Laurean's Trial

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I definitely am in agreement with that! Just to add, Maria's body was disposed of in an atrocious manner but that isn't what Cesar was on trial for. I feel the jury may have been so appalled by the aftermath that affected their decision on premeditation in order to convict him of her murder. I still believe McNeil has a point about the absence of 2nd degree murder charges. We'll just have to wait and see what an appellate court thinks. MOO

I absolutely agree and I think Dewey was counting on that.

He was not charged with desecrating her body. He was not charged with the death of Maria's child yet Dewey made that a part of the homicide imo and it simply wasnt.

It is very hard for a jury to strictly go by the charge and the law that applies to it when they are shown such horrific photos. Imo that is why Dewey whipped out the photo of Maria's remains in the firepit in closing arguments when it had nothing to do with the murder charge. He wanted to inflame the passions of the jury, imo.

I have never understood why graphic photos are entered anyway. A ME always testifies to how the victim died and usually shows diagrams of the injuries. I think one day the higher courts will agree that it is very prejudicial to the defendant. They have already overturned some cases because of it.

IMO
 
I really think that is overstated. When they first go in they all go to boot camp which mostly consists of endurance and discipline training and then they go for a 30 day training on how to shoot and take care of their weapons and learning how to survive by themselves in remote areas and find their way back to camp without a map etc.

But Cesar wasn't a grunt (infantry). He had a desk job and only had to meet physical requirements once a year and go to the rifle range once a year.

Now sure they get into major fist fights. Usually alcohol related, women and bar hopping. And some of the grunts can be scary dudes. Anyone that chooses infantry as their MOS is a little touched in the head to me. J/K lol I guess they like the hand to hand combat and our military does need these type in the armed services.

IMO


Respectfully, I have to disagree. With the implementation of MCMAP or "Semper Fu", the Corps has placed a much stronger emphasis on hand to hand combat training, not only in MCT (the 30 day course for POG's) but throughout a Marine's career, regardless of their MOS. Progression through the program is a major fitrep bullet and something that is highly "encouraged" for career advancement.Also, (and I realize this is being nitpicky) not only do POG's have a PFT and rifle qualification, they also have to pass a Combat Fitness test yearly. Desk job or not, a rating of "stellar", a meritorious promotion and recommendation for a second meritorious promotion board suggest Cesar wasn't the type of Marine to do the bare minimum.

I've worked in ERs in Army hospitals, inner city civilian trauma centers, and at Naval, and unfortunately I've seen more than my fair of violence in each facility I've worked. Yes, there are a lot of alcohol related incidents with Marines (but really? Stick a bunch of young, alpha males in a town with very little to do, and what seems like a 10 to 1 male-to-female ratio and what do you expect?) and you are oh so correct your observation that grunts can be, well, a little off sometimes, but even accounting for that, I still see a difference in the way they release aggression towards others. I don't know if it's because they place more confidence in their physical abilities (deserved or undeserved), or maybe they have a greater respect for the damage a weapon can cause,but in the hundreds of injuries resulting from the violent act of a male Marine I've seen, I can't recall many that involved any object being used as a weapon, alcohol related or not. Not chairs, bar stools, beer bottles, vases, remotes... Of the ones that did involve weapons, the majority were purposeful intent to cause grave bodily injury. Tragically, it's been my experience that usually when a weapon is involved with a male Marine, more often than not it's used to inflict injury on themselves, not others.

Females on the other hand? Totally different story.

Again, these are only my impressions, based on my personal experience and I take no offense if you disagree with them. I really do enjoy hearing other people's viewpoints. Just trying to explain why I have the point of view that I have. I realize that every person, every situation is different and there are no hard and fast rules as to what a person would do, solely based on the fact that he or she is a Marine, and I'm definitely not trying to imply that all Marines are violent people, because the majority of them absolutely are not.

P.S. For clarification purposes to anyone else reading this, a POG is a "person other than grunt", in other words, a person with a job that isn't an infantry position. Also... I really, really respect do OceanBlueEyes, she makes wonderful, intelligent points that make me think very hard about why I believe what I believe, and I very much appreciate that. ;)
 
I absolutely agree and I think Dewey was counting on that.

He was not charged with desecrating her body. He was not charged with the death of Maria's child yet Dewey made that a part of the homicide imo and it simply wasnt.

It is very hard for a jury to strictly go by the charge and the law that applies to it when they are shown such horrific photos. Imo that is why Dewey whipped out the photo of Maria's remains in the firepit in closing arguments when it had nothing to do with the murder charge. He wanted to inflame the passions of the jury, imo.

I have never understood why graphic photos are entered anyway. A ME always testifies to how the victim died and usually shows diagrams of the injuries. I think one day the higher courts will agree that it is very prejudicial to the defendant. They have already overturned some cases because of it.

IMO

I could go on and on about why I agree with this 100%, but my fingers are tired. ;) So yeah... what Ocean said.
 
http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/101518084.html

D.A.'s Office Wants To Know If Anyone Helped Laurean While On The Run
Now that former Camp Lejeune Marine Cesar Laurean has been found guilty of first degree murder in the death of pregnant colleague Maria Lauterbach, prosecutors want to know if his wife Christina aided him while he was on the run.
Posted: 7:33 PM Aug 25, 2010
Reporter: Dave Jordan
 
I absolutely agree and I think Dewey was counting on that.

He was not charged with desecrating her body. He was not charged with the death of Maria's child yet Dewey made that a part of the homicide imo and it simply wasnt.

It is very hard for a jury to strictly go by the charge and the law that applies to it when they are shown such horrific photos. Imo that is why Dewey whipped out the photo of Maria's remains in the firepit in closing arguments when it had nothing to do with the murder charge. He wanted to inflame the passions of the jury, imo.

I have never understood why graphic photos are entered anyway. A ME always testifies to how the victim died and usually shows diagrams of the injuries. I think one day the higher courts will agree that it is very prejudicial to the defendant. They have already overturned some cases because of it.

IMO
As far as not charging for the death of Maria's unborn child, sadly our state still doesn't allow for that. It is difficult for a jury to separate that fact however when Maria's pregnancy was an integral part of the state's case in regard to possible motive. :( MOO
 
http://charlotte.news14.com/content...eman-describes-what-led-to-laurean-conviction
jury-foreman-describes-what-led-to-laurean-conviction

I too want to know all the details between the time Maria last talked to her mother, to when Maria was found in the firepit.

I suppose Cesar has a lot of time to write his book, after the civil trial and divorce.

Maybe the guards will shoot him dead while he is "trying to escape".
 
I wasn't the least bit surprised that the jury determined their verdict based on "after the fact" crimes even though they were to consider only the homicide charge, and determine whether it was premeditated or not. Which the State couldn't prove. They couldn't even find one communication made between the two of them that day before Maria showed up at his home.

I don't think Cesar or Christina have any intentions of writing a book or being interviewed.

I am very interested though in what evidence the defense had that was not allowed in by the Judge. The appellate court will take a close look at all motions and rulings starting during pre-trial hearings through the trial and that is the usual time attorneys argue whether evidence comes in or doesn't.

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/100231629.html

The trial was moved out of Jacksonville because of extensive pre-trial publicity on the case.

Laurean will appeal the verdict with an appealed defender and his attorney says there will be additional evidence that wasn't allowed in court initially.

**************

I think the defense has viable issues for their appeal.

1. Not offering the jury 2nd degree when premeditation wasnt proven by the state.

2. Showing of the photos of Maria in the firepit and showing the hand of her baby. He was not charged with desecrating the body and he was not charged with the baby's death. Imo, it was only done to imflame the passions of the jury.

3. Defense evidence disallowed. It made the defense unable to defend his client to the best of his ability.

4. Putting in the rape allegations when he wasnt even charged or arrested for the crime in 7 months. In fact I read an article in the Jacksonvlle Daily News saying that NCIS cleared him of that allegation.

I also think Laurean will be a model prisoner. We have never heard of one discipline problem since he has been in the jail. He is very use to a structured environment by getting up early and following orders.

IMO
 
I also think Laurean will be a model prisoner. We have never heard of one discipline problem since he has been in the jail. He is very use to a structured environment by getting up early and following orders.

Perhaps, but my comment above, about the guards shooting Laurean while trying to escape, was just wishful thinking. :saythat:
 
This is an interesting article.

NC Report: State Crime Lab Withheld or Overstated Evidence in 230 Cases

http://www.abajournal.com/news/arti...withheld_or_overstated_evidence_in_230_cases/

The exoneration of a North Carolina man imprisoned 17 years for a murder he didn’t commit has led to a review of the State Bureau of Investigation and some surprising findings: The SBI withheld or overstated blood evidence in 230 cases, 190 of which resulted in criminal charges.

The state had a written policy beginning in 1997 to withhold results of more sophisticated blood tests that would have shown a substance on an SUV driven by exonerated inmate Greg Taylor was not in fact blood, the Raleigh News & Observer reports.

According to the newspaper, the impact of the findings “will reverberate for years to come as prosecutors and defense attorneys re-examine cases as much as two decades old to figure out whether these errors robbed defendants of justice. Some of the injustices can be addressed as attorneys bring old cases back to court. For others, it's too late: Three of the defendants in botched cases have been executed.”:furious:

An Associated Press story on the report calls the findings “a scathing review.” Among the cases mentioned in the report were those against two men sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Michael Jordan’s father.

Taylor, whose 1993 conviction was overturned in February, told EyewitnessNews9 that the report shows the need for an independent crime lab.


I bet some of these defendants were innocent and someone probably at the time wanted nothing but bad things to come to them too.

IMO
 
This is an interesting article.

NC Report: State Crime Lab Withheld or Overstated Evidence in 230 Cases

http://www.abajournal.com/news/arti...withheld_or_overstated_evidence_in_230_cases/

(respectfully snipped for space)

IMO
I am curious if Cesar's appellate attorney will address issues with the crime lab and the blood evidence collected in this case? I wouldn't imagine there would be any argument about his DNA not being found on the crowbar however. :waitasec: MOO
 
I am curious if Cesar's appellate attorney will address issues with the crime lab and the blood evidence collected in this case? I wouldn't imagine there would be any argument about his DNA not being found on the crowbar however. :waitasec: MOO

I am very suspicious of everything now Panthera after learning about this.

It bugs the crap out of me that the state waited to send the crowbar out until this year. WHY? It makes no logical sense to me. The supposed weapon is one of the first things tested in all cases. Yet in this case it was not and imo there had to be a calculated reason for that.

Also I wonder if other tests were available that could have included and conclusively identified the one other person's DNA that was in the mixture with Maria's. Did this unethical lab just put down "inconclusive" and move on?

I have heard so many forensic scientists say that in today's time they don't need a pin head amount of DNA to get a profile because more and more sophisticated tests are being developed in order to do this when they didn't know how to do it a few years back.

With this coming to light in NC it just leaves me not knowing who to trust anymore.

Trials have become more about high drama and shock and awe than about the real facts in evidence, imo.

IMO
 
I am very suspicious of everything now Panthera after learning about this.

It bugs the crap out of me that the state waited to send the crowbar out until this year. WHY? It makes no logical sense to me. The supposed weapon is one of the first things tested in all cases. Yet in this case it was not and imo there had to be a calculated reason for that.

Also I wonder if other tests were available that could have included and conclusively identified the one other person's DNA that was in the mixture with Maria's. Did this unethical lab just put down "inconclusive" and move on?

I have heard so many forensic scientists say that in today's time they don't need a pin head amount of DNA to get a profile because more and more sophisticated tests are being developed in order to do this when they didn't know how to do it a few years back.

With this coming to light in NC it just leaves me not knowing who to trust anymore.

Trials have become more about high drama and shock and awe than about the real facts in evidence, imo.

IMO
I am in complete agreement about testing of the crowbar not taking place until this summer and can't think of any logical explanation for the long wait. However, except for Maria's DNA being on it, the results actually goes in favor of the defense as Cesar's DNA is not on the crowbar. I am curious though what specific tests were done to try to get a more accurate profile of the contributors. :waitasec: MOO
 
I am in complete agreement about testing of the crowbar not taking place until this summer and can't think of any logical explanation for the long wait. However, except for Maria's DNA being on it, the results actually goes in favor of the defense as Cesar's DNA is not on the crowbar. I am curious though what specific tests were done to try to get a more accurate profile of the contributors. :waitasec: MOO

I agree. I can find no rational or logical explanation why the state would wait years to test what could have been their most compelling piece of evidence.

While the lack of Cesar's DNA did help him but it would have helped him more if Christina's DNA could have been conclusively identified. That is why I wonder if more sensitive tests were available but not done due to the short time that the test results came back in before trial.

The crowbar is quite lengthy so this other person just didn't touch the crowbar in another place but actually touched it the only place Maria's DNA was found. I just find the odds of that happening compelling.

IMO
 
I agree. I can find no rational or logical explanation why the state would wait years to test what could have been their most compelling piece of evidence.

While the lack of Cesar's DNA did help him but it would have helped him more if Christina's DNA could have been conclusively identified. That is why I wonder if more sensitive tests were available but not done due to the short time that the test results came back in before trial.

The crowbar is quite lengthy so this other person just didn't touch the crowbar in another place but actually touched it the only place Maria's DNA was found. I just find the odds of that happening compelling.

IMO
What I'm wondering is if the defense had it tested or had the funds for the more definitive DNA tests. Another thing about the crowbar is even if someone attempted to clean it before handing it off, why isn't the DNA of the person(s) it was given to on it? Or is that part of the mixture? :waitasec: Just another curious oddity about this case. MOO
 
What I'm wondering is if the defense had it tested or had the funds for the more definitive DNA tests. Another thing about the crowbar is even if someone attempted to clean it before handing it off, why isn't the DNA of the person(s) it was given to on it? Or is that part of the mixture? :waitasec: Just another curious oddity about this case. MOO

If the state just got the test results back 19 days before the trial and they sent it off in January there would be no time for the defense to retest. Remember McNeil had already been given a delay in the trial because of his knee surgery. I don't think the Judge would have given him another delay.

I recall the man who had the crowbar and his wife gave their DNA samples and the mixture with Maria's DNA was from an unknown person where Christina couldn't be excluded.

IMO
 
If the state just got the test results back 19 days before the trial and they sent it off in January there would be no time for the defense to retest. Remember McNeil had already been given a delay in the trial because of his knee surgery. I don't think the Judge would have given him another delay.

I recall the man who had the crowbar and his wife gave their DNA samples and the mixture with Maria's DNA was from an unknown person where Christina couldn't be excluded.

IMO
I'm still baffled by the testing results. I do believe however, the only reason the defense didn't object or want it retested was because Cesar's DNA wasn't on it. But obviously that didn't make much difference with the jury. MOO
 
I just finished reading the rest of this thread. I have always thought Cesar was guilty of murdering Maria and Baby Gabriel. I also think that Christina was either an accomplice or at the very least an Accessory after the fact.

JMO
 
I'm still baffled by the testing results. I do believe however, the only reason the defense didn't object or want it retested was because Cesar's DNA wasn't on it. But obviously that didn't make much difference with the jury. MOO

No it didn't. However I think it would have if Christina's DNA could have been conclusively determined to be in the mixture of Maria's DNA.

Many pretrial motions are made before trial. I am wondering if McNeil did ask that the crowbar be retested and was denied. Usually the Judge will hold a hearing to decide what evidence is going to come in and what is not and this is often done before the trial starts.

Since the defense has stated that the appeal will include evidence that was disallowed by the Judge, I just wonder if this will be one of the issues.

IMO
 
No it didn't. However I think it would have if Christina's DNA could have been conclusively determined to be in the mixture of Maria's DNA.

Many pretrial motions are made before trial. I am wondering if McNeil did ask that the crowbar be retested and was denied. Usually the Judge will hold a hearing to decide what evidence is going to come in and what is not and this is often done before the trial starts.

Since the defense has stated that the appeal will include evidence that was disallowed by the Judge, I just wonder if this will be one of the issues.

IMO
Right now, tonight, I can't watch the video of testimony regarding the crowbar so please refresh my memory what lab did the testing on the crowbar? Was it ever sent to the FBI lab? :waitasec: MOO
 
Right now, tonight, I can't watch the video of testimony regarding the crowbar so please refresh my memory what lab did the testing on the crowbar? Was it ever sent to the FBI lab? :waitasec: MOO

I dont think so. It was sent to the now infamous NC State Crime lab.

IMO
 
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