GUILTY IL - Kimberly Vaughn, 34, & 3 children slain, Channahon Twp, 14 June 2007

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bobbisangel said:
The defense attorney knew before he ever filed that piece of paperwork that it would be denied. I don't know why it should be the job of a defense attorney to delay and delay and delay with their pile of filings which they know are bogus in the first place. They have a job to do but the majority of them are so unethical it makes me ill. They twist and turn facts and come as close to lying as they dare. I agree there are worthless Prosecutors too but I was talking about this attorney and others just like him.
Click to expand...

If an attorney files a bogus motion, they can be disbarred.

The law is an ever-changing organism and attorneys do not know what decisions the Courts are going to come to. There are precedents they can look at ,of course - but the law changes and gets changed every day in Courts just like this one.

Additionally, it is the duty of Vaughn's defense attorney to represent his client zealously. He would not be doing that (and he could be disbarred for not doing that) if he didn't try to fight the extradiction.

The motion that this defense attorney filed was not denied - in fact, the Judge is going to hear it later this month. Based on past precedents, it seems likely that it will be denied, but I promise you that no one really knows that.

If you don't like our system, that's fine. But I don't understand disliking people who are required to play by its rules.

It's not like Vaughn's attorneys tactics are buying his client the high life -he's languishing in jail with inmates who want to kill him. It's Vaughn's attorneys job to make sure the Prosecutor does his job - to include getting Vaughn to the right place to be tried.

I definitely understand that the slowness of our legal process can be frustrating, but I personally am grateful for it because it helps to ensure that things are done right and because I feel like it is the best system in the world.

Justice is a lot swifter in some countries where one person or a small group of people can decide in a shroud of darkness that someone is guilty and then chop off their head that night, but truly I'll take our way over that any minute of the day.
 
~snip~

Vaughn's attorneys had hoped to learn more by talking to Illinois State Police Sgt. Gary Lawson, but St. Charles County prosecutors successfully argued in court Friday that case law is "crystal clear"--the underlying facts of the case are irrelevant in an extradition case.

"Eventually, this young man is going back to Illinois, even if I have to drive him there myself," St. Charles County Prosecutor Jack Banas said after the judge's ruling.

Vaughn's attorneys say they have not yet decided if they will appeal the decision.

http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/local_story_182230825.html
 
southcitymom said:
If an attorney files a bogus motion, they can be disbarred.

The law is an ever-changing organism and attorneys do not know what decisions the Courts are going to come to. There are precedents they can look at ,of course - but the law changes and gets changed every day in Courts just like this one.

Additionally, it is the duty of Vaughn's defense attorney to represent his client zealously. He would not be doing that (and he could be disbarred for not doing that) if he didn't try to fight the extradiction.

The motion that this defense attorney filed was not denied - in fact, the Judge is going to hear it later this month. Based on past precedents, it seems likely that it will be denied, but I promise you that no one really knows that.

If you don't like our system, that's fine. But I don't understand disliking people who are required to play by its rules.

It's not like Vaughn's attorneys tactics are buying his client the high life -he's languishing in jail with inmates who want to kill him. It's Vaughn's attorneys job to make sure the Prosecutor does his job - to include getting Vaughn to the right place to be tried.

I definitely understand that the slowness of our legal process can be frustrating, but I personally am grateful for it because it helps to ensure that things are done right and because I feel like it is the best system in the world.

Justice is a lot swifter in some countries where one person or a small group of people can decide in a shroud of darkness that someone is guilty and then chop off their head that night, but truly I'll take our way over that any minute of the day.
Click to expand...

Excellent post!!

And another thing.....If a defense attorney fails to try every trick in the book, the murderer will have a much better chance at an appeal based on ineffective counsel. In this case, there is no question that Vaughn will eventually file such an appeal, assuming he is convicted, which seems likely.

And finally, it really toasts me to hear people over-generalize about criminal defense attorneys. There is utterly NO reason to believe that "the vast majority" are unethical. The legal profession is far better self-policed than any other. The characters that show up on tv are not representative of the majority. And just because you don't like someone's tactics doesn't mean that they are not following the law.

If the judge finds a motion to be frivilous, the attorney can be sanctioned. It is for the court to decide, however, not people who don't actually know what the rules of criminal procedure say. There are common motions that are routinely denied, but failure to try them is MALPRACTICE.
 
luthersmama said:
Excellent post!!

And another thing.....If a defense attorney fails to try every trick in the book, the murderer will have a much better chance at an appeal based on ineffective counsel. In this case, there is no question that Vaughn will eventually file such an appeal, assuming he is convicted, which seems likely.

And finally, it really toasts me to hear people over-generalize about criminal defense attorneys. There is utterly NO reason to believe that "the vast majority" are unethical. The legal profession is far better self-policed than any other. The characters that show up on tv are not representative of the majority. And just because you don't like someone's tactics doesn't mean that they are not following the law.

If the judge finds a motion to be frivilous, the attorney can be sanctioned. It is for the court to decide, however, not people who don't actually know what the rules of criminal procedure say. There are common motions that are routinely denied, but failure to try them is MALPRACTICE.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing this out.

I think some people have difficulty respecting an attorney who defends someone who has committed such heinous crimes. But defense attorneys are a vital part of our judicial system and most of them are painstakingly ethical. Most attorneys in general are painstakingly ethical and - as you point out - the ones that aren't get policed out of the profession pretty rapidly.

I want Vaughn extradited as quickly as possible, but so far his counsel in this matter has done nothing to warrant being called names.
 
07/02/2007

BREAKING NEWS: Sources Say Vaughn Changes Mind About Extradition - Suspect Could Be Back In Illinois By Tuesday

CHICAGO -- "NBC5 News has learned on Monday that a man accused of shooting his wife and three children to death has changed his mind and will not fight extradition to Illinois. Sources said Vaughn is expected in court on Tuesday afternoon and could be back in Illinois by the end of the day"

http://www.nbc5.com/news/13611181/d...chi_break&ts=T&tmi=chi_break_1_10010207022007

:)
 
southcitymom said:
If an attorney files a bogus motion, they can be disbarred.

The law is an ever-changing organism and attorneys do not know what decisions the Courts are going to come to. There are precedents they can look at ,of course - but the law changes and gets changed every day in Courts just like this one.

Additionally, it is the duty of Vaughn's defense attorney to represent his client zealously. He would not be doing that (and he could be disbarred for not doing that) if he didn't try to fight the extradiction.

The motion that this defense attorney filed was not denied - in fact, the Judge is going to hear it later this month. Based on past precedents, it seems likely that it will be denied, but I promise you that no one really knows that.

If you don't like our system, that's fine. But I don't understand disliking people who are required to play by its rules.

It's not like Vaughn's attorneys tactics are buying his client the high life -he's languishing in jail with inmates who want to kill him. It's Vaughn's attorneys job to make sure the Prosecutor does his job - to include getting Vaughn to the right place to be tried.

I definitely understand that the slowness of our legal process can be frustrating, but I personally am grateful for it because it helps to ensure that things are done right and because I feel like it is the best system in the world.

Justice is a lot swifter in some countries where one person or a small group of people can decide in a shroud of darkness that someone is guilty and then chop off their head that night, but truly I'll take our way over that any minute of the day.
Click to expand...



It's denied now........


STNG) St. Charles, Mo. A Missouri judge Friday afternoon refused to let attorneys for an Oswego man accused of killing his family question one of the lead investigators in the murder case.


You said........


If you don't like our system, that's fine. But I don't understand disliking people who are required to play by its rules.

It's one thing if they play by the rules but this defense knew that he wouldn't be able to depo that investigator when he wrote that motion. It is something that is never done. I've never seen many defense attorneys that play by the rules. For those that don't I wonder how they look at themselves in the mirror everyday.
 
Bobbisangel said:
It's denied now........
Click to expand...

The Motion has not been denied. We don't know if it will be denied or if Vaughn's attorney will withdraw it.

I am glad he has decided not to fight it. He probably realizes he doesn't have much of a chance to win it AND he's probably ready to get out of a jail where all the other prisoners want to kill him.
 
Either that or he figured out that if he goes back to IL that his lawyer there will be able to file the same motion. They will set bond and he thinks he will be able to get out.
 
southcitymom said:
The Motion has not been denied. We don't know if it will be denied or if Vaughn's attorney will withdraw it.

I am glad he has decided not to fight it. He probably realizes he doesn't have much of a chance to win it AND he's probably ready to get out of a jail where all the other prisoners want to kill him.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm........... so where do you think he's going to find a jail where all the other prisoners aren't going to want to kill him? I'm thinking that's going to follow him wherever he ends up. If we're lucky, someone will succeed IMO. Save the state of Illinois a whole lotta money and time.......
 
TallCoolOne said:
Hmmmm........... so where do you think he's going to find a jail where all the other prisoners aren't going to want to kill him? I'm thinking that's going to follow him wherever he ends up. If we're lucky, someone will succeed IMO. Save the state of Illinois a whole lotta money and time.......
Click to expand...

I was thinking these exact same thoughts.
 
Mysticchic said:
Either that or he figured out that if he goes back to IL that his lawyer there will be able to file the same motion. They will set bond and he thinks he will be able to get out.
Click to expand...

I don't think they would file a Motion to fight extradition once he returned to the place that wanted him back. It wouldn't make much sense.

Wonder what bond will be. I doubt he'll be getting out.
 
TallCoolOne said:
Hmmmm........... so where do you think he's going to find a jail where all the other prisoners aren't going to want to kill him? I'm thinking that's going to follow him wherever he ends up. If we're lucky, someone will succeed IMO. Save the state of Illinois a whole lotta money and time.......
Click to expand...

Wherever he lands, they'll want to kill him for a while - at least until new blood enters the joint.

I'm not a fan of vigilante justice, so my money's on the trial happening.
 
southcitymom said:
Wherever he lands, they'll want to kill him for a while - at least until new blood enters the joint.

I'm not a fan of vigilante justice, so my money's on the trial happening.
Click to expand...
Well, I guess I must be evil, because I would love to read the headlines that some other criminal did him in. I would rather see that then the money spent on a costly trial and her family members have to endure the pain of a lengthy trial. Knowing how he already lied and tried to place the blame of the murders on Kim, I can only imagine what else he will try to throw out there. So, yup, I admit, I must be a 'fan'. 'Shrugs' His family didn't get much of a chance of a fair trial.
 
TallCoolOne said:
Well, I guess I must be evil, because I would love to read the headlines that some other criminal did him in. I would rather see that then the money spent on a costly trial and her family members have to endure the pain of a lengthy trial. Knowing how he already lied and tried to place the blame of the murders on Kim, I can only imagine what else he will try to throw out there. So, yup, I admit, I must be a 'fan'. 'Shrugs' His family didn't get much of a chance of a fair trial.
Click to expand...

I doubt that attitude makes you evil. Plenty of people would agree with you, I'm just not one of them.

I am grateful to live in a country where the judcial system is founded on a presumption of innocence, and then carried out through the benefit of a public trial with a pros and a defense. It's one of my favorite things about the US.

It's quite true that his family didn't get a fair trial and probably died at the hand of his one-man justice. I'm glad our country behaves with a higher moral standard than he did - I expect more from us than I do from a common murderer.
 
I've said this many times before but the first three things attornies learn is to fight (or challenge) the law, fight (or challenge) the evidence, fight (or challenge) the witness.

IMHO, part of the reason Vaughn's attorney was fighting extradition was that he was 'fishing' for the 'evidence' that prompted LE to charge his client with the murders. When that didn't work, the next defense move, imo, is to get back to where they can find out the evidence.

It seems to me that the main crux of this case is going to be 'circumstantial' and 'forensics.' A person is due a speedy trial if he requestes it, or can delay, delay, delay.

I believe that because so much of this case is based on 'forensics,' the longer Vaughn delayed extradition, the longer the pros had to accumulate proof that he committed the crime. He's probably going to allow himself to be extradited and ask for a speedy trial.

That was the problem with the OJ trial. They brought charges on OJ before the pros had their ducks in a row. Things were popping up even during trial. Vaughn's defense is probably hoping they can cause the same type of hovac that occurred during the OJ trial, making the pros speed up analysis of their forensic evidence, thus causing errors that could bring their client a not guilty verdict.

The problem with that type of thinking is, IMHO, is that forensic analysis has come a long way (baby) since the OJ trial, it doesn't take nearly as long to "bring it all together" and I believe the pros will be able to handle a speedy trial in this instance.

This trial will probably end up being 'expert' against 'expert' witnesses.

JMHO
fran



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070703vaughn-extradition,1,2332046.story?track=rss

Vaughn may waive extradition

.............snip.............

Sources close to the family said Vaughn, 32, changed his mind Monday, WGN reported.

His attorney said today there would be a court hearing in Missouri this afternoon, but that could not be confirmed with prosecutors.
 
fran said:
I've said this many times before but the first three things attornies learn is to fight (or challenge) the law, fight (or challenge) the evidence, fight (or challenge) the witness.

IMHO, part of the reason Vaughn's attorney was fighting extradition was that he was 'fishing' for the 'evidence' that prompted LE to charge his client with the murders. When that didn't work, the next defense move, imo, is to get back to where they can find out the evidence.

It seems to me that the main crux of this case is going to be 'circumstantial' and 'forensics.' A person is due a speedy trial if he requestes it, or can delay, delay, delay.

I believe that because so much of this case is based on 'forensics,' the longer Vaughn delayed extradition, the longer the pros had to accumulate proof that he committed the crime. He's probably going to allow himself to be extradited and ask for a speedy trial.

That was the problem with the OJ trial. They brought charges on OJ before the pros had their ducks in a row. Things were popping up even during trial. Vaughn's defense is probably hoping they can cause the same type of hovac that occurred during the OJ trial, making the pros speed up analysis of their forensic evidence, thus causing errors that could bring their client a not guilty verdict.

The problem with that type of thinking is, IMHO, is that forensic analysis has come a long way (baby) since the OJ trial, it doesn't take nearly as long to "bring it all together" and I believe the pros will be able to handle a speedy trial in this instance.

This trial will probably end up being 'expert' against 'expert' witnesses.

JMHO
fran



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070703vaughn-extradition,1,2332046.story?track=rss

Vaughn may waive extradition

.............snip.............

Sources close to the family said Vaughn, 32, changed his mind Monday, WGN reported.

His attorney said today there would be a court hearing in Missouri this afternoon, but that could not be confirmed with prosecutors.
Click to expand...

Great post, fran. And I agree with you that this case is going to be all about forensics. I do think Vaughn will stick to his story that he noticed he was bleeding and then he left and when he came back, his entire family was dead. Perhaps the defense will be left trying to prove that a "mysterious stranger" did all this.
 
southcitymom said:
I don't think they would file a Motion to fight extradition once he returned to the place that wanted him back. It wouldn't make much sense.

Wonder what bond will be. I doubt he'll be getting out.
Click to expand...


I ment the motion to interview the officer
 
southcitymom said:
I am grateful to live in a country where the judcial system is founded on a presumption of innocence, and then carried out through the benefit of a public trial with a pros and a defense. It's one of my favorite things about the US.

It's quite true that his family didn't get a fair trial and probably died at the hand of his one-man justice. I'm glad our country behaves with a higher moral standard than he did - I expect more from us than I do from a common murderer.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this.... but I sure wouldn't shed a tear for him if something were to happen.

And I'm all for saving the taxpayers some money. :p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 175 more.
Total: 3,962 (members: 176, guests: 3,786)

Online statistics

Members online
176
Guests online
3,786
Total visitors
3,962
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
591,836
Messages
17,959,820
Members
228,622
Latest member
crimedeepdives23
Back
Top