Cindy Anthony subpoenaed to appear in court

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RR0004 said:
Excited utterance aside...the State's attorney wants the tapes admitted to show how Casey was building her story. She went from no need to worry...Caylee is fine...to OMG (my words) my daughter's been missing for 30 days!
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IIRC, the state is using the excited utterance. Is the excited utterance out now? I thought they needed the excited utterance to get pass the hearsay law. IMO Did something change in the last month? I am well aware of Ldb trying to use Ca's hearsay coupled with Kc statement to try to show a conciousness of guilt, however they need to get pass the hearsay law. Correct?

Without the excited utterance, it is simply an interview by a 911 agent. IMO Gosh, we have been over this a million times. I believe the Judge will rule in favor of the state. IMO Ldb will get her 911 call,IMO but not so sure the Jury is going to fall for this conscienous of guilt to prove premeditated murder. IMO
If I were on the a jury , and the state was using hearsay approved by the Judge, to prove premeditated murder, my hinky meter would be raised. Why is this he said she said stuff being used if you have proof. IMO
 
Mamabear1963 said:
I go to sleep and you guys hit the ground running.

It will be interesting to see what kind of demeanor CA comes to court with on Thursday...

Grieving Grandma
Irritated, annoyed mom
quiet subdued
research, relevance queen

Only 5 days 11 hours 36 mins to go :croc:
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Lord - it's gonna be a loooooooong 5 days, 11 hours and 32 minutes now, wait....
But, it does give us time to gather our pot-luck munchies for the day.
 
RR0004 said:
ETA: It really wouldn't surprise me if Casey threatened Cindy with giving Caylee up for adoption on a regular basis. There's got to be good reason for the "spiteful b$tch" comment, IMO.
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OT But it was reported by many a KC's friends that CA threatened for custody quite often, and she even threatened custody during the 1st 911 call when the call was being transferred! There is no doubt in my mind that CA threatened for custody on June 15th.
 
Purple Iris said:
And, then, to see Casey making her little "frush-strated face", George with his pouty, arching eyebrows, and Lee.......well, snicker.
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Respectfully snipped.
You forgot to mention GAs pretty eyelash fluttering when he is lying.
 
notthatsmart said:
It is my opinion that Ca harbored these lies throughout the years and actually supported them. IMO This was always her easy way out. IMO Kc simply followed protocol and continued to lie to her parents to keep them happy. IMO Kc grew up in this vortex of circular lies and rules. IMO Kc was never allowed to tell the truth or be herself. Families live these lies all the time. Kc has a personal family counselor type of person that has interviewed her family members. IMO Kc was still a child living in that home (the home of the lies) (the only way to survive is to lie), she had never left home... IMO I am so glad that my parents supported my independence and let me be who I wanted to be and not some lie that they wished me to be. La was able to get out, being single and no children.IMO Lucky him. IMO Once Kc had a baby she was trapped in Ga and Ca life of lies. That is a route to her compelling reasons for her actions, but not motive for murder of her child. IMO This phone call may be crucial in proving to the jury that Kc was not living under ideal conditions. IMO The 64000 dollar question is, does Kc really know in her heart what is right and what is wrong? after growing up and living in this vaccum of lies. IMO So yes, I believe you are right, the gold is in Kc's voice on the phone call. IMO
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Respectfully snipped and BBM

I agree with you on this dynamic about the vortex of lies that surrounds this family. Well, at least CA and KC. I do believe that CA had an extremely unrealistic expectation from everyone in that house. And, I'm sure nothing was ever good enough, or done properly, or up to par for CA. What kills me, though, is the extent of the lies, and the continuation and perpetuation by CA of what is clearly a lie. Take the pregnancy, for example. CA is a nurse, and yet she believed KC when she said she wasn't pregnant? I don't buy it. I think CA may very well have known, and even been the one to start the "female problems" lie, and KC just went along with it. IMO, if it comes to the mitigation stage, CA is going to be KC's best chance for a more lenient sentence due to what was clearly an emotionally abusive relationship.
 
NTS,

The excited utterance is just one of the State's arguments. They list other factors as well.
 
notthatsmart said:
Why would Kc be emotional? She already knew all this information.IMO She is the one who kept her head during all of this.IMO Someone had to be calm and explain to the police what happened.IMO Ca was in no condition to make any sense at that point. IMO The fact that Kc was not emotional may help her. IMO Many children lie to their parents because their parents simply can not handle the truth. IMO It is my opinion that Ca harbored these lies throughout the years and actually supported them. IMO This was always her easy way out. IMO Kc simply followed protocol and continued to lie to her parents to keep them happy. IMO Once Kc gave Ca the cold hard facts that Caylee was missing, Ca lost it, furthermore proving my point that the parents simply can not handle the truth. IMO Kc grew up in this vortex of circular lies and rules. IMO Kc was never allowed to tell the truth or be herself. IMO, it is no wonder she was looking to move out. IMO At that point on that phone call, Kc had to step out of the family unit and be calm and talk to the 911 operator in a calm manner. IMO This is nothing new in my opinion. Families live these lies all the time. Kc has a personal family counselor type of person that has interviewed her family members. IMO Kc was still a child living in that home (the home of the lies) (the only way to survive is to lie), she had never left home... IMO I am so glad that my parents supported my independence and let me be who I wanted to be and not some lie that they wished me to be. La was able to get out, being single and no children.IMO Lucky him. IMO Once Kc had a baby she was trapped in Ga and Ca life of lies. That is a route to her compelling reasons for her actions, but not motive for murder of her child. IMO This phone call may be crucial in proving to the jury that Kc was not living under ideal conditions. IMO The 64000 dollar question is, does Kc really know in her heart what is right and what is wrong? after growing up and living in this vaccum of lies. IMO So yes, I believe you are right, the gold is in Kc's voice on the phone call. IMO
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Why would KC be emotional!!! Seriously Her daughter is gone, and she becomes less emotional as time goes by because she has had time to accept the loss of her daughter. It makes no sense!!! Most mothers would have gone insane knowing their child is missing/kidnapped. As a matter of fact most mothers would have called LE as soon as they went to the baby sitters home, and found an empty apartment. Do you see how this is going to play out to a jury? The jury is made up of those mother's, and father's who would have contacted LE ASAP.
 
Reagan said:
NTS, the excited utterance is not the only reason Prosecutors are seeking to get the 911 calls admitted.

One major theme of the State's case is to demonstrate to the jury the progression of the defendants lies about the fate of her daughter. It is essential to demonstrating that progression to show those events that led to the evolution of the "Zenaida Gonzales story and the lengths to which the Defendant would go in maintaining her various initial versions

skip..

These fabrications demonstrate consciousness of guilt on the part of the defendant, guilt being the ultimate material issue

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/23858915/detail.html

I'm not trying to be snarky, but it seems as though like the defense, you also don't fully understand the State's argument. If I am wrong about this thenm I apologize
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Its okay, I have read it several times and understand it completely. The problem is that they are coupling Ca's hearsay with Kc's statements to show this progression. IMO Wouldn't it be nice if we could simply take everyones hearsay and pick and choose to fit the story to our liking. This is why hearsay is not allowed. You can whisper something to a child in the first row and have him pass it on to the next child and by the time it gets to the last child the story will be changed. It is proven over and over again. Hearsay is very dangerous stuff. IMO So if the state wants to pick a little hearsay here and little statement there and put it together and voila!!! Shows weakness to me. IMO You have Kc's statements. She is the last one to have seen Caylee alive. Why do you need Ca's confusion in this whole mix? This is the kind of thing that can cause reasonable doubt. IMO The state should keep it simple. IMO

Ps, I am aware that Az said that anything said to another person by the defendant herself is not considered hearsay. IMO Yet the state goes for the excited utterance. so something is up. IMO
 
Purple Iris said:
Yeah, Cindy Anthony is capable of going off in any direction, and truethfully, I don't think that anyone would be surprised at how she reacts anymore.
She can be a loose canon, that's for sure.

I hoping for a "hot mess", just to see and hear Judge Perry put the brakes on her frieght train from Hell, and to see her stunned reaction and the gum flop out of her gapping her mouth when she realizes that she has been had.

And, then, to see Casey making her little "frush-strated face", George with his pouty, arching eyebrows, and Lee.......well, snicker.
Click to expand...

BBM

"hot mess" OMG! Lol! As awful as it is, that's what I'm hoping for, too! Hahaha!
 
chefmom said:
Respectfully snipped and BBM

I agree with you on this dynamic about the vortex of lies that surrounds this family. Well, at least CA and KC. I do believe that CA had an extremely unrealistic expectation from everyone in that house. And, I'm sure nothing was ever good enough, or done properly, or up to par for CA. What kills me, though, is the extent of the lies, and the continuation and perpetuation by CA of what is clearly a lie. Take the pregnancy, for example. CA is a nurse, and yet she believed KC when she said she wasn't pregnant? I don't buy it. I think CA may very well have known, and even been the one to start the "female problems" lie, and KC just went along with it. IMO, if it comes to the mitigation stage, CA is going to be KC's best chance for a more lenient sentence due to what was clearly an emotionally abusive relationship.
Click to expand...

You bet she knew.

And, I bet that she counted the pads/tampons each month. She would have been the one buying them.

Casey spoke of adoption, via KioMarie ~
If Casey had not wanted Caylee to begin with, why didn't she just go to Planned Parenthood and have an abortion?
She could have just as easily given the guy of the week the bad news, requested the cash, or, stolen like it she had no doubt had in the past.

But we are to believe that no one knew that Casey was pregnant until a couple of months before she had Caylee?
Yet, there were ultra sound pictures, framed on the wall for an Exclusive for Holly B of FOX news, that IMO, did not look like a 7 month fetus to me.

But, yes, I believe that Cindy and George both knew, long before anyone admitted to it.
 
Cat13067 said:
Why would KC be emotional!!! Seriously Her daughter is gone, and she becomes less emotional as time goes by because she has had time to accept the loss of her daughter. It makes no sense!!! Most mothers would have gone insane knowing their child is missing/kidnapped. As a matter of fact most mothers would have called LE as soon as they went to the baby sitters home, and found an empty apartment. Do you see how this is going to play out to a jury? The jury is made up of those mother's, and father's who would have contacted LE ASAP.
Click to expand...

Well, when I look at the way she was raised, it does not surprise me that she did not follow the proper protocol and call 911 as Ca did.IMO I don't really think it has been established when Kc realized that Caylee was missing. IMO I don't believe she ever did. IMO If the state has proof that Kc killed her daughter a month earlier, then all this is mute. IMO I just do not believe they have proof. IMO I think the jury will find out how Kc was raised and how she lived her life, and have a much better understanding as to why she did not call 911. IMO
 
notthatsmart said:
IIRC, the state is using the excited utterance. Is the excited utterance out now? I thought they needed the excited utterance to get pass the hearsay law. IMO Did something change in the last month? I am well aware of Ldb trying to use Ca's hearsay coupled with Kc statement to try to show a conciousness of guilt, however they need to get pass the hearsay law. Correct?

Without the excited utterance, it is simply an interview by a 911 agent. IMO Gosh, we have been over this a million times. I believe the Judge will rule in favor of the state. IMO Ldb will get her 911 call,IMO but not so sure the Jury is going to fall for this conscienous of guilt to prove premeditated murder. IMO
If I were on the a jury , and the state was using hearsay approved by the Judge, to prove premeditated murder, my hinky meter would be raised. Why is this he said she said stuff being used if you have proof. IMO
Click to expand...
Let's start with consciousness of guilt. You should have heard CM's last press conference. Even he's not sure what the State intends on doing with the 911 calls.
 
Purple Iris said:
You bet she knew.

And, I bet that she counted the pads/tampons each month. She would have been the one buying them.

Casey spoke of adoption, via KioMarie ~
If Casey had not wanted Caylee to begin with, why didn't she just go to Planned Parenthood and have an abortion?
She could have just as easily given the guy of the week the bad news, requested the cash, or, stolen like it she had no doubt had in the past.

But we are to believe that no one knew that Casey was pregnant until a couple of months before she had Caylee?
Yet, there were ultra sound pictures, framed on the wall for an Exclusive for Holly B of FOX news, that IMO, did not look like a 7 month fetus to me.

But, yes, I believe that Cindy and George both knew, long before anyone admitted to it.
Click to expand...

ITA! And yet CA was able to look her brother in the eye and say that KC wasn't pregnant. I think when CA is questioned, both the jury and HHJP will see exactly where KC learned to be such a "diabolical" liar. JMO
 
notthatsmart said:
Well, when I look at the way she was raised, it does not surprise me that she did not follow the proper protocol and call 911 as Ca did.IMO I don't really think it has been established when Kc realized that Caylee was missing. IMO I don't believe she ever did. IMO If the state has proof that Kc killed her daughter a month earlier, then all this is mute. IMO I just do not believe they have proof. IMO I think the jury will find out how Kc was raised and how she lived her life, and have a much better understanding as to why she did not call 911. IMO
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...and partied? What an uphill battle they have going for 'em!
 
notthatsmart said:
Well, when I look at the way she was raised, it does not surprise me that she did not follow the proper protocol and call 911 as Ca did.IMO I don't really think it has been established when Kc realized that Caylee was missing. IMO I don't believe she ever did. IMO If the state has proof that Kc killed her daughter a month earlier, then all this is mute. IMO I just do not believe they have proof. IMO I think the jury will find out how Kc was raised and how she lived her life, and have a much better understanding as to why she did not call 911. IMO
Click to expand...

That may be the problem. You need to get pass how she was raised. Being raised by a domineering mother, and a father who can't hold down a job, does not make a murderer. IMO
 
chefmom said:
ITA! And yet CA was able to look her brother in the eye and say that KC wasn't pregnant. I think when CA is questioned, both the jury and HHJP will see exactly where KC learned to be such a "diabolical" liar. JMO
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And, prior to the pregancy, led the entire family on both sides to believe that Casey was a high school graduate.
Complete with gifts, cards with money no doubt and cake to boot.
Talk about putting on appearances, or shall we say, "The Ritz", as in crab cakes.

What a twisted, warped world they live in, and remain in to this day.

Well, I'm out of here for the night ~
Enjoyed the chatting tonight ~!

Sleep well everyone, and have a safe weekend.
 
notthatsmart said:
Its okay, I have read it several times and understand it completely. The problem is that they are coupling Ca's hearsay with Kc's statements to show this progression. IMO Wouldn't it be nice if we could simply take everyones hearsay and pick and choose to fit the story to our liking. This is why hearsay is not allowed. You can whisper something to a child in the first row and have him pass it on to the next child and by the time it gets to the last child the story will be changed. It is proven over and over again. Hearsay is very dangerous stuff. IMO So if the state wants to pick a little hearsay here and little statement there and put it together and voila!!! Shows weakness to me. IMO You have Kc's statements. She is the last one to have seen Caylee alive. Why do you need Ca's confusion in this whole mix? This is the kind of thing that can cause reasonable doubt. IMO The state should keep it simple. IMO

Ps, I am aware that Az said that anything said to another person by the defendant herself is not considered hearsay. IMO Yet the state goes for the excited utterance. so something is up. IMO
Click to expand...
I think I am misunderstanding your post..?
The hearsay issue in my opinion is moot point, because like you said AZ pointed out, something said to another person by the defendant herself isn't hearsay. Why would it be hinky that the State is going with the excited utterance amongst other things?
Am I way off base as to what you're saying?
Regardless, I need to re-read the State's motion re: 911 calls when I'm a little less tired and delirious.

ETA: Gnight Purple Iris! I'm outta here too. Nite all.
 
notthatsmart said:
Well, when I look at the way she was raised, it does not surprise me that she did not follow the proper protocol and call 911 as Ca did.IMO I don't really think it has been established when Kc realized that Caylee was missing. IMO I don't believe she ever did. IMO If the state has proof that Kc killed her daughter a month earlier, then all this is mute. IMO I just do not believe they have proof. IMO I think the jury will find out how Kc was raised and how she lived her life, and have a much better understanding as to why she did not call 911. IMO
Click to expand...

She didn't call 911 because she went to "her neutral, safe place", her boyfriend of the month.

She didn't tell her mother, because she was afraid to, as told by her mouth to LE while she sat primping herself.
She lied for a month because she knew, whatever it was that happened, it was wrong and she was in a heap of trouble and had finally went over the ledge.
But her lies had always gotton her through before, so what the hell, for old times sake, lets just wing it one more time and see what happens.
Worst case scenerio, she knew her mother always cleaned up after her mess's anyway, so, let her fix this when the time comes if she is so hell bent on raising hell and making trouble.
She'll have her trouble, and, eat her words in the end, in Casey's mind.

The damage was done already, whatever it was that caused Caylee's death, so, oh well.......qui sa ra, sa ra, or, as in Casey's eyes, "Case of rum, case of rum".
 
notthatsmart said:
Its okay, I have read it several times and understand it completely. The problem is that they are coupling Ca's hearsay with Kc's statements to show this progression. IMO Wouldn't it be nice if we could simply take everyones hearsay and pick and choose to fit the story to our liking. This is why hearsay is not allowed. You can whisper something to a child in the first row and have him pass it on to the next child and by the time it gets to the last child the story will be changed. It is proven over and over again. Hearsay is very dangerous stuff. IMO So if the state wants to pick a little hearsay here and little statement there and put it together and voila!!! Shows weakness to me. IMO You have Kc's statements. She is the last one to have seen Caylee alive. Why do you need Ca's confusion in this whole mix? This is the kind of thing that can cause reasonable doubt. IMO The state should keep it simple. IMO

Ps, I am aware that Az said that anything said to another person by the defendant herself is not considered hearsay. IMO Yet the state goes for the excited utterance. so something is up. IMO
Click to expand...
Read it a little more closely...

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/23858915/detail.html

I just did again...and see that there are also non-hearsay statutes that are applicable (p.8)
 
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